Another UF vs. FSU thread

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: Another UF vs. FSU thread

Postby FeelTheHeat » Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:55 pm

Also, going to FSU means constantly having to prove you compare to big brother 8)

mrwarre85
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Re: Another UF vs. FSU thread

Postby mrwarre85 » Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:09 pm

FeelTheHeat wrote:
Ok, now continue going down the list. Where is William & Mary located? UGA? Washington and Lee?


Again, you are assuming too much.

FeelTheHeat wrote:You are making Tally to be this throbbing, huge economy bursting with opportunities.


No. I, nor anyone else on this thread has said anything like that. I said Tally was "dirty." Scarecrow.

FeelTheHeat wrote:I'm guessing FIU will be passing both UF and FSU due to it's location sometime in the future.


Again, assuming too much.

FeelTheHeat wrote:Furthermore, you keep making FSU out to be new and it's not.. It's been around for half a century.


That is young, even if you round up and say it like that.

FeelTheHeat wrote:But those that choose FSU over UF when the prices are equal are few and far between, and in many cases you'll find students will have passed up considerable scholarships to the former to be a Gator.


In the past, definitely true. Now, maybe true to a lesser extent--who knows?. However, you are still missing my point. Just because something is a benefit doesn't mean that it is the only thing you can consider.

FeelTheHeat wrote:Also, please respond to my other points. There is a larger, more rabid and successful alumni base who has a reputation for preferring their own. While the percentage of jobs are the same, the salary numbers indicate UF grads make a greater amount than FSU, both from USNews and LST. I still don't get the location talk given that Tally isn't Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, Tampa, or even Jacksonville, but if that's what interests you than go with Christ, my man.


Yes, UF has a benefit here with the alumni. Just because something is a benefit doesn't mean that it is the only thing you can consider. No, there is no real evidence that top 10% at UF gets paid more than top 10% at FSU, as there are too many variables out there (government self selection for one). However, I didn't say anything about FSU being a better financial decision or even a better school, so I don't know what this "evidence" you are stating is refuting.

Look, I'm not going to go to FSU or any FL school, but you are being entirely irrational. What I said was that FSU has a benefit from its location and it has used it to completely catch up with UF in the rankings in a short amount of time. I speculated that perhaps in thirty years FSU >>> UF in rankings. That is it. You have made a lot of assumptions and are perhaps lumping my comment in with others who have made different points or statements. I'm too lazy to scroll up and check and too lazy to confirm my suspicion that you do in fact go to UF. Have a nice day.

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: Another UF vs. FSU thread

Postby FeelTheHeat » Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:23 pm

So your points about FSU is that it's location has helped it rise in the rankings (assuming?) and that in thirty years it might be the better school. I'm the one accused of assuming. Ok, cowboy. And yes, I chose UF over FSU. Apparently in your world of logic that means I am incapable of evaluating other points and being hopelessly blind. Whatevs. Good luck in law school, broseph.

mrwarre85
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Re: Another UF vs. FSU thread

Postby mrwarre85 » Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:34 pm

FeelTheHeat wrote:So your points about FSU is that it's location has helped it rise in the rankings (assuming?) and that in thirty years it might be the better school.


Massive fail. I did assume that FSU's location helped it reach UF in the rankings in a short period of time, BUT I never said FSU might be the better school in thirty years. I think everyone would make the first assumption, your assumption that rank = quality is less popular.

FeelTheHeat wrote: I'm the one accused of assuming.



Yes, and you made assumption flaws in the last post, too.

FeelTheHeat wrote: Ok, cowboy. And yes, I chose UF over FSU. Apparently in your world of logic that means I am incapable of evaluating other points and being hopelessly blind. Whatevs. Good luck in law school, broseph.


Weird. No one asked you, and no my logic would not "mean" that. Finally, thanks.

Arredondo
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Re: Another UF vs. FSU thread

Postby Arredondo » Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:28 pm

mistergoft wrote:
Maz wrote:I'm not sure if I plan on going the environmental law or international law route


There are ARE firms in Florida that do environmental law (think Hopping Green Sams), but these jobs are few and far between.

Just fyi.


FWIW, a buddy of mine from law school (fsu) will be working at Hopping after the bar is over and another is working there this summer. They come for OCI.

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98234872348
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Re: Another UF vs. FSU thread

Postby 98234872348 » Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:15 pm

.
Last edited by 98234872348 on Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

Arredondo
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Re: Another UF vs. FSU thread

Postby Arredondo » Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:30 pm

mistergoft wrote:I interviewed with them at UF, but they didn't buy my false interest in environmental law...


hahaha, I know exactly what you mean.

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Wade LeBosh
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Re: Another UF vs. FSU thread

Postby Wade LeBosh » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:32 pm

If you're trying to practice in Florida you're gonna want to be in Miami (maybe Orlando?). UF has more prestige state wide, but UofM is the holy grail in Miami. I'm an undergrad at FSU right now and frankly Tallahassee is a hole with a crime problem even around (and on) FSU campus. The University itself is very nice though, not that that should be a consideration. Go to UF. It's a better school and in Miami UF carries WAY more cache than FSU.

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Bill Cosby
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Re: Another UF vs. FSU thread

Postby Bill Cosby » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:51 am

FeelTheHeat wrote:
mrwarre85 wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote:So Yale, Michigan, Cornell, and other places in the middle of nowhere are going to end up falling in the rankings according to your logic, correct?


No. You are assuming too much.

You are at least thinking in the right direction. Yes, Cornell and Michigan certainly have to overcome their location for a lot of candidates. Yale too, it is just that most people would go to #1 even if it was on the surface of the moon. Although all of those schools situations are complex, and have little to do withe UF/FSU debate here. For instance, Cornell can get you opportunities all over the country, maybe the world, and UF cannot. People apply to UF or FSU because they want to work in Florida, and in Florida Tallahassee >>> Gainesville for most applicants.


Ok, now continue going down the list. Where is William & Mary located? UGA? Washington and Lee? You are making Tally to be this throbbing, huge economy bursting with opportunities. I'm guessing FIU will be passing both UF and FSU due to it's location sometime in the future. Furthermore, you keep making FSU out to be new and it's not.. It's been around for half a century. Tally is an ok city, and FSU is a decent school with a good faculty and non-competitive atmosphere, whatever that means. If that interests you, then by all means go there. But those that choose FSU over UF when the prices are equal are few and far between, and in many cases you'll find students will have passed up considerable scholarships to the former to be a Gator.

Also, please respond to my other points. There is a larger, more rabid and successful alumni base who has a reputation for preferring their own. While the percentage of jobs are the same, the salary numbers indicate UF grads make a greater amount than FSU, both from USNews and LST. I still don't get the location talk given that Tally isn't Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, Tampa, or even Jacksonville, but if that's what interests you than go with Christ, my man.


Half a century is pretty new in terms of law schools. The only younger T1 school is Cardozo.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Another UF vs. FSU thread

Postby ResolutePear » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:11 am

UF for tax law.

Otherwise, it doesn't matter much.

The Miami is so horrible, there are lawyers getting out of UM(that is supposed to have great connections to Miami firms) and making 12 bucks an hour as a firm clerk.

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: Another UF vs. FSU thread

Postby FeelTheHeat » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:22 am

Bill Cosby wrote:
Half a century is pretty new in terms of law schools. The only younger T1 school is Cardozo.


Fair point, didn't know that.

FSUAlumniAtlanta
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Re: Another UF vs. FSU thread

Postby FSUAlumniAtlanta » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:15 pm

All else being equal (i.e., money), they are identical, for now.

Regarding statements about UF and their "prestige": Most importantly, to the extent it is viewed as such, it will not matter in terms of your job prospects -- what matters (at both, and most all schools) is your grades. For both schools, top 25% opens lots of doors to great opportunities; bottom 75% you are at risk during a bad economy. Don't believe propaganda such as "our strong base helps lands jobs" -- only grades and being protactive lands jobs. And by proactive, I mean applying and networking with everyone, not alumni base. Second, my experience (subjective) is that out of state no one cares if you are from UF or FSU -- they are the same in terms of "prestige." In Florida, only UF alumni tout UF as the most prestigous - which of course they always will, even if FSU eclipses them on rankings.

Regarding statements about FSU and their "rising" in the rankings: I suspect that FSU and UF will both be between 40-50 in the rankings for the next decade (which is what matters for you). Who will have the slightly higher rankings, who knows, although I suspect UF will at least for a few more years. To what extent this matters, see prior paragraph.

All in all, I would not base the decision on any factor other than what school you feel more comfortable. They are both great schools and you have done well to get accepted to both.

Best of luck.

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Bless
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Re: Another UF vs. FSU thread

Postby Bless » Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:54 pm

FeelTheHeat.................................... :?



Anyway, OP, I think you should go wherever you will be happiest.

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quixotical
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Re: Another UF vs. FSU thread

Postby quixotical » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:08 pm

FSUAlumniAtlanta wrote: Second, my experience (subjective) is that out of state no one cares if you are from UF or FSU -- they are the same in terms of "prestige." In Florida, only UF alumni tout UF as the most prestigous - which of course they always will, even if FSU eclipses them on rankings.


I'm not a UF alum, and I still "tout" UF as the most prestigious law school in FL.

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: Another UF vs. FSU thread

Postby FeelTheHeat » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:25 pm

quixotical wrote:
FSUAlumniAtlanta wrote: Second, my experience (subjective) is that out of state no one cares if you are from UF or FSU -- they are the same in terms of "prestige." In Florida, only UF alumni tout UF as the most prestigous - which of course they always will, even if FSU eclipses them on rankings.


I'm not a UF alum, and I still "tout" UF as the most prestigious law school in FL.


In my experience, most do.

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Re: Another UF vs. FSU thread

Postby FSUAlumniAtlanta » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:27 am

quixotical wrote:
FSUAlumniAtlanta wrote: Second, my experience (subjective) is that out of state no one cares if you are from UF or FSU -- they are the same in terms of "prestige." In Florida, only UF alumni tout UF as the most prestigous - which of course they always will, even if FSU eclipses them on rankings.


I'm not a UF alum, and I still "tout" UF as the most prestigious law school in FL.


"I'm not a UF alum..." - sure you're not.

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: Another UF vs. FSU thread

Postby FeelTheHeat » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:51 am

Throughout my legal experiences UF is consistently portrayed as the best school in Florida. The salary numbers also back up my argument. I dont think the difference is as pronounced as some would have it, but it's there.

EricBerry
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Re: Another UF vs. FSU thread

Postby EricBerry » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:45 pm

Future FSU 1L here. My opinion may be biased (no more so than Feeltheheat), but I can confidently say that the only area where UF has a significant advantage over FSU is in perception. I think that will change with time as newer generations replace the old guard in the legal community. Lay prestige will probably always be with UF. As far as the quality of education goes, I get the feeling that FSU is equal if not better than UF when you consider the quality of the faculty and the experiential opportunities, guest lecturers, etc. that you get from being located in the state capitol.

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: Another UF vs. FSU thread

Postby FeelTheHeat » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:00 pm

I know I don't speak for everyone, but I could care less about quality of education. Most of whatever that is won't be remembered, and all I'm concerned about is what my grades will be and how that will translate to getting a job that pays me well. Quality of education isn't that different between Harvard or Vandy or FSU or UF or whatever. Furthermore, given that we aren't sitting in each other's classes, it is an utterly inexact and silly thing to try to quantify.

And Berry, you might have different numbers, but all that I've seen indicates UF grads get the considerably (~20k/year starting) better jobs, so I would consider that a substantial difference.

The lay prestige will always be relevant, I feel, given the substantial gap between the two undergrads.

They are the two best school in Florida. But there is a reason a good number of applicants, including myself, passed up a considerable amount of cash to go to UF or pursue other options. You can think we are all wrong, and you are certainly entitled to it, but I believe the numbers show it will be a wise financial decision.

ETA: I'm not saying those who passed up scholarships necessarily made the right choice. My point is that costs being even and barring a severe disdain for Gainesville, UF is the right choice for most.

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Bill Cosby
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Re: Another UF vs. FSU thread

Postby Bill Cosby » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:10 pm

EricBerry wrote:Future FSU 1L here. My opinion may be biased (no more so than Feeltheheat), but I can confidently say that the only area where UF has a significant advantage over FSU is in perception. I think that will change with time as newer generations replace the old guard in the legal community. Lay prestige will probably always be with UF. As far as the quality of education goes, I get the feeling that FSU is equal if not better than UF when you consider the quality of the faculty and the experiential opportunities, guest lecturers, etc. that you get from being located in the state capitol.


I agree with most of your post, but I don't agree with this whole changing of the guard thing. It's true, but it's going to really relevant for people graduating in 10-15 years. It's not going to matter for our class.

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Re: Another UF vs. FSU thread

Postby EricBerry » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:45 pm

FeelTheHeat wrote:I know I don't speak for everyone, but I could care less about quality of education. Most of whatever that is won't be remembered, and all I'm concerned about is what my grades will be and how that will translate to getting a job that pays me well. Quality of education isn't that different between Harvard or Vandy or FSU or UF or whatever. Furthermore, given that we aren't sitting in each other's classes, it is an utterly inexact and silly thing to try to quantify.

And Berry, you might have different numbers, but all that I've seen indicates UF grads get the considerably (~20k/year starting) better jobs, so I would consider that a substantial difference.

The lay prestige will always be relevant, I feel, given the substantial gap between the two undergrads.

They are the two best school in Florida. But there is a reason a good number of applicants, including myself, passed up a considerable amount of cash to go to UF or pursue other options. You can think we are all wrong, and you are certainly entitled to it, but I believe the numbers show it will be a wise financial decision.

ETA: I'm not saying those who passed up scholarships necessarily made the right choice. My point is that costs being even and barring a severe disdain for Gainesville, UF is the right choice for most.


I probably should have been more clear. I was implying that UF's superior reputation, whether warranted or not in this day and age, does spill over into the job hunt to a certain extent. At the same time, I believe that a larger number of FSU grads self-select into public sector work. So the starting salary gap for UF and FSU students (who end up in private practice) probably isn't as wide as the number you're citing. Just my two cents. I didn't apply to UF so I never did an in-depth comparison. Luckily, this debate isn't relevant to me because I'll be practicing in my home state where UF vs. FSU means nothing. I'll let you guys slug it out.

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Re: Another UF vs. FSU thread

Postby FSUAlumniAtlanta » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:51 pm

Before delving into the pissing contest, once again please note: top 25% from FSU or UF opens up same doors; bottom 75% at both schools equals risky for kid saddled with debt during bad economy. Employers who comb through resumes and see FSU and UF have the same mental (and sometimes, official) rankings cut-off for consideration.

Now for pissing contest:
For 2005, UF was ranked 43; FSU was ranked 67. There were TWENTY-THREE schools between them.
For 2012, UF was ranked 47 (tied for last spot); FSU was ranked 50. There was ONE school between them.

That's alot of movement in only 7 years. Given the the trend, I don't blame UF law students and alumni touting there reputation at every turn - it's not clear they will still be able to much longer and its all they have left to set them apart from FSU - o yea, and of course ONE school in the rankings.

FeeltheHeat: if you (or anyone) turned down "considerable" cash for UF over FSU (in the last 3 years) the decision was either: motivated by something other than law school (family, football, friends, etc), financially dumb, or a lie.

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Barbie
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Re: Another UF vs. FSU thread

Postby Barbie » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:56 pm

1. MAKE A POLL

2. GO TO FSU

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quixotical
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Re: Another UF vs. FSU thread

Postby quixotical » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:59 pm

FSUAlumniAtlanta wrote:
quixotical wrote:
FSUAlumniAtlanta wrote: Second, my experience (subjective) is that out of state no one cares if you are from UF or FSU -- they are the same in terms of "prestige." In Florida, only UF alumni tout UF as the most prestigous - which of course they always will, even if FSU eclipses them on rankings.


I'm not a UF alum, and I still "tout" UF as the most prestigious law school in FL.


"I'm not a UF alum..." - sure you're not.


With the scholarship offer I had from UF for UG, I would have made money had I enrolled. So I can say, quite literally, that you couldn't pay me to be a Gator. 8)

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: Another UF vs. FSU thread

Postby FeelTheHeat » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:13 pm

FSUAlumniAtlanta wrote:Before delving into the pissing contest, once again please note: top 25% from FSU or UF opens up same doors; bottom 75% at both schools equals risky for kid saddled with debt during bad economy. Employers who comb through resumes and see FSU and UF have the same mental (and sometimes, official) rankings cut-off for consideration.


I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say you have insider information to the hiring practices of the industry. This statement would be fair, seeing as how around the same percentages of graduates get jobs.

FSUAlumniAtlanta wrote:Now for pissing contest:
For 2005, UF was ranked 43; FSU was ranked 67. There were TWENTY-THREE schools between them.
For 2012, UF was ranked 47 (tied for last spot); FSU was ranked 50. There was ONE school between them.

That's alot of movement in only 7 years. Given the the trend, I don't blame UF law students and alumni touting there reputation at every turn - it's not clear they will still be able to much longer and its all they have left to set them apart from FSU - o yea, and of course ONE school in the rankings.


Where to begin? Your argument has consisted of rankings that have Indiana-Bloomington ahead of Emory, William and Mary, and Illinois. There is a practice of buying students that FSU actively engages in, evidenced by the numerous scholarships documented by users of this site throughout the course of the cycle. If you want to say the sample size isn't representative, that is fine, but research and actively participating on these boards the past year has indicated that a SUBSTANTIAL amount of applicants who received money from FSU did not get any from UF. Also, if you are going to get into a pissing contest, make sure your stream is actually longer. The rankings are extremely malleable; UM just dropped 17 spots in them; not to say it will happen to FSU, but given the fluidity of these rankings and how easily they are gamed, I believe it would be prudent to use other facts to support your argument. Like...salaries?

FSUAlumniAtlanta wrote:FeeltheHeat: if you (or anyone) turned down "considerable" cash for UF over FSU (in the last 3 years) the decision was either: motivated by something other than law school (family, football, friends, etc), financially dumb, or a lie.


For beginners, PM me an e-mail and I'll send a copy of my scholarship, bare white ass, or both. I haven't decided, given that we have resorted to calling those on the other end of the argument liars. My decision was certainly motivated by family. They work in the legal field and reinforced the fact that the combination of alumni size and preference for their own went a long way towards finding jobs in south Florida, which is where I wish to work. Thus, let us go to your final consideration, which was financial idiocy.

--LinkRemoved--

FSU Class of 2009

Out of the 35% that have reported,

7% indicate a salary greater than $90,000

7% indicate a salary between $70,000 and $90,000

7% indicate a salary between $60,000 and $70,000

7% indicate a salary less than $60,000.

--LinkRemoved--

FSU Class of 2008

Out of the 30% that have reported,

6.8% indicate a salary greater than $105,000

6.8% indicate a salary between $70,000 and $105,000

6.8% indicate a salary between $58,000 and $70,000.

6.8% indicate a salary less than $58,000.

US News and World Report pegs their most recent salary numbers at $60k-$70k-90k.

Now, Florida.

--LinkRemoved--

UF Class of 2009

Out of the 46% that have reported,

7.6% indicate a salary greater than $135,000.

7.6% indicate a salary between $100,000 and $135,000.

7.6% indicate a salary between $70,000 and $100,000.

7.6% indicate a salary less than $70,000.

--LinkRemoved--

UF Class of 2008

Out of the FIFTY EIGHT PERCENT that have reported,

13% indicate a salary greater than $130,000.

13% indicate a salary between $85,000 and $130,000.

13% indicate a salary between $70,000 and $85,000.

13% indicate a salary less than $70,000.



Also, 2.8% and 3.2% respectively from UF are in an Article III Clerkship, while 1% and 0.4% respectively for FSU.

Finally, USNews pegs UF's most recent salary numbers at $70k-$100k-$135k.

Interestingly enough for your pissing contest, FSU's numbers actually saw a slight dip while UF's rises. But keep touting the rankings. They mean a lot when paying off your loans.

Now, I have demonstrated that UF presents a significant advantage when it comes to the compensation of the work graduates receive. I go to school to make money. Might I also add you questioned my financial senses. It would appear that, adhering to the information presented, I will compensate for my scholarship with my degree from UF in a single year. You may extrapolate the rest. If you are going to question my decision through insults or appealing to trivial reasons, please proceed in the way of actual facts. Thank you.
Last edited by FeelTheHeat on Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.




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