Convince me out of going to Fordham at sticker.

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bk1
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Re: Convince me out of going to Fordham at sticker.

Postby bk1 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:47 pm

Lolek wrote:The consensus here seems to be that if you do not score in OCI (with around a 15% chance) you are going to do shitlaw. The thought of possibly getting a good job after OCI doesn't even come into the discussion, therefore, it is automatically concluded that you have made a terrible financial choice by attempting to go to Fordham at sticker. On what basis do you judge one's entire future on a small interviewing window while that individual is at school? I realize it is a big deal, but is it your only shot?

I'm just saying, if the prospects are that bad at Fordham to securing a well paying job...what's the point of even going anywhere lower with scholarships? You might as well not waste those 3 years and earn yourself 90k (if we assume you're working on a 30k salary). You'll wind up with a similar paying job, right?


Shitlaw is pejorative and "good job" is relative. So I'm just gonna assume that by "good job" you mean something that pays six figures starting... There are some that argue that a strong regional school is worth it at sticker based on the belief that lifetime earnings go up compared to not getting a JD at all, but I'm not so convinced of that. There are tons of small firm attorneys who have worked for decades that are still not making six figures and I would bet this is pretty close to the norm for your average attorney.

I actually agree that going to lower schools even on a large scholarship is pretty risky. At least 1/3 of graduates each year don't find a job and those grads mainly come from the bottom meaning that the lower you go the less chance you have of actually ending up as a full time lawyer. The question is whether it is less risky than paying more for a better school and the answer to that comes down to the schools in question.

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bk1
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Re: Convince me out of going to Fordham at sticker.

Postby bk1 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:49 pm

NYC Law wrote:Pre-JD: Likely working retail, 0% chance of making >50k
JD: Debt, possibly working retail, 20-40% chance of making >140k, most likely making at least $60k out of school


You're exaggerating how bad BA's have it and, ime, that tends to be a problem on TLS (and maybe other places too).

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NYC Law
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Re: Convince me out of going to Fordham at sticker.

Postby NYC Law » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:54 pm

bk1 wrote:
NYC Law wrote:Pre-JD: Likely working retail, 0% chance of making >50k
JD: Debt, possibly working retail, 20-40% chance of making >140k, most likely making at least $60k out of school


You're exaggerating how bad BA's have it and, ime, that tends to be a problem on TLS (and maybe other places too).


In FL the average BA starting salary is about $28-30k.
A Bachelors doesn't mean shit anymore.

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bk1
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Re: Convince me out of going to Fordham at sticker.

Postby bk1 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:55 pm

NYC Law wrote:
bk1 wrote:
NYC Law wrote:Pre-JD: Likely working retail, 0% chance of making >50k
JD: Debt, possibly working retail, 20-40% chance of making >140k, most likely making at least $60k out of school


You're exaggerating how bad BA's have it and, ime, that tends to be a problem on TLS (and maybe other places too).


In FL the average BA starting salary is about $28-30k.
A Bachelors doesn't mean shit anymore.


So 28-30k starting = 0% chance of >50k? How does that work?

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Lolek
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Re: Convince me out of going to Fordham at sticker.

Postby Lolek » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:59 pm

bk1 wrote:
Shitlaw is pejorative and "good job" is relative. So I'm just gonna assume that by "good job" you mean something that pays six figures starting... There are some that argue that a strong regional school is worth it at sticker based on the belief that lifetime earnings go up compared to not getting a JD at all, but I'm not so convinced of that. There are tons of small firm attorneys who have worked for decades that are still not making six figures and I would bet this is pretty close to the norm for your average attorney.

I actually agree that going to lower schools even on a large scholarship is pretty risky. At least 1/3 of graduates each year don't find a job and those grads mainly come from the bottom meaning that the lower you go the less chance you have of actually ending up as a full time lawyer. The question is whether it is less risky than paying more for a better school and the answer to that comes down to the schools in question.


I agree, I am referring to a six figure salary.

If we look at a lifetime scale, and not just the prospect of chancing everything on OCI, a Fordham degree will carry you a long way. Even if you are not one of the people who get BigLaw from the start, it is something within reach ever after. Your degree from there will carry you. I think that's a safe thing to say if you're bent on working in the city.

IMO, besides NYU and Columbia, Fordham is the only school one should consider if you're planning on trying to "make it" in the city. Fordham only has those two to go up against if we're talking about city schools, the rest of them continue a much higher ladder climb especially due to the considerable gap apparent between Fordham and a school like Dozo or Brooklyn.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Convince me out of going to Fordham at sticker.

Postby Helmholtz » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:00 pm

Lolek wrote:IMO, besides NYU and Columbia, Fordham is the only school one should consider if you're planning on trying to "make it" in the city.


what

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Lolek
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Re: Convince me out of going to Fordham at sticker.

Postby Lolek » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:01 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
Lolek wrote:IMO, besides NYU and Columbia, Fordham is the only school one should consider if you're planning on trying to "make it" in the city.


what


Ninja edit fail, grrr.

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bk1
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Re: Convince me out of going to Fordham at sticker.

Postby bk1 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:01 pm

Lolek wrote:If we look at a lifetime scale, and not just the prospect of chancing everything on OCI, a Fordham degree will carry you a long way. Even if you are not one of the people who get BigLaw from the start, it is something within reach ever after. Your degree from there will carry you. I think that's a safe thing to say if you're bent on working in the city.

IMO, besides NYU and Columbia, Fordham is the only school one should consider if you're planning on trying to "make it" in the city. Fordham only has those two to go up against, the rest of them continue a much higher ladder climb especially due to the considerable gap apparent between Fordham and a school like Dozo or Brooklyn.


Do you have data for this lifetime scale? Not only that but it is completely wrong to say that biglaw is forever within reach if you don't get it at OCI.

And let's just point out that there are 12 schools other than NYU/Columbia that are a better idea for trying "make it" in NYC than Fordham.

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Lolek
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Re: Convince me out of going to Fordham at sticker.

Postby Lolek » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:04 pm

bk1 wrote:
Lolek wrote:If we look at a lifetime scale, and not just the prospect of chancing everything on OCI, a Fordham degree will carry you a long way. Even if you are not one of the people who get BigLaw from the start, it is something within reach ever after. Your degree from there will carry you. I think that's a safe thing to say if you're bent on working in the city.

IMO, besides NYU and Columbia, Fordham is the only school one should consider if you're planning on trying to "make it" in the city. Fordham only has those two to go up against, the rest of them continue a much higher ladder climb especially due to the considerable gap apparent between Fordham and a school like Dozo or Brooklyn.


Do you have data for this lifetime scale? Not only that but it is completely wrong to say that biglaw is forever within reach if you don't get it at OCI.

And let's just point out that there are 12 schools other than NYU/Columbia that are a better idea for trying "make it" in NYC than Fordham.


I've seen it mentioned around here a few times that Fordham's alumni network in the city is comparable to NYU's. Correct me if that's completely off-base.

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bk1
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Re: Convince me out of going to Fordham at sticker.

Postby bk1 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:05 pm

Lolek wrote:I've seen it mentioned around here a few times that Fordham's alumni network in the city is comparable to NYU's. Correct me if that's completely off-base.


Comparable in what way?

MrAnon
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Re: Convince me out of going to Fordham at sticker.

Postby MrAnon » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:08 pm

Fordham's alumni are only as prestigious as Fordham. The school has many graduates, but most of those graduates are not in biglaw. So you think the graduate base case help you? How precisely? They work in firms that don't generate as much profit, and are smaller with fewer openings.
Last edited by MrAnon on Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lolek
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Re: Convince me out of going to Fordham at sticker.

Postby Lolek » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:08 pm

bk1 wrote:
Lolek wrote:I've seen it mentioned around here a few times that Fordham's alumni network in the city is comparable to NYU's. Correct me if that's completely off-base.


Comparable in what way?


In regards to allowing you a stronger foot in the door. Even if you don't capitalize on the opportunity.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Convince me out of going to Fordham at sticker.

Postby Helmholtz » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:11 pm

Lolek wrote:
bk1 wrote:
Lolek wrote:I've seen it mentioned around here a few times that Fordham's alumni network in the city is comparable to NYU's. Correct me if that's completely off-base.


Comparable in what way?


In regards to allowing you a stronger foot in the door. Even if you don't capitalize on the opportunity.


I'm not following. At the more elite firms or government offices, you're generally going to see at least two to three times more NYU grads than Fordham grads. How are the two alumni networks in any way comparable save for maybe the raw number of attorneys practicing in the city.

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Gecko of Doom
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Re: Convince me out of going to Fordham at sticker.

Postby Gecko of Doom » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:17 pm

Lolek wrote:
bk1 wrote:
Lolek wrote:I've seen it mentioned around here a few times that Fordham's alumni network in the city is comparable to NYU's. Correct me if that's completely off-base.


Comparable in what way?


In regards to allowing you a stronger foot in the door. Even if you don't capitalize on the opportunity.

You're saying Fordham gives you as many "foot in the door" opportunities as NYU? I find that incredibly hard to believe.

MrAnon
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Re: Convince me out of going to Fordham at sticker.

Postby MrAnon » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:32 pm

"strong alumni network" is just some jazz that the admissions office and career services office feed to students and prospectives at schools where getting a job is really hard. The people who graduated before you had the same lousy job prospects and now your just another one of them.

People at Harvard dont fret about finding another Harvard person to send their resume to.

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rayiner
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Re: Convince me out of going to Fordham at sticker.

Postby rayiner » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:46 am

Lolek wrote:
bk1 wrote:
Lolek wrote:I've seen it mentioned around here a few times that Fordham's alumni network in the city is comparable to NYU's. Correct me if that's completely off-base.


Comparable in what way?


In regards to allowing you a stronger foot in the door. Even if you don't capitalize on the opportunity.


At S&C, there are 10 Fordham people and 68 NYU people.




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