Fordham(Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law 52k per year Scholarship

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Avon Barksdale
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Fordham(Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law 52k per year Scholarship

Postby Avon Barksdale » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:14 pm

Hey everyone,

So the title is pretty self explanatory but here is some background info. Tuition at BLS is roughly 48k so i'd have an additional 4k to play around with for commuting expenses. Top 40% stip. Fordham would be sticker PLUS a pain commute. I know a few alums from both of these schools. I am not absolutely dead set on big law, but am definitely intrigued by it.

Thoughts?

Avon Barksdale
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Re: Fordham(Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law 52k per year Scholarship

Postby Avon Barksdale » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:25 pm

I really am incredibly conflicted over this.

Danteshek
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Re: Fordham(Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law 52k per year Scholarship

Postby Danteshek » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:26 pm

Take the money.

stuckinparadise
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Re: Fordham(Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law 52k per year Scholarship

Postby stuckinparadise » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:26 pm

Hellva good problem to have...

Sleep on it, talk to family and friends. I don't think you can make a wrong decision. JMO.

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bk1
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Re: Fordham(Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law 52k per year Scholarship

Postby bk1 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:41 pm

I'd say take the money, but these are both incredibly risky options. On the one hand you have a very high chance of losing your scholarship at BLS and on the other hand most of Fordham's grads aren't making enough money to justify taking out $200,000 worth of debt.

Avon Barksdale
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Re: Fordham(Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law 52k per year Scholarship

Postby Avon Barksdale » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:47 pm

bk1 wrote:I'd say take the money, but these are both incredibly risky options. On the one hand you have a very high chance of losing your scholarship at BLS and on the other hand most of Fordham's grads aren't making enough money to justify taking out $200,000 worth of debt.



I agree, although I should say that the BLS scholarship is gradually downgraded. So if i was at median I'd only lose a portion of the scholarship. Although if im at the median im F$@##$

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cinephile
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Re: Fordham(Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law 52k per year Scholarship

Postby cinephile » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:48 pm

Danteshek wrote:Take the money.

sonervous88
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Re: Fordham(Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law 52k per year Scholarship

Postby sonervous88 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:05 pm

seriously. take the money.

map1188
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Re: Fordham(Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law 52k per year Scholarship

Postby map1188 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:49 pm

I was in nearly the same situation only a year ago...take the money.

scammedhard
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Re: Fordham(Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law 52k per year Scholarship

Postby scammedhard » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:57 pm

Danteshek wrote:Take the money.

reverendt
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Re: Fordham(Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law 52k per year Scholarship

Postby reverendt » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:58 pm

cinephile wrote:
Danteshek wrote:Take the money.

Avon Barksdale
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Re: Fordham(Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law 52k per year Scholarship

Postby Avon Barksdale » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:12 pm

map1188 wrote:I was in nearly the same situation only a year ago...take the money.


thank you for the response.

I figured they may be some more bls students poking their head into this thread so i thought i might as well ask these questions and hope for some insight:

Do you have any regrets?? How is BLS? are you confident you will have a job coming out of school? Did a lot of students you know express concern over losing their scholarships?

blsingindisguise
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Re: Fordham(Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law 52k per year Scholarship

Postby blsingindisguise » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:29 pm

I took the money at BLS. It worked out well for me and for some people I know. It worked out less well for some other people I know. Yes, some lose their scholarships. Some lose part of their scholarships. And some lose part or all but then get it back by improving their grades.

If grades were random you'd have a 40% chance of graduating with virtually no debt and probably a 70% chance of graduating with a manageable debt load (assuming that even if you lose some scholarship you have a decent chance of getting it back). Obviously you should work very hard to improve those odds.

Of course BLS is still a risk. First, you can't predict your grades. Second, there's opportunity cost (btw, if you have career opportunities already at your fingertips I wouldn't really go to either of these schools right now). Third you still have living expenses. Fourth no one knows what the legal job market will be like in a few years.

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Re: Fordham(Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law 52k per year Scholarship

Postby blsingindisguise » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:33 pm

BUT, what I meant to add is that Fordham at 200K debt is a HUGE risk, and I doubt the somewhat-increased chance of a lucrative job outweighs the increased debt. Someone with more statistical ability than me should do a proper analysis of this.

summeriffic
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Re: Fordham(Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law 52k per year Scholarship

Postby summeriffic » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:45 pm

I'd say go to BLS and have less debt. I'm pretty sure if you work hard you can be in the top 40% and the job prospects from BLS are still pretty good. Also, you will be graduating with the peace of mind of not having thousands of dollars in debt.

blsingindisguise
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Re: Fordham(Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law 52k per year Scholarship

Postby blsingindisguise » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:50 pm

I have to say it's amazing that this has become the conventional wisdom. Only a few years ago it was "go to the best school you can get into, costs be damned"

map1188
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Re: Fordham(Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law 52k per year Scholarship

Postby map1188 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:50 pm

I'm very happy with my decision to take the money at BLS over some T1 schools. For me the prospect of losing about 80-90K in scholarship money over two years was really good motivation to make that 40% cut off. I would also agree that 200K at fordham is a way bigger risk. Fordham just doesn't have the kind of employment numbers to justify that amount of debt (in my opinion only NYU and Columbia are justifiable in NYC at full price).

That said the employment numbers out of BLS are bad, I don't think another word would really do them justice. But you'd be taking a calculated risk. If you got into the top 5% (top 10% at the very outside) you might have a shot at big law at BLS, and get the same salary with 1/4 of the debt you would have had at fordham (assuming living cost). And if you don't end up in the top of the class you'll still have a lot less debt and the option to take lesser paying jobs once graduation rolls around. Moreover, debt sucks, it can be life crushing and if you have the opportunity to avoid it and still do what you want to do then you should take it.

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bk1
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Re: Fordham(Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law 52k per year Scholarship

Postby bk1 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:09 pm

A couple of the above posters have said you can work hard and improve your chances of keeping your scholarship which is patently false.

blsingindisguise
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Re: Fordham(Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law 52k per year Scholarship

Postby blsingindisguise » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:13 pm

bk1 wrote:A couple of the above posters have said you can work hard and improve your chances of keeping your scholarship which is patently false.


Obviously you can't *guarantee* your scholarship through hard work (more than 40% of the class is going to "work hard") but saying it doesn't increase your chances is just batshit.

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rocon7383
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Re: Fordham(Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law 52k per year Scholarship

Postby rocon7383 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:18 pm

In nearly the exact situation. Barring an unforesoon scholarship offer from Fordham, after negotiations, I'll be at BLS

map1188
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Re: Fordham(Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law 52k per year Scholarship

Postby map1188 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:40 pm

blsingindisguise wrote:
bk1 wrote:A couple of the above posters have said you can work hard and improve your chances of keeping your scholarship which is patently false.


Obviously you can't *guarantee* your scholarship through hard work (more than 40% of the class is going to "work hard") but saying it doesn't increase your chances is just batshit.


Agree. That is batshit.

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bk1
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Re: Fordham(Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law 52k per year Scholarship

Postby bk1 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:47 pm

blsingindisguise wrote:Obviously you can't *guarantee* your scholarship through hard work (more than 40% of the class is going to "work hard") but saying it doesn't increase your chances is just batshit.

Of course working hard is going to make you more likely to keep your scholarship than not trying at all. However, it is foolish to believe you will ever have a significant advantage over what pure odds dictate.

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NYC Law
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Re: Fordham(Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law 52k per year Scholarship

Postby NYC Law » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:49 pm

Somehow I ended up with 7.5k at Fordham and 42k at BLS. Don't know how I got more at Fordham and less at BLS, but whatever. I chose Fordham.

In your situation, Brooklyn looks like a slightly better choice though, just depends on your goals though. If you're biglaw or bust then go to Fordham.

You'll need about top 5% for biglaw out of BLS, top 20-25% for Fordham.
Top 5-40% at BLS will still leave you with meh job prospects and ~$70k debt, which is still a good amount, but you'll probably be able to round up some sort of job. Below median and you're fucked, drop out.
Top 25-50% at Fordham will get you something decent, prob not biglaw though, and you'll have a ton of debt. Not the end of the world, not great though. If you get below median you'll be fucked and should probably drop out, unless you just want to stick around and try for a public sector job after your graduate to have the debt forgiven (doesn't have to be a legal job, just any job in the public sector for IBR).

IDK, it pretty much looks like a toss-up, below median at either school will leave you fucked, above median will leave you in a relatively similar situation. Your call.

My only reasoning for choosing Fordham (and why I chose it) is because you only have one shot at biglaw, may as well maximize that chance while you can.

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Re: Fordham(Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law 52k per year Scholarship

Postby blsingindisguise » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:00 pm

bk1 wrote:
blsingindisguise wrote:Obviously you can't *guarantee* your scholarship through hard work (more than 40% of the class is going to "work hard") but saying it doesn't increase your chances is just batshit.

Of course working hard is going to make you more likely to keep your scholarship than not trying at all. However, it is foolish to believe you will ever have a significant advantage over what pure odds dictate.


Well, it's foolish to go in assuming you will have any advantage, but it's wise to do everything you can to try to gain an advantage. FWIW I did know a bunch of people 1L year who had a kind of lackadaisical "this stuff is no big deal" attitude about LS. To be fair, even this group put in about as much work in LS than the biggest study nerds I knew did in UG -- the standards are different. But they had a kind of mental laziness, and it showed in their ultimate grades. I think the most important thing is not so much how many hours you put in as how committed you are to actually making sure you truly understand and can apply every nuance of what you're learning -- you let that commitment determine how much work you need to put in.

But by no means would I advocate going in thinking you'll have an advantage. In fact you have to go in deathly afraid that you'll lose your scholarship in order to motivate yourself, imo.

Avon Barksdale
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Re: Fordham(Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law 52k per year Scholarship

Postby Avon Barksdale » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:42 am

NYC Law wrote:Somehow I ended up with 7.5k at Fordham and 42k at BLS. Don't know how I got more at Fordham and less at BLS, but whatever. I chose Fordham.

In your situation, Brooklyn looks like a slightly better choice though, just depends on your goals though. If you're biglaw or bust then go to Fordham.

You'll need about top 5% for biglaw out of BLS, top 20-25% for Fordham.
Top 5-40% at BLS will still leave you with meh job prospects and ~$70k debt, which is still a good amount, but you'll probably be able to round up some sort of job. Below median and you're fucked, drop out.
Top 25-50% at Fordham will get you something decent, prob not biglaw though, and you'll have a ton of debt. Not the end of the world, not great though. If you get below median you'll be fucked and should probably drop out, unless you just want to stick around and try for a public sector job after your graduate to have the debt forgiven (doesn't have to be a legal job, just any job in the public sector for IBR).

IDK, it pretty much looks like a toss-up, below median at either school will leave you fucked, above median will leave you in a relatively similar situation. Your call.

My only reasoning for choosing Fordham (and why I chose it) is because you only have one shot at biglaw, may as well maximize that chance while you can.


i understand your point. I'll be commuting from home, though, so my debt from brooklyn over the course of three years will be less than 10k over three years instead of 75k.. (I'm 21, living with mom and pops :D ) I also have got some money saved up so I wouldn't take out any loans.




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