UGA (sticker) vs Emory ($$$) -- Need help deciding ASAP Forum

[WSJ_Law]

That's one of the really dangerous things about this website, any fool (like you for example) with no experience or basis for knowledge can just sign up and hand out advice as if they actually know what they're talking about.

Agreed. Stepping outside of this little scuffle and speaking more generally, TLS should allow users to authenticate with their law school email address and identify themselves as actual 1/2/3Ls vs. laypeople. Not a perfect solution since e-mail forgery is possible (I guess) and law school e-mail probably expires after graduation, but at least it would help to out the 0Ls, at least the outspoken ones, before they (are forced to) out themselves. Oh well.

I LOLed at the comment "I actually kinda like you", remembering the words of Old Greg: "I Like you, I'm gonna hurt you"

[mrwarre85]

Missing one question in Reading Comp and going to a top ranked school has nothing to do with why Bruce does not get laid (assuming he doesnt get laid). In fact, I would argue the whole going to a top school part would help him get laid. Im in a similar situation regarding LSAT sections (I believe at the same school) and get laid all the time. Also, you will learn that an ad hominem attack, like the one you are using, is a very ineffective argument. Even if he did never get laid and even if he were nine years old, his argument would still be valid. Did you struggle with logical reasoning?

No. His argument that there is no difference in the quality of education at Yale and at Golden Gate would never be valid. It is an opinion, and it is not shared by the majority of law students. I called him nine years old because he began attacking me like a nine year old boy, and I knew saying that would ruin his day. Let me be clear-- I understand, likely because I live with law students at a t14 and because my family is littered with lawyers, that during my 1L year I will take the same classes whether I am at Golden Gate or Yale. However, that does not = no difference in the quality of education. That is laughable.

"Much of your education comes from the intellectual and social engagement with colleagues and teachers." Dean Schwab, Cornell Law. Yeah, I guess he is a 0L newb too. Ridiculous.

He is also right about coming to the boards as a 0L and offering this kind of advice. It was nice of you to post the employment statistics because those can now be viewed and interpreted by those who know how to analyze them/what they really mean behind the numbers. Please only discuss things you have a strong knowledge in/experience with.

Yeah, it takes a 24 year old rising 2L to understand that Emory employment = UGA Employment because 14% of UGA grads get 130k and 28% of Emory grads get 145k. Good thing I posted that so you could use your incredible mathematical skills.

PS BruceWayne- Cool alts, bro.

[mrwarre85]

That's one of the really dangerous things about this website, any fool (like you for example) with no experience or basis for knowledge can just sign up and hand out advice as if they actually know what they're talking about.

Agreed. Stepping outside of this little scuffle and speaking more generally, TLS should allow users to authenticate with their law school email address and identify themselves as actual 1/2/3Ls vs. laypeople. Not a perfect solution since e-mail forgery is possible (I guess) and law school e-mail probably expires after graduation, but at least it would help to out the 0Ls, at least the outspoken ones, before they (are forced to) out themselves. Oh well.

I LOLed at the comment "I actually kinda like you", remembering the words of Old Greg: "I Like you, I'm gonna hurt you"

Ok this alt only has 12 posts. Seriously. At least you know about Old Greg.. +1.

"Wanna go to a club where people wee on eachother?"

[swinger]

I do agree that there 100% will be differences in the interactions with professors and students when comparing Yale to Golden Gate. There will be differences in interactions between UGA and Emory as well (though a significantly smaller gap in experience than Yale v. GG). The point is, as you will learn this during your 1L year, these interactions are not what most people go to law school for. They go for the potential employment, because, as it has been pointed out by the 2Ls/3Ls ITT, law school does not teach you to be a lawyer, it teaches you to think like a lawyer. You learn to be a lawyer when you get your job (the job you get because of your school). While I cherish the interactions I have had with my professors and colleagues at UVA (some of the brightest people and most engaging conversations I have ever had), they are rare. I do not discuss torts with my friends while I am at the gym. I do not talk about Property on the softball field (aside from the occasional joke that only law students find hilarious, which makes most of us law students the breed we are). Your point is made, and I agree with it, that there will be a difference in the "educational quality" as measured by the GPA/LSAT of fellow students and the alma maters of the professors, but this translates into basically zilch in the long run. This is not what people go to law school for. This is why we said that the important issue is employment. And yes, Emory statistically does better in employment by the numbers, but (and I refuse to comment here because I know nothing about the ATL/GA overall legal market, which is why I didn't jump into this thread earlier) it appears from the 2Ls who have chimed in that go to Emory/UGA/other nearby schools or are from the area that the employment prospects will be very similar. Please just leave it at this, and when you finish your 1L year I invite you to PM me and let me know if you disagree. If at the 1L year you are still thinking about the educational quality and what not based on your peers LSATS and not your employment prospects, and if you still dont understand what we mean about the two being similar as far as employment, please PM me.

[WSJ_Law]

LOL. I am new* to the site and recently chose UGA over Emory and WUSTL. aka =/= BruceWayne although flattering(?).

*referring to duration of time posting as a user, not including time spent reading (1yr)

[mrwarre85]

I do agree that there 100% will be differences in the interactions with professors and students when comparing Yale to Golden Gate. There will be differences in interactions between UGA and Emory as well (though a significantly smaller gap in experience than Yale v. GG). The point is, as you will learn this during your 1L year, these interactions are not what most people go to law school for.

Ok. Now I can have a easier time finding common ground. You are using language like "most people." This may or may not be correct, but it far more reasonable than the dude who said "law school is fools errand if you are not shooting for a top salary." This is TLS and TLS has a huge materialism/Biglaw/LOL Models n' Bottles bias that is really disturbing to us normal people who think money is a part of life, not life itself.

If you read carefully above, I never said anything that you are accusing/insinuating that I said. I just said 1. Emory has better employment 2. Emory has more lay prestige 3. Emory has a better rep with judges/lawyers. That's it. That started Bruce off (if you really aren't Bruce, can never be sure on TLS) with his OMG newb remarks.

They go for the potential employment, because, as it has been pointed out by the 2Ls/3Ls ITT, law school does not teach you to be a lawyer, it teaches you to think like a lawyer.

No disagreement. I mean, some schools today would try to disagree with that because experiential learning has becoming their marketing gig, but yeah, I agree and I never said anything to the contrary. You are assuming things.

While I cherish the interactions I have had with my professors and colleagues at UVA (some of the brightest people and most engaging conversations I have ever had), they are rare. I do not discuss torts with my friends while I am at the gym. I do not talk about Property on the softball field (aside from the occasional joke that only law students find hilarious, which makes most of us law students the breed we are).

You are really missing the fact that you will be a better lawyer because you went to UVA and not Golden Gate. Haven't you even been in a class in highschool where you didn't learn anything because everyone else was an idiot? Maybe you went to private school or something-- point is, being around people who are constantly asking questions that you already understand and are generally slowing down the class will hurt you. When you study with these people, you will be counted on to drag them along because you are smarter and more capable than they are. On the contrary, going to UVA you will be hearing things in class and from your study group that you yourself did not think of. The competition will make you better, and yes I can understand this as an 0L because it is simply common sense.

This is why we said that the important issue is employment. And yes, Emory statistically does better in employment by the numbers, but (and I refuse to comment here because I know nothing about the ATL/GA overall legal market, which is why I didn't jump into this thread earlier) it appears from the 2Ls who have chimed in that go to Emory/UGA/other nearby schools or are from the area that the employment prospects will be very similar. ]

I never said Emory would be better for GA than UGA. I said it would probably be better for Atlanta because not only is it a better school, with way better employment numbers, but it is in ATL. You are probably disputing something that I never alleged because you skimmed the thread too quickly. I also never said anything about the grade cutoffs-- I only posted the #'s which were way in Emorys favor. Period.

Please just leave it at this, and when you finish your 1L year I invite you to PM me and let me know if you disagree. If at the 1L year you are still thinking about the educational quality and what not based on your peers LSATS and not your employment prospects, and if you still dont understand what we mean about the two being similar as far as employment, please PM me.

Please leave it at this and PM me when you understand both what I have said above and what I have not said.

[swinger]

I do agree that there 100% will be differences in the interactions with professors and students when comparing Yale to Golden Gate. There will be differences in interactions between UGA and Emory as well (though a significantly smaller gap in experience than Yale v. GG). The point is, as you will learn this during your 1L year, these interactions are not what most people go to law school for.

Ok. Now I can have a easier time finding common ground. You are using language like "most people." This may or may not be correct, but it far more reasonable than the dude who said "law school is fools errand if you are not shooting for a top salary." This is TLS and TLS has a huge materialism/Biglaw/LOL Models n' Bottles bias that is really disturbing to us normal people who think money is a part of life, not life itself.

If you read carefully above, I never said anything that you are accusing/insinuating that I said. I just said 1. Emory has better employment 2. Emory has more lay prestige 3. Emory has a better rep with judges/lawyers. That's it. That started Bruce off (if you really aren't Bruce, can never be sure on TLS) with his OMG newb remarks.

They go for the potential employment, because, as it has been pointed out by the 2Ls/3Ls ITT, law school does not teach you to be a lawyer, it teaches you to think like a lawyer.

No disagreement. I mean, some schools today would try to disagree with that because experiential learning has becoming their marketing gig, but yeah, I agree and I never said anything to the contrary. You are assuming things.

While I cherish the interactions I have had with my professors and colleagues at UVA (some of the brightest people and most engaging conversations I have ever had), they are rare. I do not discuss torts with my friends while I am at the gym. I do not talk about Property on the softball field (aside from the occasional joke that only law students find hilarious, which makes most of us law students the breed we are).

You are really missing the fact that you will be a better lawyer because you went to UVA and not Golden Gate. Haven't you even been in a class in highschool where you didn't learn anything because everyone else was an idiot? Maybe you went to private school or something-- point is, being around people who are constantly asking questions that you already understand and are generally slowing down the class will hurt you. When you study with these people, you will be counted on to drag them along because you are smarter and more capable than they are. On the contrary, going to UVA you will be hearing things in class and from your study group that you yourself did not think of. The competition will make you better, and yes I can understand this as an 0L because it is simply common sense.

This is why we said that the important issue is employment. And yes, Emory statistically does better in employment by the numbers, but (and I refuse to comment here because I know nothing about the ATL/GA overall legal market, which is why I didn't jump into this thread earlier) it appears from the 2Ls who have chimed in that go to Emory/UGA/other nearby schools or are from the area that the employment prospects will be very similar. ]

I never said Emory would be better for GA than UGA. I said it would probably be better for Atlanta because not only is it a better school, with way better employment numbers, but it is in ATL. You are probably disputing something that I never alleged because you skimmed the thread too quickly. I also never said anything about the grade cutoffs-- I only posted the #'s which were way in Emorys favor. Period.

Please just leave it at this, and when you finish your 1L year I invite you to PM me and let me know if you disagree. If at the 1L year you are still thinking about the educational quality and what not based on your peers LSATS and not your employment prospects, and if you still dont understand what we mean about the two being similar as far as employment, please PM me.

Please leave it at this and PM me when you understand both what I have said above and what I have not said.

First of all, I am not brucewayne, he is in a different section. I did skim the thread because I am pretty busy at work; however, you must realize that by posting those numbers and what not, you are leaving others to make the same inferences I made. You cant just post something and then say "I didn't say [extremely reasonable inference] because I didnt ACTUALLY say it." you MEANT for your post to carry meaning behind it so people could use the data to make those assumptions, otherwise you wouldnt have posted it. i admire your argumentative nature and the fact that you stand by your convictions, but please just wait to post about these types of things until you have the experience, i really do promise that you will know what we mean by the end of your first year. you are missing many of the points. for example, ITT we compare UGA to Emory, separated by very few spots on the rankings, we are not comparing the students asking questions at GG to the students asking questions at UVA- in all likelihood his experience in the classroom will be similar no matter where OP goes. Please, leave it at that and good luck next year.

[swinger]

Also, my apologies to the OP who posted this in hopes of getting real help and had no desire to listen to a bunch of babies whining over semantics. my bad for feeding the tr0Ll

[splittinghairs]

Also, my apologies to the OP who posted this in hopes of getting real help and had no desire to listen to a bunch of babies whining over semantics

I wonder which way OP had decided to pursue.

[mrwarre85]

you must realize that by posting those numbers and what not, you are leaving others to make the same inferences I made. You cant just post something and then say "I didn't say [extremely reasonable inference] because I didnt ACTUALLY say it." you MEANT for your post to carry meaning behind it so people could use the data to make those assumptions, otherwise you wouldnt have posted it.

Dude, what the hell are you talking about. I posted those numbers to show Emory >>> UGA for jobs. Turns out, Emory >>> UGA for jobs. That was the inference you should have gotten. Admit it, you skimmed the thread and made a reading fail, and now you half backpeddling and half muddling up the thread so it will be dropped. Or don't admit it whatever.

People hear something that sounds similar to something they already have a formed opinion on, and boom, assumption and critical reading fail.

What the thread is really debating is the other half of the reason I keep posting (other than of course, its fun) and that is whether things other than job placement (which ironically favor Emory here to a very significant degree) should be considered when going to law school. They are pretty common on TLS, and always fun to read/participate in for those that are astounded at the single-mindedness of so many on this site! But whatever, you wondered into and I don't think really know what is going on, so your no fun anymore.

OP where are you going!!! I voted Emory, if you couldn't tell...

[Bill Cosby]

Why should people consider anything other than job prospects? Even in the more boring places, you're still living in nice place. It's not like some of the schools are in the slums of some city in the Third World. You won't buy a car without an engine because it has a nice radio.

[treeey86]

(rising Emory 3L here)

OP, if you are still scrolling through this I would advise that you consider your work experience when making a decision.

UGA is in Athens, not exactly a vibrant legal market. Internships during the academic year will be hard to come by, and those that you do get in the area of your law school will be smaller firms.

Emory, however, is in Atlanta. There are tons of small, mid, and large firms that hire clerks during the year. Emory also has a top-notch field placement program where you can work during the academic year for a variety of legal organizations and get credit for that (examples include, but are not limited to: Coca-Cola, Atlanta Spirit (the owners of the NBA Atlanta Hawks), SEC, USAO, GE, Fox, local DA offices, local PD offices, etc-- more info can be found at http://www.law.emory.edu/academics/acad ... lines.html )

I came into law school with only 1 year worth of WE after college. Many of my classmates came straight from under grad. Having lived in Atlanta and being able to do field placement internships for the last 2 years gave me the work experience I needed to have a competitive resume and have the confidence, skills, and experience required to enter practice.

For me I needed to live in a city with many internship opportunities to develop my skill set and acquire practical work experience to become more attractive to employers. I would advise you to consider this factor when making your decision.

[scammedhard]

Emory people are the most opinionated ITT, but Emory is actually losing the poll. It must be very hard for Emory people to see their law school lose to UGA on any given day; but to make matters even worse, Emory is losing to UGA in this poll despite extra money offered.

Are Emory's woes partly the fault of Sara K. Stadler?

[splittinghairs]

I posted those numbers to show Emory >>> UGA for jobs. Turns out, Emory >>> UGA for jobs.

It's not quite as clear cut as that. Emory does place more of the higher end jobs such as greater Biglaw and even more placement into 100+ attorney private firms. However, this tend to benefit only the top 1/3 of the class only.

The less glamorous but just as important bottom 30% of the class cant even find a full-time bar required job. This is probably due to the fact that Emory does not have the same type of relationship with small firms, so a huge percentage of the class is struggling in this economy to find ANY jobs.

Another consideration for employment that favors UGA is the A3 federal clerkship advantage held by UGA. UGA has had a history of placing about 10% of its class in A3 while Emory places 5%.

So if you only look at the narrow sense of employment then yes, Emory does better, but a more holistic analysis shows that its not clear.

[WSJ_Law]

treeey86 does make a good point, and it is one I considered hard when faced with an Emory scholarship. They have excellent clinical programming at Emory and using Atlanta's status as a government/corporate hub in the Southeast USA is a great, non-substitutable advantage Emory enjoys over relatively more rural peers (NDLS, UGA, W&L, etc., I am using the term peer very loosely). My question though is how competitive/difficult/feasible it is to (a) obtain placement in organizations of significance; (b) complete more than one of these programs during LS; (c) participate in one of these and have it mesh with curriculum requirements, grading, purported focus/specialization in LS etc. (d) what advantages these have in and of themselves--and how these advantages justify or do not justify the additional cost of tuition and metropolitan-area living expenses. I.e., would it be more impressive to King & Spalding to go to Emory and have worked for the Fed/SEC/CDC/Etc or go to UGA and have made LR with a high class rank...

(It was my conclusion that impressive clinical externships from Emory would be not be sufficient to measurably improve chances for ATL biglaw, but that high class rank + LR from either of UGA or Emory would. Since both require a high class rank, and assuming ATL alumni connections are of roughly tantamount quality at Emory and UGA, choose the one with least costs associated to reduce risk. TLS, evaluate this conclusion and tell me whether I am thinking soundly or not..this is why I like to post here!)

I decided against Emory on the basis that these were not adequate opportunities (for me personally given my scholarship situation) to justify their added cost or outperform the aforementioned class rank requirement. Although I would suggest conducting the same due diligence for your own situation. In the words of "Reading Rainbow", dont take my word for it! HTH.

[splittinghairs]

Emory people are the most opinionated ITT, but Emory is actually losing the poll. It must be very hard for Emory people to see their law school lose to UGA on any given day; but to make matters even worse, Emory is losing to UGA in this poll despite extra money offered.

Are Emory's woes partly the fault of Sara K. Stadler?

Just to be fair, it really doesnt matter how much money is offered. At the end of the day you compare how much it costs to go to either school. In this situation, UGA will be cheaper (by 30k-40k total) so I think that is a big reason why UGA is narrowly "winning."

If both schools cost the same, I would seriously doubt that UGA would still be people's choices.

[WSJ_Law]

If both schools cost the same, I would seriously doubt that UGA would still be people's choices.

Depends on your values. If you value rural college-town lifestyle, lower CoL, southern culture, D-I athletics, etc., choose UGA. If you (like the majority of TLS) value prestige, degree portability, higher employment prospects in biglaw (even if infinitesimally smaller), academia-oriented culture, "lay prestige", urban lifestyle, etc., go to Emory. I think the majority of TLS favors the latter, so it is probably a fair statement that UGA would probably not be people's [on TLS] choices if they were to cost the same.

[splittinghairs]

If both schools cost the same, I would seriously doubt that UGA would still be people's choices.

Depends on your values. If you value rural college-town lifestyle, lower CoL, southern culture, D-I athletics, etc., choose UGA. If you (like the majority of TLS) value prestige, degree portability, higher employment prospects in biglaw (even if infinitesimally smaller), academia-oriented culture, "lay prestige", urban lifestyle, etc., go to Emory. I think the majority of TLS favors the latter, so it is probably a fair statement that UGA would probably not be people's [on TLS] choices if they were to cost the same.

Fair enough, when I put "people's choices", I meant those on TLS who voted on this poll. Of course anyone would need to evaluate their own values.

[treeey86]

To clarify my previous point : It was not hard for me to get substantive ( and honestly impressive) clinical opportunities at Emory despite not being in the top of my class. Students also work at firms part-time in the city if they are not participating in a clinic.

For Atlanta big-law, no kidding LR + top grades is better than clinical experience. But after you drop below the 20-25% mark at Emory or UGA then biglaw is out of the question purely based on grades. Your best shot of getting a good job will depend on your substantive work experience. That is where living in Atlanta has an advantage.

[criticialmass]

Also, my apologies to the OP who posted this in hopes of getting real help and had no desire to listen to a bunch of babies whining over semantics

I wonder which way OP had decided to pursue.

I haven't completely made up my mind yet, although I believe I will in the next day or so. I'm going to take one more opportunity to visit each campus. I do appreciate everyone's feedback though, so thanks again to everyone offering up their insights. I will let you guys know what I end up deciding.

[mrwarre85]

I posted those numbers to show Emory >>> UGA for jobs. Turns out, Emory >>> UGA for jobs.

It's not quite as clear cut as that. Emory does place more of the higher end jobs such as greater Biglaw and even more placement into 100+ attorney private firms. However, this tend to benefit only the top 1/3 of the class only.

The less glamorous but just as important bottom 30% of the class cant even find a full-time bar required job. This is probably due to the fact that Emory does not have the same type of relationship with small firms, so a huge percentage of the class is struggling in this economy to find ANY jobs.

Another consideration for employment that favors UGA is the A3 federal clerkship advantage held by UGA. UGA has had a history of placing about 10% of its class in A3 while Emory places 5%.

So if you only look at the narrow sense of employment then yes, Emory does better, but a more holistic analysis shows that its not clear.

It isn't just the top 1/3 where there is a difference.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=150681

42% of Emorys 09 class cleared at least 75k, and 55% had a reported private sector salary, compared to only 29% from UGA. These numbers aren't close.

Your point about the bottom of Emory struggling due to the recession is probably credited. It makes a ton of sense. However, either things will get better (and they are) or Emory will adjust. I think a lot of higher ranked schools were hurt more by the recession when you look at all the schools in a small time frame. This was due to what happened at the top, at major corporations, and not at small practices which generally feel things a bit later. I have a few anecdotal examples of state schools doing pretty well throughout the toughest times, PM if you want.

I wasn't aware that UGA consistently beat Emory in A3 clerkships. If true, though, we would only be talking about a handful of students a year.

I think both school have their advantages, but that Emory sounds credited for the OP considering his desires and the price difference.

Not even getting into Cosbys comment about there being only one consideration for picking a law school.. Been there done that before on TLS..

[nmcdgt]

.

[mebeSajid]

It isn't just the top 1/3 where there is a difference.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=150681

42% of Emorys 09 class cleared at least 75k, and 55% had a reported private sector salary, compared to only 29% from UGA. These numbers aren't close.

Your point about the bottom of Emory struggling due to the recession is probably credited. It makes a ton of sense. However, either things will get better (and they are) or Emory will adjust. I think a lot of higher ranked schools were hurt more by the recession when you look at all the schools in a small time frame. This was due to what happened at the top, at major corporations, and not at small practices which generally feel things a bit later. I have a few anecdotal examples of state schools doing pretty well throughout the toughest times, PM if you want.

I wasn't aware that UGA consistently beat Emory in A3 clerkships. If true, though, we would only be talking about a handful of students a year.

I think both school have their advantages, but that Emory sounds credited for the OP considering his desires and the price difference.

Not even getting into Cosbys comment about there being only one consideration for picking a law school.. Been there done that before on TLS..

Numbers from the class of '09 (where much of the SA hiring happened in 07) will likely bear little resemblance to hiring next fall, especially given the change in the circumstances and the massive hit Emory's reputation has taken. Throwing numbers around that describe hiring patterns that existed five years prior to when the OP will be interviewing for jobs is slightly misleading, no?

Rising 2L at UGA here - I ended up choosing UGA over both Emory and Georgetown (so you can tell that I'm fairly risk averse), and I've known quite a few Emory Law students and alumni over the years. I ended up doing so because going to UGA minimized my exposure to debt - they gave me a scholarship, and Emory (somewhat surprisingly) did not - my LSAT scores were well above the Q3 for both schools. I'm not going to go into a "my law school penis is bigger than yours" or a "lay people have more respect for our school" debate, because it's silly, childish, and kind of douchey.

But in your position, here's what I could consider:

1. Where do you want to be long term? If you want to be out of state, I'd think that Emory is the better decision. In Atlanta, it's probably a wash. In GA, but outside of Atlanta, I'd go to UGA.
2. How debt-sensitive are you? This is a personal question, and only you can answer this.
3. Small-town versus somewhat suburban part of a big city. Which do you prefer? I, for one, think that Emory's campus is a PITA to get to if you want to get around Atlanta, but there are certainly better networking opportunities available at Emory simply because of it's location.

I'd think that, in this economy, the career prospects are similar - it really comes down to the specific areas you want to learn about, and where you'd like to live for three years.

[TheBigMediocre]

Anecdote you should give no weight to:

Friend from undergrad and I both finished 1L this year. He went to Emory, I picked UGA. I landed a 1L SA in ATL and he is working an unpaid gig for a vagistrate judge.

[Grizz]

Anecdote you should give no weight to:

Friend from undergrad and I both finished 1L this year. He went to Emory, I picked UGA. I landed a 1L SA in ATL and he is working an unpaid gig for a vagistrate judge.

lawl vagistrate