Rutgers v Seton Hall (10k scholarhsip)

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DK33
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Rutgers v Seton Hall (10k scholarhsip)

Postby DK33 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:39 pm

First, I want to discourage Top 14 Corporate Elitists and cyncial, sorry, sad people from answering this. Much of the language on this forum is disgusting, and cynical would be an improvement for you people. If you enter the legal profession for anything other than pursuing the causes of Social Justice, your massive law school debt isn't my concern. In fact, maybe you've earned it. That said, I'm sure there are some people on here with a healthy skepticism that are actually interested in doing good work in the law whose take on this I would value.

Ok, here's my scenario.

(84) Rutgers-Newark just admitted me off the waiting list. (61)Seton Hall then offered me a 10K scholarship a year. Both are on a part time basis, but I could tranfer to full time within a year, and perhaps less time at Rutgers. Certainly I am looking to do just that. The tuition difference is still sizable. With my modest taste, I'd probably go about 90k-100k into debt all things included at Rutgers, maybe less. Seton Hall, even with the scholarship, would probably be around 140k-150k.

The Seton Hall scholarship has no stipulation other then to "make academic progress". No mim GPA, no class rank, I just can't "flunk out"

I'm a New York City kid, I love Queens and I like the idea of working in the City. I just graduated from College and have been doing that the past year.

So, if in my shoes, what would you do?

get it to x
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Re: Rutgers v Seton Hall (10k scholarhsip)

Postby get it to x » Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:13 pm

I am a current RU student and I can say it's pretty much a toss up between Seton Hall and RU. Seton Hall seems to have more grads in the private sector, but that is probably more a function of the greater debt incurred by attending there than the school's focus. RU's lower tuition and public interest focus makes government jobs more attractive for the student body, but that doesn't mean that RU students don't work in the private sector. There is a tangible public interest push however so if you're a purely private sector focused person, Seton Hall may be more of a fit.

Rutgers does well placing students in internships with state and federal judges. The Newark federal courthouse has a significant number of RU graduates on the magistrate and DJ levels who look for RU students and later clerks. The same can be said for the other federal vicinages as well as the state court system on all levels. It gives the school a distinct advantage over students from the top 14 who are trying to intern in that courthouse as well. Rutgers has a pretty decent placement rate as far as clerkships are concerned. However, a fair number of these clerkships are at the lower state levels so it's not likely that you'd be able to secure a federal clerkship w/o a strong overall academic record. Appellate level may be slightly easier to secure, but it's still a tough go (as it is for most students seeking clerkships on this level in this economy).

Career-prospect wise RU is what you would expect from a regional law school. Students in the top 10-15 % are likely to have opportunities at some NY biglaw firms (RU has several traditional feeder firms) and NJ mid-sized firms. As you progress down the class, you're looking at mostly NJ mid-law along with some NY firms and then small law firms. RU has a strong placement record in the public sector in NJ and NY. DA's offices in the NY metro area seem to find Rutgers students a natural fit because of the school's public interest focus. There are several grads every year who work in the New York City Law Department and the Manhattan DA's office. But again, you're going to have your work cut out for you for these positions.

Class sizes are about average (100-200 ppl depending on the year) and the atmosphere is not cutthroat with the exception of several students which you'd find anywhere you'd attend. The school is vastly underrated as to the quality of its education - all professors are highly qualified from the best law schools and grading is pretty unforgiving but it's not impossible to do well . For the price, I've been pleasantly surprised at the opportunities I've had and the education I've received thus far.

DK33
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Re: Rutgers v Seton Hall (10k scholarhsip)

Postby DK33 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:18 pm

Thanks. That helps.

All this talk about big law and stuff isn't what I'm interested in. I hate that s***.

I'm already working in the NYC Law Department as a Paralegal. Its ok, but defending the city in Torts suits isn't a career for me. The lawyers here taught me I.R.A.C., Test outlining, class outling, all that stuff that they insist professors don't mention till its too late, but hopefully it helps. The DA could be nice, maybe prosecuting white collar crime. A clerkship is really where I'd like to start, I think. I'm doing this for Social Justice, Social Justice, Social Justice. This cite drives me nuts because the kids only care about the bottom line. They should be looking at managing a Hedge Fund instead of going for a Juris Doctor, reading Friedman instead of Rawls.

How's the housing sitch? I know 1st year you can get in state, I'm planning on it. How are the dorms? Are the rules harsh? I'm 23, I don't wanna worry about having friends or girls over now and again to take the stress off the grind. If there's going to be college-style dorm sit ins and babysitters I want no part of it.

The clerkships really sound great, that's where I would like to start. The curve will be brutal as hell. A 2.7 GPA just to not get put on probation I hear. Ancedotal as it is, I had a friend who got in last year and struggled bad. I'm supposedly starting part time. That should ease the burden. They seem to encourage a quick tranfer, and I want to transfer asap but the first semester I could perhaps do well taking just contracts and torts and not bothering to work. I saved up 10k from this post grad job with the city. I'd rather take out loans and focus on school.

DK33
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Re: Rutgers v Seton Hall (10k scholarhsip)

Postby DK33 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:33 pm

P.S. What is the grading curve like?

Seton Hall it was something like no more than 15 percent get A's and A pluses, no more than 30 percent getting an A+, A, or A-.

At Rutgers I hear 2.7 is the minimum to stay in academic "good stading" If I can't do this I have no buisness in law school anyway. So how does the Rutgers curve work? Do they stack all the kids gaining merit scholarships in the same sections? This tactic seems possible if the NYT ancedotal articles are in fact a trend. Law schools offer more than they can give, and than know as a statisical certainly they won't have to re new several scholarships each year.

Thoughts?

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thecilent
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Re: Rutgers v Seton Hall (10k scholarhsip)

Postby thecilent » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:37 am

See you on xo & jdu soon, brother

scammedhard
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Re: Rutgers v Seton Hall (10k scholarhsip)

Postby scammedhard » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:02 am

thecilent wrote:See you on xo & jdu soon, brother

It doesn't matter because it's all for "Social Justice, Social Justice, Social Justice."

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thecilent
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Re: Rutgers v Seton Hall (10k scholarhsip)

Postby thecilent » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:44 am

DK33 wrote:Thanks. That helps.

All this talk about big law and stuff isn't what I'm interested in. I hate that s***.

I'm already working in the NYC Law Department as a Paralegal. Its ok, but defending the city in Torts suits isn't a career for me. The lawyers here taught me I.R.A.C., Test outlining, class outling, all that stuff that they insist professors don't mention till its too late, but hopefully it helps. The DA could be nice, maybe prosecuting white collar crime. A clerkship is really where I'd like to start, I think. I'm doing this for Social Justice, Social Justice, Social Justice. This cite drives me nuts because the kids only care about the bottom line. They should be looking at managing a Hedge Fund instead of going for a Juris Doctor, reading Friedman instead of Rawls.

How's the housing sitch? I know 1st year you can get in state, I'm planning on it. How are the dorms? Are the rules harsh? I'm 23, I don't wanna worry about having friends or girls over now and again to take the stress off the grind. If there's going to be college-style dorm sit ins and babysitters I want no part of it.

The clerkships really sound great, that's where I would like to start. The curve will be brutal as hell. A 2.7 GPA just to not get put on probation I hear. Ancedotal as it is, I had a friend who got in last year and struggled bad. I'm supposedly starting part time. That should ease the burden. They seem to encourage a quick tranfer, and I want to transfer asap but the first semester I could perhaps do well taking just contracts and torts and not bothering to work. I saved up 10k from this post grad job with the city. I'd rather take out loans and focus on school.

I just reread this post and am now calling flame. there is just too much fail for it to be real

MrAnon
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Re: Rutgers v Seton Hall (10k scholarhsip)

Postby MrAnon » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:06 am

Its great that you want to pursue social justice but I hope you are prepared to open a solo practice to do that because jobs, even in the "field" of social justice, are not readily available out of these schools. And just being practical, you will need to figure out a way to pay the debt.

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Re: Rutgers v Seton Hall (10k scholarhsip)

Postby scammedhard » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:13 am

thecilent wrote:I just reread this post and am now calling flame. there is just too much fail for it to be real

I am not so sure. It sounds like "too much fail for it to be real," but the sad reality is that most law students go to schools even worse than these, under similar terms, and justify their terrible decisions on the pursuit of "social justice."
Last edited by scammedhard on Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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thecilent
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Re: Rutgers v Seton Hall (10k scholarhsip)

Postby thecilent » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:16 am

yeah I guess youre right

DK33
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Re: Rutgers v Seton Hall (10k scholarhsip)

Postby DK33 » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:45 pm

lol you guys don't even sound like you want to be there. Who put a gun to your head and forced you to do this?

I don't buy that. Plenty of legal fields where you can fight the good fight. Immigration, Labor Law, maybe Prosecuting White collar crime. That satisfies my criteria. How about Public Interest work? All you can see is the bottom line. Why not just manage a hedge fund then? Lawyers like this are social parasites. Its part of the problem. Your living in a different moral universe.

I'm aware there's a 100k debt, give or take, at Rutgers. 1,000 a month for 10 years on a 40k salary, maybe. Plus interest. Believe me, I get. I'll live poor for a while. I've been living modestly my whole life, I'm not some yact sailor from Connecticut.

I really hope that people like that don't bother with law school. No wonder you're all so cyncial. The expectations are ridiculous.

DK33
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Re: Rutgers v Seton Hall (10k scholarhsip)

Postby DK33 » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:58 pm

Does anyone here actually think law school is a good idea?

It you all hate it so much, why the hell did you do it? Did you not know what kind of debt you were getting into? Did you not bother with due diligence? It wasn't as if Rutgers and Seton Hall were the only law schools that accepted me, the rest of them were "ranked" too, whatever the hell that means.

What were all of you expecting? 140,000 salaries and full scholarships? Don't you read the papers?

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Re: Rutgers v Seton Hall (10k scholarhsip)

Postby Bigbub75 » Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:12 pm

I think the majority of TLS'ers, especially 0L's, don't understand what a regional law school is. If you want to practice in NJ there is nothing wrong with the school. It does great in NJ. Most of the students who do ok can find a job. While NY biglaw may be reserved for the top 15% from the school, NJ midlaw is not bad at all (still pays 125-145). If public interest is your thing you will find plenty of opportunities from RU. And as far as tuition goes RU is still reasonable.

While I understand a lot of the concerns with going to lower ranked school, It's not the end of the world. Sure the T14 is great, but it's not the only option, especially for those open to attending solid regional school. Many on this board are negative for no reason, with no real data to back up their negativity.

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thecilent
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Re: Rutgers v Seton Hall (10k scholarhsip)

Postby thecilent » Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:18 pm

Bigbub75 wrote:I think the majority of TLS'ers, especially 0L's, don't understand what a regional law school is. If you want to practice in NJ there is nothing wrong with the school. It does great in NJ. Most of the students who do ok can find a job. While NY biglaw may be reserved for the top 15% from the school, NJ midlaw is not bad at all (still pays 125-145). If public interest is your thing you will find plenty of opportunities from RU. And as far as tuition goes RU is still reasonable.

While I understand a lot of the concerns with going to lower ranked school, It's not the end of the world. Sure the T14 is great, but it's not the only option, especially for those open to attending solid regional school. Many on this board are negative for no reason, with no real data to back up their negativity.

Yeah right you know how hard it is to land a 125k - 145k midlaw job in nj coming from rutg or seton hall?? It's difficult as shit. I have friends who graduated from those schools making a lott less in nj right now.

DK33
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Re: Rutgers v Seton Hall (10k scholarhsip)

Postby DK33 » Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:41 pm

I'm not trying to make 125,000 a year. I'm ok with much less. I'm from New York City, and I want to work here. But that doesn't mean "biglaw". It means law. Period. Even if that means an A.D.A. or Immigration Lawyer making 50k a year.

That was a decent answer. On that calculus, I guess since RU and Seton Hall are both regional, choose RU, b/c less on the cost. Logical enough. I make some good connections in this City in College and on the job. In the law and with legal academics. It can't be all doom and gloom. Your life doesn't have to miserable if you go to law school. Its still a hell of a better option in this City then CUNY, NYLS, maybe even St. John's given the cost. We seem to have a good amount of Rutgers Lawyers at my job in the City's Law Department. Government agencies around here seem friendly to the school. Not like "wow, Rutgers" but more like "Ok, Rutgers, cool, what did you do there?"

I'm ok with that. Harvard isn't an option for us mere mortals.

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Re: Rutgers v Seton Hall (10k scholarhsip)

Postby Bigbub75 » Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:03 pm

thecilent wrote:
Bigbub75 wrote:I think the majority of TLS'ers, especially 0L's, don't understand what a regional law school is. If you want to practice in NJ there is nothing wrong with the school. It does great in NJ. Most of the students who do ok can find a job. While NY biglaw may be reserved for the top 15% from the school, NJ midlaw is not bad at all (still pays 125-145). If public interest is your thing you will find plenty of opportunities from RU. And as far as tuition goes RU is still reasonable.

While I understand a lot of the concerns with going to lower ranked school, It's not the end of the world. Sure the T14 is great, but it's not the only option, especially for those open to attending solid regional school. Many on this board are negative for no reason, with no real data to back up their negativity.

Yeah right you know how hard it is to land a 125k - 145k midlaw job in nj coming from rutg or seton hall?? It's difficult as shit. I have friends who graduated from those schools making a lott less in nj right now.



Well I can't speak for SH at all. I know at least 10 people from RU doing biglaw this year and another 15 doing midlaw. And I don't even know a ton of people at the school. I would question what rank your friend is. Most of these people I know are in the top 1/3, which is not impossible to attain, believe me. I had an "avarage" LSAT score, and while Rutgers doesn't rank, I would say I'm top 20-10% and I didn't put in that much work.

DK33
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Re: Rutgers v Seton Hall (10k scholarhsip)

Postby DK33 » Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:21 pm

That encouraging. I almost pulled a 160 on a practice LSAT, but ended up w/ a 155 on the real thing. I couldn't sleep the night before. Intellectually, I think I'm capable enough. I did very well in college, 3.7. Not at Harvard or anything, I went to Baruch, but I doubled in PoliSci and Philosophy with a 4.0 in the former and merit awards in the latter. Like I said b4, I've doing I.R.A.C's on law school test questions, class outlines, test outlines, and EBT analysis since I started this job at the Law Dept back in October. I'm no Einstein, but no fool either.

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Re: Rutgers v Seton Hall (10k scholarhsip)

Postby bk1 » Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:33 pm

Bigbub75 wrote:Most of these people I know are in the top 1/3, which is not impossible to attain, believe me.


Top 1/3 is not impossible. It is, however, unlikely.

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Re: Rutgers v Seton Hall (10k scholarhsip)

Postby thecilent » Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:36 pm

Bigbub75 wrote:
thecilent wrote:
Bigbub75 wrote:I think the majority of TLS'ers, especially 0L's, don't understand what a regional law school is. If you want to practice in NJ there is nothing wrong with the school. It does great in NJ. Most of the students who do ok can find a job. While NY biglaw may be reserved for the top 15% from the school, NJ midlaw is not bad at all (still pays 125-145). If public interest is your thing you will find plenty of opportunities from RU. And as far as tuition goes RU is still reasonable.

While I understand a lot of the concerns with going to lower ranked school, It's not the end of the world. Sure the T14 is great, but it's not the only option, especially for those open to attending solid regional school. Many on this board are negative for no reason, with no real data to back up their negativity.

Yeah right you know how hard it is to land a 125k - 145k midlaw job in nj coming from rutg or seton hall?? It's difficult as shit. I have friends who graduated from those schools making a lott less in nj right now.


Well I can't speak for SH at all. I know at least 10 people from RU doing biglaw this year and another 15 doing midlaw. And I don't even know a ton of people at the school. I would question what rank your friend is. Most of these people I know are in the top 1/3, which is not impossible to attain, believe me. I had an "avarage" LSAT score, and while Rutgers doesn't rank, I would say I'm top 20-10% and I didn't put in that much work.

Friends are both only slightly above median - or so they say

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Noval
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Re: Rutgers v Seton Hall (10k scholarhsip)

Postby Noval » Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:10 pm

Bigbub75 wrote:
thecilent wrote:
Bigbub75 wrote:I think the majority of TLS'ers, especially 0L's, don't understand what a regional law school is. If you want to practice in NJ there is nothing wrong with the school. It does great in NJ. Most of the students who do ok can find a job. While NY biglaw may be reserved for the top 15% from the school, NJ midlaw is not bad at all (still pays 125-145). If public interest is your thing you will find plenty of opportunities from RU. And as far as tuition goes RU is still reasonable.

While I understand a lot of the concerns with going to lower ranked school, It's not the end of the world. Sure the T14 is great, but it's not the only option, especially for those open to attending solid regional school. Many on this board are negative for no reason, with no real data to back up their negativity.

Yeah right you know how hard it is to land a 125k - 145k midlaw job in nj coming from rutg or seton hall?? It's difficult as shit. I have friends who graduated from those schools making a lott less in nj right now.



Well I can't speak for SH at all. I know at least 10 people from RU doing biglaw this year and another 15 doing midlaw. And I don't even know a ton of people at the school. I would question what rank your friend is. Most of these people I know are in the top 1/3, which is not impossible to attain, believe me. I had an "avarage" LSAT score, and while Rutgers doesn't rank, I would say I'm top 20-10% and I didn't put in that much work.


Yea and i know a dude who will become an Astronaut soon, lol.

OT: Seton Hall is a disaster mill, you will not become a Lawyer if you come from this shithole.
I don't know about RU, but just because you "know" people who did well doesn't mean it will be the same for OP, just because you got the motivation to do well doesn't mean shit either.

If you want BigLaw, going to either RU or Seton Hall Garbage Man Training School will be too big of a gamble to be worth it, even with a scholly.

DK33
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Re: Rutgers v Seton Hall (10k scholarhsip)

Postby DK33 » Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:26 pm

lol you didn't read the string of comments.

I don't want any part of "biglaw". 80 hour work weeks and no time spend all that money. Who needs it.

Interesting indictment on Seton Hall. I guess your a student there?

I'm leaning towards RU. Lower tuition and I have some saving to cover whatever the hell "miscellaneous" expenses means.

Here's the better question: Why the hell did all of you go to law school? Clearly you hate it, your miserable, and reading these posts, I wouldn't be stunned to find some of you massively angry/depressed/sad/alone. Why did you do it???????

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Noval
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Re: Rutgers v Seton Hall (10k scholarhsip)

Postby Noval » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:28 pm

DK33 wrote:Here's the better question: Why the hell did all of you go to law school? Clearly you hate it, your miserable, and reading these posts, I wouldn't be stunned to find some of you massively angry/depressed/sad/alone. Why did you do it???????


Because i live in Canada and already got a job lined up starting at 95k/year with no debts to repay.

You will go to Rutgers, and now you allow yourself to talkshit like this on TLS ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrO5J7TdS7c

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Re: Rutgers v Seton Hall (10k scholarhsip)

Postby IronHBM » Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:03 am

DK33 wrote:lol you didn't read the string of comments.

I don't want any part of "biglaw". 80 hour work weeks and no time spend all that money. Who needs it.

Interesting indictment on Seton Hall. I guess your a student there?

I'm leaning towards RU. Lower tuition and I have some saving to cover whatever the hell "miscellaneous" expenses means.

Here's the better question: Why the hell did all of you go to law school? Clearly you hate it, your miserable, and reading these posts, I wouldn't be stunned to find some of you massively angry/depressed/sad/alone. Why did you do it???????

Nice try Elie but you haven't dissuaded me from going to law school.

DK33
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Re: Rutgers v Seton Hall (10k scholarhsip)

Postby DK33 » Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:05 pm

I'm not trying to dissaude anybody.

I just don't get why everyone on this forum is so angry about their lives. I happen to think its a nice idea, if done for the right reasons.

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Re: Rutgers v Seton Hall (10k scholarhsip)

Postby Rule11 » Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:32 pm

This flame worked? WTF?

Not sure if it was part of the flame, but just for posterity, prosecuting white collar crime is rarely going to be about social justice. The real criminals get off scot free (and usually very rich), while fallguys and whistleblowers get hard time.




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