Should I go to Southwestern Law School W/ no scholarship?

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a4rings
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Should I go to Southwestern Law School W/ no scholarship?

Postby a4rings » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:34 am

Hey guys, I'm 23 yrs old and i graduated from UC Santa Barbara with a degree in Business Economics with Accounting (3.4 GPA). Now i managed to do pretty shitty on my LSAT (154) and have been accepted to Southwestern Law School's full time program with absolutely no scholarship. I definitely want to live and practice within california, and I'm just wondering if you guys think it's even worth attending a tier 3 school with no scholarship (my deposit deadline of $1000 is tomorrow June 10th)

I'm just very nervous about shouldering such a large amount of debt just to go to a unranked school. So i guess my options are

1.) Attend SW for the Fall 2011 school year

2.) Retake the LSAT and apply for the 2012 school year and hope i get accepted to a better school.

3.) Say forget Law School and get involved in the finance industry either in consulting or wealth management where i would work for 2-4 years and then get my MBA

4.)Say forget Law School and get a good paying (40-60K) Accounting job now and then 2-4 years down the line go get my MBA

Regardless of what I choose I am determined to get my MBA, meaning that even at SW I plan on doing the joint JD/MBA program.

Final note, how realistic is it transfer from SW to a higher ranked law school after the first year? I was consistently scoring in the 160-164 range but i screwed up the LG section really bad on test day and got a 154-- so i guess gauge my intelligence on a 160 lsat rather than the 154.

thanks alot goys, i really appreciate the help!

Edit: sorry I accidentally said i was 22... im 23 and graduated June 2010
Last edited by a4rings on Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

socraticmethodman
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Re: Should I go to Southwestern Law School W/ no scholarship?

Postby socraticmethodman » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:41 am

OP,

Whatever you do, please do not pay sticker to go to Southwestern. If you really want to go there, retake and get $$$.

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drdolittle
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Re: Should I go to Southwestern Law School W/ no scholarship?

Postby drdolittle » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:43 am

Transferring is realistic as long as you do very well. It seems like you a) could work some more on your LSAT and raise it and b) seem to be conflicted about your interests at 22. I'd wait a year or two, if you really want to attend law school, you should be able to raise your LSAT. I don't think doing a dual degree program pretty much anywhere, much less SW, is worth it for anyone without significant life/work experience.

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jump_man
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Re: Should I go to Southwestern Law School W/ no scholarship?

Postby jump_man » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:47 am

Looking at their cost of attendance, it looks like you'll have over 140K in debt when you graduate from Southwestern (and probably more if you get an MBA as well). The data indicate that graduates make on average roughly 80K a year, so that debt burden will be HUGE. Depending on what kinds of loans you get, the interest can be ASTRONOMICAL :shock: You should never count on your ability to graduate at the top of your class, or your ability to transfer to a better law school, because the odds are strongly stacked against either of those possibilities actually coming to fruition.

I was at one time considering going to Southwestern (at sticker) with numbers similar to yours (at your age), and then thought for two seconds about how I would never want to climb under a mountain of debt that big. So, I instead retook the LSAT (just took the June test, I'll let you know how it goes), and I'll be reapplying in the fall. If being in TONS AND TONS debt doesn't bother you, go for it. But if you can get a 160, then PLEASE reapply :)

Debt ruins lives - no joke!

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jump_man
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Re: Should I go to Southwestern Law School W/ no scholarship?

Postby jump_man » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:49 am

Also, if you are absolutely set on going to Southwestern, you should consider their accelerated two-year JD program. It will be a really rough two years in terms of school-work, but you will save tons of cold hard cash!

a4rings
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Re: Should I go to Southwestern Law School W/ no scholarship?

Postby a4rings » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:55 am

jump_man wrote:Also, if you are absolutely set on going to Southwestern, you should consider their accelerated two-year JD program. It will be a really rough two years in terms of school-work, but you will save tons of cold hard cash!


I'm not sure if I can just choose their SCALE (2yr) program--I just got accepted to the full time traditional 3 yr program. I will definitely call and ask the admissions office tomorrow!

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jump_man
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Re: Should I go to Southwestern Law School W/ no scholarship?

Postby jump_man » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:03 am

a4rings wrote:
jump_man wrote:Also, if you are absolutely set on going to Southwestern, you should consider their accelerated two-year JD program. It will be a really rough two years in terms of school-work, but you will save tons of cold hard cash!


I'm not sure if I can just choose their SCALE (2yr) program--I just got accepted to the full time traditional 3 yr program. I will definitely call and ask the admissions office tomorrow!


Yeah, I'm not sure you can choose to be in SCALE or if you have to be selected for it. But to be honest, the more I think about your situation, the more I would recommend you retake and reapply in the fall. If you can get in the 161-163 range, you'd have a good shot a Loyola; the job prospects and average starting salary for Loyola are MUCH better than Southwestern. The difference between a 60K salary and a 100K salary is 1.6 million over a 40 year career, so I would strongly urge you to consider reapplying in the fall.

jrose5
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Re: Should I go to Southwestern Law School W/ no scholarship?

Postby jrose5 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:08 am

My brother did around the same as you on his first shot at the LSAT, with a lower GPA. He retook, improved to a high 160, and is now at a T20 with some scholly money.

Retake --> reapply or go for the MBA alone. Don't go to Southwestern.

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dpk711
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Re: Should I go to Southwestern Law School W/ no scholarship?

Postby dpk711 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:17 am

Don't touch Southwestern. I have a couple of friend who graduated from there and have come to me literally crying because they still don't have a job. No, just no.

scammedhard
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Re: Should I go to Southwestern Law School W/ no scholarship?

Postby scammedhard » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:42 am

Options 2, 3, and 4 seem reasonable; option 1 is a suicide.

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joeshmo39
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Re: Should I go to Southwestern Law School W/ no scholarship?

Postby joeshmo39 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:51 am

Yeah I agree with the above poster, he's most succinct. Don't go. You should take some time off from school, if you can work for a few years and then start prepping again for the LSAT you will be in great shape. A few years of work experience is really desirable to employers right now and it will give you a chance to increase your LSAT.

Also, no one else yelled about this, so, NEVER go to a school expecting to transfer. It's hard to guarantee a high rank and you will likely be stuck at the school. If you aren't fine with hanging the degree on your office wall down the road, don't go to that school.

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bceagles182
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Re: Should I go to Southwestern Law School W/ no scholarship?

Postby bceagles182 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:52 am

The answer to the topic question is no.

JD=Doctor
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Re: Should I go to Southwestern Law School W/ no scholarship?

Postby JD=Doctor » Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:20 pm

gean?

a4rings
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Re: Should I go to Southwestern Law School W/ no scholarship?

Postby a4rings » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:00 pm

haha no not Gean.

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romothesavior
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Re: Should I go to Southwestern Law School W/ no scholarship?

Postby romothesavior » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:21 pm

The answer to your question is a resounding no.

Options 2, 3, and 4 are all far better than SW at sticker.

Total Litigator
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Re: Should I go to Southwestern Law School W/ no scholarship?

Postby Total Litigator » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:30 pm

jump_man wrote:Looking at their cost of attendance, it looks like you'll have over 140K in debt when you graduate from Southwestern (and probably more if you get an MBA as well). The data indicate that graduates make on average roughly 80K a year, so that debt burden will be HUGE.

...

Debt ruins lives - no joke!


0L please stop giving advice. That being said, you did reach the correct answer.

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jump_man
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Re: Should I go to Southwestern Law School W/ no scholarship?

Postby jump_man » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:20 pm

Total Litigator wrote:
jump_man wrote:Looking at their cost of attendance, it looks like you'll have over 140K in debt when you graduate from Southwestern (and probably more if you get an MBA as well). The data indicate that graduates make on average roughly 80K a year, so that debt burden will be HUGE.

...

Debt ruins lives - no joke!


0L please stop giving advice. That being said, you did reach the correct answer.


Hahaha - thanks Litigator 8) . . . I think of it less as giving advice and more as providing assistance towards reaching common-sense conclusions.

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bk1
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Re: Should I go to Southwestern Law School W/ no scholarship?

Postby bk1 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:25 pm

romothesavior wrote:The answer to your question is a resounding no.

Options 2, 3, and 4 are all far better than SW at sticker.

+1

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northwood
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Re: Should I go to Southwestern Law School W/ no scholarship?

Postby northwood » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:36 pm

If you arent sure about going into law, dont go to law school. half of your bullets pertain to work outside law, and you said that you will be getting your MBA regardless of going to law school, so your options right now should be to either find a job, or go get the MBA then find a job. If you arent sure about what you want to do- take time to research the options available to you and try them out. If you realize you dont like it- then change. However, once you start law school, you are setting yourself up to be a lawyer ( maybe if you drop out after 1L you can go back to school, but thats not a certainty). If you have second or third thoughts about what career you want- take time to figure that out and go from there.

So to answer your question- no you should not go to Southwestern Law School without a scholarship.

Total Litigator
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Re: Should I go to Southwestern Law School W/ no scholarship?

Postby Total Litigator » Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:35 pm

jump_man wrote:
Total Litigator wrote:
jump_man wrote:Looking at their cost of attendance, it looks like you'll have over 140K in debt when you graduate from Southwestern (and probably more if you get an MBA as well). The data indicate that graduates make on average roughly 80K a year, so that debt burden will be HUGE.

...

Debt ruins lives - no joke!


0L please stop giving advice. That being said, you did reach the correct answer.


Hahaha - thanks Litigator 8) . . . I think of it less as giving advice and more as providing assistance towards reaching common-sense conclusions.


Lol, I'm glad you took that in stride. To be more specific, that statistic is based off of only law grads who reported their salaries to the CSO. Usually there is a very low response rate from those who aren't making a lot of money, hence the school self reported salaries are way above the reality. I would guess that a school like Southwestern has a 50% or lower response rate, and everyone who didn't respond is making less than 45K/year.

Now you know!

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Patriot1208
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Re: Should I go to Southwestern Law School W/ no scholarship?

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:16 pm

Do you have offers in consulting or wealth management? Because it's june, which means virtually everyone has hired their new classes already

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jump_man
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Re: Should I go to Southwestern Law School W/ no scholarship?

Postby jump_man » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:44 pm

Total Litigator wrote:
jump_man wrote:
Total Litigator wrote:
jump_man wrote:Looking at their cost of attendance, it looks like you'll have over 140K in debt when you graduate from Southwestern (and probably more if you get an MBA as well). The data indicate that graduates make on average roughly 80K a year, so that debt burden will be HUGE.

...

Debt ruins lives - no joke!


0L please stop giving advice. That being said, you did reach the correct answer.


Hahaha - thanks Litigator 8) . . . I think of it less as giving advice and more as providing assistance towards reaching common-sense conclusions.


Lol, I'm glad you took that in stride. To be more specific, that statistic is based off of only law grads who reported their salaries to the CSO. Usually there is a very low response rate from those who aren't making a lot of money, hence the school self reported salaries are way above the reality. I would guess that a school like Southwestern has a 50% or lower response rate, and everyone who didn't respond is making less than 45K/year.

Now you know!



Yes, that's a very, VERY, VERY good point. And thanks for looking out for all the ignorant 0L's like me who don't know any better - If I hadn't discovered the common sense wisdom of TLS I'd be REALLY screwed . . .

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dr123
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Re: Should I go to Southwestern Law School W/ no scholarship?

Postby dr123 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:47 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:Do you have offers in consulting or wealth management? Because it's june, which means virtually everyone has hired their new classes already


Came here to post this.

consulting and wealth management isn't really something you can just do. If you havent been sufficiently preparing to enter this field, be prepared to be let down.

071816
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Re: Should I go to Southwestern Law School W/ no scholarship?

Postby 071816 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:55 pm

Even Loyola at sticker wouldn't be wise, so I would definitely avoid SW at sticker if possible.

Danteshek
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Re: Should I go to Southwestern Law School W/ no scholarship?

Postby Danteshek » Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:49 pm

You are too young to be considering law school. You need to get a job.




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