PLEASE HELP QUICKLY: Nova Southeastern or Florida Coastal??

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: PLEASE HELP QUICKLY: Nova Southeastern or Florida Coastal??

Postby FeelTheHeat » Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:53 am

NYC Law wrote:
maxm2764 wrote:OMG, tax guy is back. I ran here.


He's been back.

His advice is still slowly creeping towards 'good', but it still has a long way to go.


Like I said, if you cut through all the crap of his post he's pretty much saying the same thing we are. But we are assholes.

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Kilpatrick
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Re: PLEASE HELP QUICKLY: Nova Southeastern or Florida Coastal??

Postby Kilpatrick » Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:53 am

Kilpatrick wrote:Just when I thought this thread couldn't get any better somebody creates an account just to bring it back from the dead with a post whining about how mean TLS is


And then Taxguy shows up! This thread delivers time and time again

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: PLEASE HELP QUICKLY: Nova Southeastern or Florida Coastal??

Postby FeelTheHeat » Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:54 am

Kilpatrick wrote:
Kilpatrick wrote:Just when I thought this thread couldn't get any better somebody creates an account just to bring it back from the dead with a post whining about how mean TLS is


And then Taxguy shows up! This thread delivers time and time again


Expect MTal any minute now.

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maxm2764
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Re: PLEASE HELP QUICKLY: Nova Southeastern or Florida Coastal??

Postby maxm2764 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:44 pm

Why hasn't tax guy been made into a mod yet?

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NYC Law
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Re: PLEASE HELP QUICKLY: Nova Southeastern or Florida Coastal??

Postby NYC Law » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:45 pm

FeelTheHeat wrote:
NYC Law wrote:
maxm2764 wrote:OMG, tax guy is back. I ran here.


He's been back.

His advice is still slowly creeping towards 'good', but it still has a long way to go.


Like I said, if you cut through all the crap of his post he's pretty much saying the same thing we are. But we are assholes.


Can you blame him? You guys were pretty hard on him...

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kapital98
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Re: PLEASE HELP QUICKLY: Nova Southeastern or Florida Coastal??

Postby kapital98 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:05 pm

bk1 wrote:This might just be you trolling, but I am going to give a serious answer because thousands of other kids make the same decision every year.

donlocke wrote:Edited to add: Please save your "retake the lsat" "don't go to either one of these schools" comments. One of these schools is happening. Please just help me make this difficult decision.


These are really your only options. One of the schools you are looking at places less than half its class into full time lawyer jobs and the other won't say how many of their grads get full time lawyer jobs (source: --LinkRemoved--). You would be taking on over a hundred thousand dollars in debt to go to a school where you have, at best a 50/50 chance of being a full time lawyer. This doesn't even get into the fact that you will have a very very hard time paying off your debt with the type of salaries that grads from these schools get.

You really need to either retake the LSAT or reconsider law school. Right now, the options you have are not reasonable or financially feasible. Would you take on a bunch of debt for a car if you would have a very low chance of paying it off? Of course you wouldn't and that is why you shouldn't go to these schools.


Two years of employment statistics in a recession? How does that prove your point? Having data is nice but this is simply too small of a data set to make an intelligent choice. You literally can't even make a linear regression out of the data. You might as well blindfold yourself, throw a dart at a dartboard, and claim whether the OP should go to school. Also, the data is regarding employment after 9 months -- not a person's chance at being a full time lawyer.

The OP should be careful but should also take your advice with a block of salt. If it's not a flame this person needs real advice they can use.

(Note: I didn't read past page one of the thread.)

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NYC Law
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Re: PLEASE HELP QUICKLY: Nova Southeastern or Florida Coastal??

Postby NYC Law » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:10 pm

kapital98 wrote:
Two years of employment statistics in a recession? How does that prove your point? Having data is nice but this is simply too small of a data set to make an intelligent choice. You literally can't even make a linear regression out of the data. You might as well blindfold yourself, throw a dart at a dartboard, and claim whether the OP should go to school. Also, the data is regarding employment after 9 months -- not a person's chance at being a full time lawyer.

The OP should be careful but should also take your advice with a block of salt. If it's not a flame this person needs real advice they can use.

(Note: I didn't read past page one of the thread.)


All data pre recession is just about as bad for these schools...
Here's 2005 - http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/composite.pdf
About half the class at these schools even got jobs as lawyers, part-time/temp status unknown.

taxguy
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Re: PLEASE HELP QUICKLY: Nova Southeastern or Florida Coastal??

Postby taxguy » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:21 pm

Folks, there are four pages here, so far, and I am sure it will keep going for a bit. At least 90%+ of you have advocated either retaking the LSAT or not going to law school. So what's my beef with this advice? You don't know either the poster, his situation or even are very familiar with the schools involved.

Maybe he took the LSAT four times for all you know and can't improve his score. Maybe he has job connections in South Florida. Maybe he had a fabulous undergrad GPA but bombed the LSAT and also seems to bomb standardized admission tests; thus, he might have a good chance to do well enough in law school to transfer. Maybe he won't be paying for law school and graduate debt free, and Yes, maybe he shouldn't go to these school too. Not only are there many factors about the OP that you don't know,but you probably don't know anything about NOVA,which incidentally has a very decent reputation in south florida and among judges, DAs etc, although admittedly preliminary data from both schools do indicate a lack of job success.

My point is that I object to ad hoc advice like, "retake the LSAT or don 't go to law school" without knowing more about the OP or his/her situation. If you want to suggest that first and then discuss the merits of his question, fine.
Last edited by taxguy on Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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bk1
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Re: PLEASE HELP QUICKLY: Nova Southeastern or Florida Coastal??

Postby bk1 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:28 pm

kapital98 wrote:Two years of employment statistics in a recession? How does that prove your point? Having data is nice but this is simply too small of a data set to make an intelligent choice. You literally can't even make a linear regression out of the data. You might as well blindfold yourself, throw a dart at a dartboard, and claim whether the OP should go to school. Also, the data is regarding employment after 9 months -- not a person's chance at being a full time lawyer.

The OP should be careful but should also take your advice with a block of salt. If it's not a flame this person needs real advice they can use.

(Note: I didn't read past page one of the thread.)


As NYC Law said, the data for those schools has always been that bad. I used the most recent data on LST because it gives a good idea of how things are and LST displays it in an easy to read format. When half of a law school's graduating class gets full time lawyer positions within 9 months, I'd say that is a pretty good estimate of one's chances of becoming a full time lawyer coming out of that school.

The real advice they can use is to retake the LSAT.

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bk1
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Re: PLEASE HELP QUICKLY: Nova Southeastern or Florida Coastal??

Postby bk1 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:31 pm

taxguy wrote:Folks, there are four pages here, so far, and I am sure it will keep going for a bit. At least 90% of you have advocated either retaking the LSAT or not going to law school. So what's my beef with this advice? You don't know either the poster, his situation or even are very familiar with the schools involved.

Maybe he took the LSAT four times for all you know and can't improve his score. Maybe he has job connections in South Florida. Maybe he had a fabulous undergrad GPA but bombed the LSAT and also seems to bomb standardized admission tests; thus, he might have a good chance to do well enough in law school to transfer. Maybe he won't be paying for law school and graduate debt free, and Yes, maybe he shouldn't go to these school too. Not only are there many factors about the OP that you don't know,but you probably don't know anything about NOVA,which incidentally has a very decent reputation in south florida and among judges, DAs etc.

My point is that I object to advice like, "retake the LSAT or don 't go to law school" without knowing more about the OP or his/her situation. If you want to suggest that first and then discuss the merits of his question, fine.


Nova's reputation doesn't make it so that more jobs are available for their grads. There is literally a finite amount of jobs available for an amount of grads that far exceeds the amount jobs. Nova, being at the bottom of the FL law school totem pole, gets shafted accordingly no matter how much those judges/DAs claim to love Nova.

The reason that retake/don'tgo are reasonable is because while yes there can be mitigating factors, in most cases there are not. Very few people have their law school paid for by their parents, very few people have guaranteed jobs after graduation, etc etc. We are giving advice to the majority who really should retake or don't go. It's also pretty lolworthy that you believe having a high GPA means anything about transferring considering the fact that 90% of the time transferring isn't going to be an option.

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: PLEASE HELP QUICKLY: Nova Southeastern or Florida Coastal??

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:58 pm

This thread has so many throwbacks

1. NorB foundations

2. Kapital posting about economics (lol)

3. Taxguy (whose posts are actually quite good, although maybe a little sugarcoated, but that's completely understandable because he's an actual professional)

With that said, NOVA actually has a reputation as a real law school (even if only locally, and just an okay one) whereas Coastal is looked at as the Madoff of educational institutions. But understand, OP, in this economy there are a very small number of circumstances in which going to either school would not be a very regrettable decision. A recent article just showed how in 2010 there were .49 jobs opening up for every law school graduate. Those numbers are disproportionately going to affect the lower end schools like NOVA.

Consider this: If you go to NOVA your pecking order in the only market available to you is roughly something like this
1. Graduates from the T-14 who want to go to Miami
2. Any other upscale T-1 with contacts
3. UF
3. Miami
5. FSU kids with contacts
6. FIU
7. NOVA

Semantics of the exact order aside, it's going to be very difficult to find legal work on your own merit. That leaves you the option of either finishing at the very very top of your class (not probable, no offense) and actually getting hired by a big firm or somehow winning the networking lottery (again, unlikely) and maybe getting hired by a faithful alum. There's a real good chance you'll end up doing something you can do with your undergrad degree 3 years later and a lifetime of 1,200$ a month loan payments.

If you have a good reason to be going to law school ("I'm GOING to beat the odds and fulfill my dreams!" does not count) then sure, all this is for naught. For instance, if you're positive you know a firm that would hire you upon graduation, or your parents are paying for it, then maybe. Although the latter I would still call a bad investment.

It's really worth sitting down, looking at the reality of the situation completely apart from your dreams and expectations and desires, and scare yourself. Seriously, freak yourself out for a little while. Understand that the worst case scenario is also by far the most likely scenario.
Last edited by Mickey Quicknumbers on Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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gwuorbust
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Re: PLEASE HELP QUICKLY: Nova Southeastern or Florida Coastal??

Postby gwuorbust » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:02 pm

taxguy wrote:Folks, there are four pages here, so far, and I am sure it will keep going for a bit. At least 90%+ of you have advocated either retaking the LSAT or not going to law school. So what's my beef with this advice? You don't know either the poster, his situation or even are very familiar with the schools involved.

Maybe he took the LSAT four times for all you know and can't improve his score. Maybe he has job connections in South Florida. Maybe he had a fabulous undergrad GPA but bombed the LSAT and also seems to bomb standardized admission tests; thus, he might have a good chance to do well enough in law school to transfer. Maybe he won't be paying for law school and graduate debt free, and Yes, maybe he shouldn't go to these school too. Not only are there many factors about the OP that you don't know,but you probably don't know anything about NOVA,which incidentally has a very decent reputation in south florida and among judges, DAs etc, although admittedly preliminary data from both schools do indicate a lack of job success.

My point is that I object to ad hoc advice like, "retake the LSAT or don 't go to law school" without knowing more about the OP or his/her situation. If you want to suggest that first and then discuss the merits of his question, fine.


I had forgotten that one's options in life are law school or die. since OP doesn't want to die OH FUCK HE MUST GO TO LAW SCHOOL.

flcath
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Re: PLEASE HELP QUICKLY: Nova Southeastern or Florida Coastal??

Postby flcath » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:44 pm

gwuorbust wrote:
taxguy wrote:Folks, there are four pages here, so far, and I am sure it will keep going for a bit. At least 90%+ of you have advocated either retaking the LSAT or not going to law school. So what's my beef with this advice? You don't know either the poster, his situation or even are very familiar with the schools involved.

Maybe he took the LSAT four times for all you know and can't improve his score. Maybe he has job connections in South Florida. Maybe he had a fabulous undergrad GPA but bombed the LSAT and also seems to bomb standardized admission tests; thus, he might have a good chance to do well enough in law school to transfer. Maybe he won't be paying for law school and graduate debt free, and Yes, maybe he shouldn't go to these school too. Not only are there many factors about the OP that you don't know,but you probably don't know anything about NOVA,which incidentally has a very decent reputation in south florida and among judges, DAs etc, although admittedly preliminary data from both schools do indicate a lack of job success.

My point is that I object to ad hoc advice like, "retake the LSAT or don 't go to law school" without knowing more about the OP or his/her situation. If you want to suggest that first and then discuss the merits of his question, fine.


I had forgotten that one's options in life are law school or die. since OP doesn't want to die OH FUCK HE MUST GO TO LAW SCHOOL.

Tbf, it is probably law school or waitressing for most T4 aspirants. I am not exaggerating in any way.

The best situated (obviously) are the ones who had great GPAs but poor LSATs, and they (I admit this is anecdotal) tend to have shit majors.

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: PLEASE HELP QUICKLY: Nova Southeastern or Florida Coastal??

Postby FeelTheHeat » Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:02 pm

Mickey dropping truth bombs.

Also, wtf happened to the tax guy we know and love? There's genuinely good advice dispensed in his posts.

duckmoney
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Re: PLEASE HELP QUICKLY: Nova Southeastern or Florida Coastal??

Postby duckmoney » Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:18 pm

FeelTheHeat wrote:Mickey dropping truth bombs.

Also, wtf happened to the tax guy we know and love? There's genuinely good advice dispensed in his posts.


Did he finally cut the cord?

WSJ_Law
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Re: PLEASE HELP QUICKLY: Nova Southeastern or Florida Coastal??

Postby WSJ_Law » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:15 pm

bump for lulz




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