LOCI advice for an MPBV v. lower T14

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
ernestborgnine
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:54 am

LOCI advice for an MPBV v. lower T14

Postby ernestborgnine » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:21 pm

I could use some input. I'm currently admitted at a lower T14 w/ $90k. BUT.. I may have a good chance to get off the waitlist at MPBV. I think MPBV would be significantly (but perhaps not enormously) better for meeting my goals: CoA clerkship, and biglaw appellate practice. I'm currently doing a LOCI to MPBV and am not sure whether I should put any $ conditions on accepting an offer there.

I'm inclined to ask for the 90k as a condition of accepting a waitlist offer at MPBV because I really think that the network and faculty of this particular lower T14 school is outstanding for what I want to do, and, based on the numbers that I have seen, am not entirely convinced that MPBV is worth 90k more. What say you, TLSers?

User avatar
pjo
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:14 pm

Re: LOCI advice for an MPBV v. lower T14

Postby pjo » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:24 pm

How badly do you want to go to MVPB? I guarantee you will not get in off the waitlist AND get any money, let alone 90k. Just ask yourself, why would they give you 90k when they could take someone else from the waitlist who will pay sticker?

User avatar
Magnolia
Posts: 548
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:06 pm

Re: LOCI advice for an MPBV v. lower T14

Postby Magnolia » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:31 pm

Worry about getting in first. Then worry about negotiating money. You have 0 leverage while you're on the WL.

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: LOCI advice for an MPBV v. lower T14

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:33 pm

ernestborgnine wrote:I could use some input. I'm currently admitted at a lower T14 w/ $90k. BUT.. I may have a good chance to get off the waitlist at MPBV. I think MPBV would be significantly (but perhaps not enormously) better for meeting my goals: CoA clerkship, and biglaw appellate practice. I'm currently doing a LOCI to MPBV and am not sure whether I should put any $ conditions on accepting an offer there.

I'm inclined to ask for the 90k as a condition of accepting a waitlist offer at MPBV because I really think that the network and faculty of this particular lower T14 school is outstanding for what I want to do, and, based on the numbers that I have seen, am not entirely convinced that MPBV is worth 90k more. What say you, TLSers?


First of all, there is little if any difference between MPBV, and DCN. In fact last year Duke placed a greater % of their grads into Fed. Clerkships than any other non top 3 - t14. Cornell placed the highest percentage into big law.

MVPB isn't worth 10K more, let a lone 90K. And you really aren't going to get 90K off a waitlist, at least at this point.

User avatar
Sentry
Posts: 1235
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:38 pm

Re: LOCI advice for an MPBV v. lower T14

Postby Sentry » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:10 pm

Texas trolling in OP. Still UT with 90k >>>>>bmvp sticker

ernestborgnine
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:54 am

Re: LOCI advice for an MPBV v. lower T14

Postby ernestborgnine » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:40 pm

In fact last year Duke placed a greater % of their grads into Fed. Clerkships than any other non top 3 - t14. Cornell placed the highest percentage into big law.


Sure, but what about when you limit that to CoA clerkships? Would a MPBV grad have a significantly better shot at the best judges on the CoA, the so called feeder judges (I know I know HYS dominate)? The answer has got to be yes, right? The school that I got into seems to do pretty well in the research I have done (in absolute numbers, not as a percentage of grads) and I think the faculty network is really good. I just can't stop thinking I'm going to be stuck behind all the T10 for the best clerkships.

And I know I have zero leverage on the WL. That's why part of me says I've got to just pay sticker if MPBV is significantly better. A top clerkship is a big priority for me.

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: LOCI advice for an MPBV v. lower T14

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:57 pm

ernestborgnine wrote:
In fact last year Duke placed a greater % of their grads into Fed. Clerkships than any other non top 3 - t14. Cornell placed the highest percentage into big law.


Sure, but what about when you limit that to CoA clerkships? Would a MPBV grad have a significantly better shot at the best judges on the CoA, the so called feeder judges (I know I know HYS dominate)? The answer has got to be yes, right? The school that I got into seems to do pretty well in the research I have done (in absolute numbers, not as a percentage of grads) and I think the faculty network is really good. I just can't stop thinking I'm going to be stuck behind all the T10 for the best clerkships.

And I know I have zero leverage on the WL. That's why part of me says I've got to just pay sticker if MPBV is significantly better. A top clerkship is a big priority for me.


The answer has got to be no. They care much more about your grades, your letters of rec., etc etc.

The MPV distinction is a bunch of internet bullshit.

dabbadon8
Posts: 767
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 2:17 am

Re: LOCI advice for an MPBV v. lower T14

Postby dabbadon8 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:10 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
ernestborgnine wrote:
In fact last year Duke placed a greater % of their grads into Fed. Clerkships than any other non top 3 - t14. Cornell placed the highest percentage into big law.


Sure, but what about when you limit that to CoA clerkships? Would a MPBV grad have a significantly better shot at the best judges on the CoA, the so called feeder judges (I know I know HYS dominate)? The answer has got to be yes, right? The school that I got into seems to do pretty well in the research I have done (in absolute numbers, not as a percentage of grads) and I think the faculty network is really good. I just can't stop thinking I'm going to be stuck behind all the T10 for the best clerkships.

And I know I have zero leverage on the WL. That's why part of me says I've got to just pay sticker if MPBV is significantly better. A top clerkship is a big priority for me.


The answer has got to be no. They care much more about your grades, your letters of rec., etc etc.

The MPV distinction is a bunch of internet bullshit.


Yeah, it messes with your head. Same with the rankings. Between MVPBDNC they all move around each year in placement and ranking. I wouldn't worry about MVPB vs. lower t14 unless you are talking gtown/texas and even then with 90k it's not a bad call.

User avatar
fatdouche
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 10:01 pm

Re: LOCI advice for an MPBV v. lower T14

Postby fatdouche » Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:21 pm

Just wait till you get in. Then worry abotu money

fingersxd
Posts: 643
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:04 pm

Re: LOCI advice for an MPBV v. lower T14

Postby fingersxd » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:51 pm

I think GT/TX are sort of separate from the other "t14" schools (i.e. not as prestigious). That said, 90k is enough that you should go there instead. As previous posters noted, money off the WL (at leadt in any amount worth really discussing) is HIGHLY unlikely
Last edited by fingersxd on Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Stringer Bell
Posts: 1924
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:43 pm

Re: LOCI advice for an MPBV v. lower T14

Postby Stringer Bell » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:57 pm

Sentry wrote:Texas trolling in OP. Still UT with 90k >>>>>bmvp sticker


I think you got a little happy with the greater than signs. I'm pretty sure I'd take UT in that scenario as well, but paying an extra 90k for MVPB isn't ludicrous.

dabbadon8
Posts: 767
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 2:17 am

Re: LOCI advice for an MPBV v. lower T14

Postby dabbadon8 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:00 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:
Sentry wrote:Texas trolling in OP. Still UT with 90k >>>>>bmvp sticker


I think you got a little happy with the greater than signs. I'm pretty sure I'd take UT in that scenario as well, but paying an extra 90k for MVPB isn't ludicrous.


I think it is, unless you are independently wealthy or have some extreme reason you need to be near one of those schools.

User avatar
Stringer Bell
Posts: 1924
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:43 pm

Re: LOCI advice for an MPBV v. lower T14

Postby Stringer Bell » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:07 pm

dabbadon8 wrote:I think it is, unless you are independently wealthy or have some extreme reason you need to be near one of those schools.


MVP might place another 20-25% of their class into biglaw than UT does. Paying an extra 90k for that isn't that crazy. Especially for someone that doesn't want to live in TX.

fingersxd
Posts: 643
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:04 pm

Re: LOCI advice for an MPBV v. lower T14

Postby fingersxd » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:18 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:
dabbadon8 wrote:I think it is, unless you are independently wealthy or have some extreme reason you need to be near one of those schools.


MVP might place another 20-25% of their class into biglaw than UT does. Paying an extra 90k for that isn't that crazy. Especially for someone that doesn't want to live in TX.


Would have to assume OP isn't opposed to being in TX (it appears to be his top choice as of now). BUT, if s/he is, then yes I could understand leaving the $ behind. In all fairness I think you could get something (say 5-10k/yr) off the WL...which will narrow the gap a bit, but just know that regardless, it will be a TON of $ to leve on the table.

Btw, does that 90k include CoL differences? I strongly suspect Austin will be cheaper than most of the other options (but I could be wrong).

User avatar
TUP
Posts: 255
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:00 am

Re: LOCI advice for an MPBV v. lower T14

Postby TUP » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:42 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
ernestborgnine wrote:
In fact last year Duke placed a greater % of their grads into Fed. Clerkships than any other non top 3 - t14. Cornell placed the highest percentage into big law.


Sure, but what about when you limit that to CoA clerkships? Would a MPBV grad have a significantly better shot at the best judges on the CoA, the so called feeder judges (I know I know HYS dominate)? The answer has got to be yes, right? The school that I got into seems to do pretty well in the research I have done (in absolute numbers, not as a percentage of grads) and I think the faculty network is really good. I just can't stop thinking I'm going to be stuck behind all the T10 for the best clerkships.

And I know I have zero leverage on the WL. That's why part of me says I've got to just pay sticker if MPBV is significantly better. A top clerkship is a big priority for me.


The answer has got to be no. They care much more about your grades, your letters of rec., etc etc.

The MPV distinction is a bunch of internet bullshit.


+1 when you look at NLJ250 and clerkship stats over the past few years. It's pretty amazing people let an internet message board acronym affect a decision like this when that data is available.

czelede
Posts: 689
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:54 pm

Re: LOCI advice for an MPBV v. lower T14

Postby czelede » Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:02 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
ernestborgnine wrote:
In fact last year Duke placed a greater % of their grads into Fed. Clerkships than any other non top 3 - t14. Cornell placed the highest percentage into big law.


Sure, but what about when you limit that to CoA clerkships? Would a MPBV grad have a significantly better shot at the best judges on the CoA, the so called feeder judges (I know I know HYS dominate)? The answer has got to be yes, right? The school that I got into seems to do pretty well in the research I have done (in absolute numbers, not as a percentage of grads) and I think the faculty network is really good. I just can't stop thinking I'm going to be stuck behind all the T10 for the best clerkships.

And I know I have zero leverage on the WL. That's why part of me says I've got to just pay sticker if MPBV is significantly better. A top clerkship is a big priority for me.


The answer has got to be no. They care much more about your grades, your letters of rec., etc etc.

The MPV distinction is a bunch of internet bullshit.


Is the CCN distinction a bunch of bullshit too?

I always wonder about this. People say "I'm taking P over N, or P over Chi" and TLS is kind of like "Yeah that's alright." People say "I'm taking N/Chi over Columbia" and TLS replies with "Makes sense." But when someone comes out with P vs Columbia it becomes "CCN >> MVP! No question about it!" I always end up thinking about things in terms of tiers and then I feel like I've just been on TLS for too long.

protein
Posts: 228
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:44 am

Re: LOCI advice for an MPBV v. lower T14

Postby protein » Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:23 pm

so OP is actually referring to UT

this is why I call it the T13 now, less ambiguity

czelede wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
ernestborgnine wrote:
In fact last year Duke placed a greater % of their grads into Fed. Clerkships than any other non top 3 - t14. Cornell placed the highest percentage into big law.


Sure, but what about when you limit that to CoA clerkships? Would a MPBV grad have a significantly better shot at the best judges on the CoA, the so called feeder judges (I know I know HYS dominate)? The answer has got to be yes, right? The school that I got into seems to do pretty well in the research I have done (in absolute numbers, not as a percentage of grads) and I think the faculty network is really good. I just can't stop thinking I'm going to be stuck behind all the T10 for the best clerkships.

And I know I have zero leverage on the WL. That's why part of me says I've got to just pay sticker if MPBV is significantly better. A top clerkship is a big priority for me.


The answer has got to be no. They care much more about your grades, your letters of rec., etc etc.

The MPV distinction is a bunch of internet bullshit.


Is the CCN distinction a bunch of bullshit too?

I always wonder about this. People say "I'm taking P over N, or P over Chi" and TLS is kind of like "Yeah that's alright." People say "I'm taking N/Chi over Columbia" and TLS replies with "Makes sense." But when someone comes out with P vs Columbia it becomes "CCN >> MVP! No question about it!" I always end up thinking about things in terms of tiers and then I feel like I've just been on TLS for too long.


IMO the tiers are YHS, CCN, then the rest down to Cornell

Just looking at 75th percentiles for LSAT (link: http://www.top-law-schools.com/rankings.html), we see that CCN have 75% LSAT's a tad bit higher than everyone below them, YHS are given (their 75th percentile GPA's are a good bit higher than everyone else), and there isn't much distinction between UM-Cornell's stats

But that's just my two cents

heretostay88
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:38 pm

Re: LOCI advice for an MPBV v. lower T14

Postby heretostay88 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:40 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
ernestborgnine wrote:I could use some input. I'm currently admitted at a lower T14 w/ $90k. BUT.. I may have a good chance to get off the waitlist at MPBV. I think MPBV would be significantly (but perhaps not enormously) better for meeting my goals: CoA clerkship, and biglaw appellate practice. I'm currently doing a LOCI to MPBV and am not sure whether I should put any $ conditions on accepting an offer there.

I'm inclined to ask for the 90k as a condition of accepting a waitlist offer at MPBV because I really think that the network and faculty of this particular lower T14 school is outstanding for what I want to do, and, based on the numbers that I have seen, am not entirely convinced that MPBV is worth 90k more. What say you, TLSers?


First of all, there is little if any difference between MPBV, and DCN. In fact last year Duke placed a greater % of their grads into Fed. Clerkships than any other non top 3 - t14. Cornell placed the highest percentage into big law.

MVPB isn't worth 10K more, let a lone 90K. And you really aren't going to get 90K off a waitlist, at least at this point.



lol this is very poor flame

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: LOCI advice for an MPBV v. lower T14

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:50 pm

czelede wrote:Is the CCN distinction a bunch of bullshit too?

I always wonder about this. People say "I'm taking P over N, or P over Chi" and TLS is kind of like "Yeah that's alright." People say "I'm taking N/Chi over Columbia" and TLS replies with "Makes sense." But when someone comes out with P vs Columbia it becomes "CCN >> MVP! No question about it!" I always end up thinking about things in terms of tiers and then I feel like I've just been on TLS for too long.


No that's more real for most jobs, but the distinction for clerkships doesn't really exist. Col and NYU are pretty shitty for clerkships. For big law there is a definite placement gap, of probably about 10-15% of class rank (though the close to the top the less the gap is).

It's just not worth as much money as people claim it is. IMO 45K-60K scholarship is enough to compensate between CCN and MVPBDNC.

heretostay88
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:38 pm

Re: LOCI advice for an MPBV v. lower T14

Postby heretostay88 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:15 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
czelede wrote:Is the CCN distinction a bunch of bullshit too?

I always wonder about this. People say "I'm taking P over N, or P over Chi" and TLS is kind of like "Yeah that's alright." People say "I'm taking N/Chi over Columbia" and TLS replies with "Makes sense." But when someone comes out with P vs Columbia it becomes "CCN >> MVP! No question about it!" I always end up thinking about things in terms of tiers and then I feel like I've just been on TLS for too long.


No that's more real for most jobs, but the distinction for clerkships doesn't really exist. Col and NYU are pretty shitty for clerkships. For big law there is a definite placement gap, of probably about 10-15% of class rank (though the close to the top the less the gap is).

It's just not worth as much money as people claim it is. IMO 45K-60K scholarship is enough to compensate between CCN and MVPBDNC.



you must go to one of dcng

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: LOCI advice for an MPBV v. lower T14

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:17 pm

heretostay88 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
czelede wrote:Is the CCN distinction a bunch of bullshit too?

I always wonder about this. People say "I'm taking P over N, or P over Chi" and TLS is kind of like "Yeah that's alright." People say "I'm taking N/Chi over Columbia" and TLS replies with "Makes sense." But when someone comes out with P vs Columbia it becomes "CCN >> MVP! No question about it!" I always end up thinking about things in terms of tiers and then I feel like I've just been on TLS for too long.


No that's more real for most jobs, but the distinction for clerkships doesn't really exist. Col and NYU are pretty shitty for clerkships. For big law there is a definite placement gap, of probably about 10-15% of class rank (though the close to the top the less the gap is).

It's just not worth as much money as people claim it is. IMO 45K-60K scholarship is enough to compensate between CCN and MVPBDNC.



you must go to one of dcng


If I wanted an xo troll, I'd post under my pumo I'd go to xo.

heretostay88
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:38 pm

Re: LOCI advice for an MPBV v. lower T14

Postby heretostay88 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:26 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
heretostay88 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
czelede wrote:Is the CCN distinction a bunch of bullshit too?

I always wonder about this. People say "I'm taking P over N, or P over Chi" and TLS is kind of like "Yeah that's alright." People say "I'm taking N/Chi over Columbia" and TLS replies with "Makes sense." But when someone comes out with P vs Columbia it becomes "CCN >> MVP! No question about it!" I always end up thinking about things in terms of tiers and then I feel like I've just been on TLS for too long.


No that's more real for most jobs, but the distinction for clerkships doesn't really exist. Col and NYU are pretty shitty for clerkships. For big law there is a definite placement gap, of probably about 10-15% of class rank (though the close to the top the less the gap is).

It's just not worth as much money as people claim it is. IMO 45K-60K scholarship is enough to compensate between CCN and MVPBDNC.



you must go to one of dcng


If I wanted an xo troll, I'd post under my pumo I'd go to xo.


not trolling. you are delusional if you think dcng is on the same level of mvp. besides the 10% differential in biglaw placement and even bigger differential in regular clerkship placement what say you about the differences in supreme court clerkships. or the mid career differential between the two groups

o i see you go to northwestern.

User avatar
TUP
Posts: 255
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:00 am

Re: LOCI advice for an MPBV v. lower T14

Postby TUP » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:38 pm

heretostay88 wrote:not trolling. you are delusional if you think dcng is on the same level of mvp. besides the 10% differential in biglaw placement and even bigger differential in regular clerkship placement what say you about the differences in supreme court clerkships. or the mid career differential between the two groups

o i see you go to northwestern.


Link?

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: LOCI advice for an MPBV v. lower T14

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:41 pm

heretostay88 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
heretostay88 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
No that's more real for most jobs, but the distinction for clerkships doesn't really exist. Col and NYU are pretty shitty for clerkships. For big law there is a definite placement gap, of probably about 10-15% of class rank (though the close to the top the less the gap is).

It's just not worth as much money as people claim it is. IMO 45K-60K scholarship is enough to compensate between CCN and MVPBDNC.



you must go to one of dcng


If I wanted an xo troll, I'd post under my pumo I'd go to xo.


not trolling. you are delusional if you think dcng is on the same level of mvp. besides the 10% differential in biglaw placement and even bigger differential in regular clerkship placement what say you about the differences in supreme court clerkships. or the mid career differential between the two groups

o i see you go to northwestern.


DN routinely outplace MV in big law.

U mad?

heretostay88
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:38 pm

Re: LOCI advice for an MPBV v. lower T14

Postby heretostay88 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:59 pm

mad at your bologne? lol




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests