Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

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blsingindisguise
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Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:08 am

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Postby blsingindisguise » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:54 pm

areyouinsane wrote:I have a hard time understanding why so much anger is directed at those who point out what a mistake going to a TTT law school will be. The fact is that even when the economy was good, these schools still had utterly abysmal placement, mostly in small-time gutter firms doing work like landlord tenant or ambulance chasing, etc. If these schools charged reasonable tuition (like 5 K a year), no one would really care, but Brooklyn and the toilet called SH charge the same as Yale for their comical "law degrees," if that's what you want to call them.

Also get ready to lose that $$$, as these schools love to "stack" all the scholly kids together so that most lose the ride after 1st semester. The old bait n' switch.

It isn't "mean" to point out the dismal prosepcts coming out of these schools, it's simply the cold, hard truth. If these were/are the best schools you can get into, you're probably better off just admitting right now that law probably "isn't your thing" and become a hairdresser, truck driver, or some other menial job. Why not just take a 30-40 K job in one of these areas now, rather than wasting 3 years to end up with that salary in 2015 or whatever?


If you're going to claim to be the voice of hard, cynical truth, don't go spreading urban legends about scholarship stacking -- at least at BLS, it's not done. It's a really stupid myth too -- stacking simply isn't necessary because the LSAT and GPA are already such imperfect predictors of law school success, so it's just inevitable that some people will lose scholarships. The myth is mostly the result of (1) bitter people looking for an excuse for why they lost their scholarships and (2) the fact that at many of these schools half or more of all students are on some kind of scholarship, so it can often seem like "almost everyone in my section" has scholarship (not to mention that some people will lie out of embarrassment).

MrAnon
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Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Postby MrAnon » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:48 am

Stacking definitely happens, though I cannot speak for BLS. It definitely happens unquestionably at other schools.

blsingindisguise
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Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:08 am

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Postby blsingindisguise » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:06 am

MrAnon wrote:Stacking definitely happens, though I cannot speak for BLS. It definitely happens unquestionably at other schools.


Evidence?

HeavenWood
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Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Postby HeavenWood » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:52 am

btr77 wrote:Brooklyn started with a 22k offer, and after I withdrew increased to 30k, then the full 47k. In that time I had committed to Seton Hall with a 35k offer. I have paid my initial seat deposit at SH, and now I'm stuck...

Some more info:

- Stipulations:
SHU - Renewable if top 50%, all or nothing.
BLS - 100% if in top 40%, 75% if below 40% but within top 50%, 50% if below 50% but upper 65%.

- I will be moving back to NJ, so I plan on living at home the first year to start. That makes year 1 a wash between what I would owe SH and Brooklyn's housing costs. Realistically, any financial comparison starts after year one assuming I retain all scholarships.
- My plan is to practice in NJ, although if the opportunity presented itself in NY I would not be opposed to it. However, right now it seems that the NJ market is slightly less saturated and may present an easier time getting a job out of SH than competing in NY coming out of Brooklyn. Does anyone know if Brooklyn places well in NJ?
- Seton Hall has risen in the rankings (taken with a HUGE grain of salt, I know) to overtake Brooklyn. Not sure how far that goes.
- I had initially tried to negotiate more out of SHU using full tuition offers from Saint John's and Hofstra as leverage. I was told nothing could me done. Does it look stupid, or worse, disrespectful, to inquire again in light of this new offer even AFTER submitting an initial deposit?
- I live in DC and need to let Brooklyn know by Monday. Does this warrant a trip up to NYC to visit and meet with someone?

I'm really desperate for advice here guys, I appreciate your help.


You would commute from North Jersey to Brooklyn every day? :shock:

btr77
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:40 pm

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Postby btr77 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:15 am

For the commuting question, No. I was set up with housing at Brooklyn. In my previous post I had stated that after I committed to SH I would be communiting for my first year before getting an apartment. After Brooklyn offered the full ride, I compared the two and came to the conclusion that my first year was going to be a wash because even with the full ride, my living expenses in Brooklyn would be more or less equal to what I would owe SH. Therefore, I figured any real financial saving would come after the first year. However, the more I thought about it, the idea of commuting didn't seem ideal to me, and I think I may have even underestimated the cost of a 45 min trip each way 5 days a week (assuming my classes didn't run into rush hour traffic.)

Again, for a lot of reasons, Brooklyn just made more sense.


And to the MANY who lurk these boards with TT/TTT warnings; I really truly appreciate your input and completely understand what you all are hoping to accomplish. It is very easy to be naive and slip into a mediocre regional school, skate by for three years, and become a law school horror story that so many of us read about. But again, I have worked professionally for the last three years. I have been able to save a substantial amount of money, I understand the risk involved and, for what its worth, consider myself a very mature/polished first year student. Law school is a job, and not something I plan to take lightly. That said, I am being offered full-tuition and housing assistance. My financial risk has been greatly minimized and it is my sincere hope, as many others, that the market will have turned positively after three years. It doesn't seem like it, but three years IS a long time.

Finally, attending a SH or a Brooklyn is NOT an automatic license for failure. I worked at a large NJ law firm (150 +) throughout summers in college. Their staff was rich with YOUNG Seton Hall, Rutgers, Brooklyn, and Cardozo graduates. Of course there were a ton of Fordham, NYU, Cornell, etc., but my point is that its not IMPOSSIBLE. I was there for three summers, and EVERY summer out of the 7 summer associates, a good 2-4 were SH/R; salaries started at 135,000, and this was even after the fall of 2008.

Obviously your options grow substantially at a higher ranked school, but I truly believe that you can be very successful if the price is right and you place well, network properly, and hustle for 3 years at a lower/regional school. I don't think that is an ill-advised sentiment, I just don't. So while I think a lot of these warnings are fair and on point, sometimes they are overly harsh and unnecessarily critical in tone which only takes away from the advice. And finally, while these 'blanket' warnings are sometimes helpful, I really don't think you can completely generalize. Law school success or failure is really case by case, with a lot of factors weighing either side.

So thank you all for the input, and good luck to everyone at your respective schools.

DK33
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:25 pm

Re: Seton Hall 35k VS. Brooklyn Full Tuit.? HELP TLS

Postby DK33 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:28 pm

blsingindisguise wrote:
MrAnon wrote:Stacking definitely happens, though I cannot speak for BLS. It definitely happens unquestionably at other schools.


Evidence?



Who needs evidence when you have conjectures, assertions, opinions, speculation, theory and fear mongering? Evidence is for people that are after what's true in the world. Obviously, and especially on these boards, evidence isn't needed.




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