BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

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jonillson
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby jonillson » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:27 am

Rawlsian wrote:
jonillson wrote:
Rawlsian wrote:It's accurate to say Vandy places at least as well in NY as BU, and I believe it's reasonable to say Vandy places a little better.

It's hard to know for sure without knowing firms' particular GPA-cutoffs regarding each school, but slightly more New York firms interview at Vandy than BU. That difference is magnified when you consider that a greater percentage of BU students traditionally head to New York and BU's class size is close to 100 students bigger. Thus, by my calculations, 2.16 BU students head to NY for every 1 NY firm that interviews at the school, compared with 1.05 Vandy students for every 1 NY firm that interviews at the school. Note that firms will travel a greater distance and in greater numbers (proportionally) to recruit Vandy students.


Are you suggesting that there's a meaningful relationship between the number of students that travel to a city to off-campus interview and the number of firms that travel from that city to OCI? That...seems like a stretch (I'm being a bit generous).


I think you misunderstood my point. "By head to NY" I didn't mean students who travel to NY to off-campus interview at NY firms, but rather students who work in NY post-graduation. In fact, I factored in the placement data you just linked from LST to figure the amount of firms that interview at a school/number of students who work in NY post-graduation (the 2.16 and 1.05 numbers). Those numbers also imply what Rad Law brought up: fewer students per firm mean less competition for jobs.


I'm having a hard time following. Let's say ten NYC firms interview at BU's OCI, and fifteen NYC firms interview at Vandy's. If each of the firms that interviews at BU hires 2 students, and each of the firms that interviews at Vandy hires 1 student, how can you conclude that there is less competition at Vandy? There would be fifteen NYC firms looking to fill fifteen NYC jobs at Vandy's OCI compared with ten NYC firms looking to fill twenty NYC jobs at BU. And these numbers assume Vandy's NYC firm advantage at OCI is 50%, which it's probably not (you said "slightly more"; I don't have access to the exact numbers).

Rawlsian wrote:I will grant that there is another inference that can be drawn from the 1.05 and 2.16 numbers. Perhaps since more BU students head to NY, and fewer NY firms interview at BU than Vandy, then firms higher deeper in BU's class--for example, each firm highers 2 instead of 1. However, if that was the case I would expect fewer firms to interview at Vandy, not more.


Why would you "expect fewer firms to interview at Vandy" if "firms higher deeper in BU's class"? I don't understand.

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jonillson
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby jonillson » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:38 am

OP, I don't think you can bank on BU upping your scholly much more than $5k/year. So, best case:

UIUC: $75,332
BU: $135,996
Vandy: $181,992

I think UIUC is the best choice, unless you absolutely must be in a city, in which case I think it's a toss-up between BU and Vandy. You're not going to find that either is clearly the best choice at those COAs.

TheSteelKid
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby TheSteelKid » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:15 pm

jonillson wrote:OP, I don't think you can bank on BU upping your scholly much more than $5k/year. So, best case:

UIUC: $75,332
BU: $135,996
Vandy: $181,992

I think UIUC is the best choice, unless you absolutely must be in a city, in which case I think it's a toss-up between BU and Vandy. You're not going to find that either is clearly the best choice at those COAs.



I agree with your points here. Im gonna let Vandy pass on by and hopefully i get the scholly increase from BU that im looking for, or else UIUC it is.

wdk3618
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby wdk3618 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:24 pm

have you been to C-U? I think you may be pleasantly surprised. Theres tons of things to do, and of course theres the fact that everything is so much cheaper than living in a city. Im attending uiuc in the fall pm if you have any questions about the area.

TheSteelKid
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby TheSteelKid » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:23 pm

I have visited and was pleasantly surprised. Low cost of living is great and so is low tuition! But i would like to be in a fun city and have a better chance at biglaw....hence why im keeping BU a possibility

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Corwin
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby Corwin » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:07 pm

TheSteelKid wrote:So ive submitted my deposit to BU and am desperately hoping I receive more money. If not, it looks like Im UIUC bound. UIUC will only cost me 30k over 3 years but with only 10k a year it looks like BU will cost around 100k over three years....i need more $$!

You also need to consider the massive cost of living difference between Champaign and Boston. With a roommate you can pay less then $350 a month to rent a solid place in Champaign or Urbana. In Boston you're looking at $800 with roommate, over $1K a month without. That's another $20K in debt due to rent alone if you go to BU. If you don't care whether you practice in Chicago or Boston/NYC and you are debt averse, UIUC is a much better choice.

In terms of being in a fun city, Champaign is actually pretty solid (I did my undergrad there). Take a look at the thread where current law students are answering questions. If I recall they did a pretty solid job of covering what they did for fun. I've spent some time in Boston as well and of course there are more things to do there. But on the downside, you don't really form close relationships as fast in a city like that. One of the great things about the midwest is that people get to know each other because you spend a lot of time together playing cards and drinking. :P

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drylo
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby drylo » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:26 pm

jonillson wrote:
Rawlsian wrote:I will grant that there is another inference that can be drawn from the 1.05 and 2.16 numbers. Perhaps since more BU students head to NY, and fewer NY firms interview at BU than Vandy, then firms higher deeper in BU's class--for example, each firm highers 2 instead of 1. However, if that was the case I would expect fewer firms to interview at Vandy, not more.


Why would you "expect fewer firms to interview at Vandy" if "firms higher deeper in BU's class"? I don't understand.


I know OP has ruled out Vandy, but I just can't leave this softball hanging. You would expect more firms to interview at the schools where they would hire deepest into the class. I'm not even sure that qualifies as logical reasoning--it's just common sense. For example, more firms go to Harvard's OCI than Akron's.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:44 pm

OP- I know you have ruled out Vandy, but I'm going to say this anyway.

If you are going all out for a high paying job, Vanderbilt over BU every day of the week. For NYC? The NLJ 250 usually hires more deeply into Vanderbilt than BU (enough to compensate for any COA differences between the two), and there is no indication that NYC would be any different than the rest of the country.

If you want a good JD, but are willing to deal with a higher chance of striking out at high paying jobs, UIUC every day of the week. It's a great school that won't leave you unemployed but more likely without an summer associate position somewhere. Personally, if I had to cover the COA minus scholarships out of loans, I would go with UIUC; most people on tls.com, however, are not debt adverse and would go with Vanderbilt (which is not a completely off the wall decision).

I see no reason to keep BU in the picture if BU and Vanderbilt cost almost the same.

TheSteelKid
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby TheSteelKid » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:15 pm

The issue here is that BU has mentioned the potential of a scholarship increase. With prices as they stand, its unlikely i ould go to either Bu or vandy...but u guys sure are making me feel vandy is a bettr choice out of the two.

TheSteelKid
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby TheSteelKid » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:27 pm

TheSteelKid wrote:The issue here is that BU has mentioned the potential of a scholarship increase. With prices as they stand, its unlikely i ould go to either Bu or vandy...but u guys sure are making me feel vandy is a bettr choice out of the two.


Is this not a rational thought process? Seems so to me, sheesh...

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stratocophic
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby stratocophic » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:30 pm

TheSteelKid wrote:
TheSteelKid wrote:The issue here is that BU has mentioned the potential of a scholarship increase. With prices as they stand, its unlikely i ould go to either Bu or vandy...but u guys sure are making me feel vandy is a bettr choice out of the two.


Is this not a rational thought process? Seems so to me, sheesh...
It's reasonable, people are just quibbling over whether Vandy or BU is better (Vandy all the way, yo :mrgreen: ).

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Grizz
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby Grizz » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:32 pm

stratocophic wrote:
TheSteelKid wrote:
TheSteelKid wrote:The issue here is that BU has mentioned the potential of a scholarship increase. With prices as they stand, its unlikely i ould go to either Bu or vandy...but u guys sure are making me feel vandy is a bettr choice out of the two.


Is this not a rational thought process? Seems so to me, sheesh...
It's reasonable, people are just quibbling over whether Vandy or BU is better (Vandy all the way, yo :mrgreen: ).


Wish you would have been here brother

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stratocophic
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby stratocophic » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:40 pm

rad law wrote:
stratocophic wrote:
TheSteelKid wrote:
TheSteelKid wrote:The issue here is that BU has mentioned the potential of a scholarship increase. With prices as they stand, its unlikely i ould go to either Bu or vandy...but u guys sure are making me feel vandy is a bettr choice out of the two.


Is this not a rational thought process? Seems so to me, sheesh...
It's reasonable, people are just quibbling over whether Vandy or BU is better (Vandy all the way, yo :mrgreen: ).


Wish you would have been here brother
You and me both, my man. You and me both. WashU's gonna work out fine for me, but I still get pangs over Flying Saucer and Whiskey Kitchen. Dat buyer's remorse.

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Grizz
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby Grizz » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:41 pm

stratocophic wrote:You and me both, my man. You and me both. WashU's gonna work out fine for me, but I still get pangs over Flying Saucer and Whiskey Kitchen. Dat buyer's remorse.


I can't wait to get back and listen to some rad country music. FL just does not compare.

TheSteelKid
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby TheSteelKid » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:57 pm

stratocophic wrote:
TheSteelKid wrote:
TheSteelKid wrote:The issue here is that BU has mentioned the potential of a scholarship increase. With prices as they stand, its unlikely i ould go to either Bu or vandy...but u guys sure are making me feel vandy is a bettr choice out of the two.


Is this not a rational thought process? Seems so to me, sheesh...
It's reasonable, people are just quibbling over whether Vandy or BU is better (Vandy all the way, yo :mrgreen: ).


Better overall? It appears so. But, for this kid, who wants to be in ther northeast, chicago or cali, me likes BU or UIUC.

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Grizz
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby Grizz » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:17 am

TheSteelKid wrote:
stratocophic wrote:
TheSteelKid wrote:
TheSteelKid wrote:The issue here is that BU has mentioned the potential of a scholarship increase. With prices as they stand, its unlikely i ould go to either Bu or vandy...but u guys sure are making me feel vandy is a bettr choice out of the two.


Is this not a rational thought process? Seems so to me, sheesh...
It's reasonable, people are just quibbling over whether Vandy or BU is better (Vandy all the way, yo :mrgreen: ).


Better overall? It appears so. But, for this kid, who wants to be in ther northeast, chicago or cali, me likes BU or UIUC.


If you have ties to all those markets, it would still be between Vandy and UIUC for me.

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thexfactor
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby thexfactor » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:14 pm

I think you should listen to people like strato and rad law.

I would take vandy 100%. ITE you need to go for broke. Worst case, IBR limits your tuition payments to 10%.
The downside for UIUC and vandy is very similar. No law job or a law job that pays 30k a year.
If you are really that risk adverse, I dont think you should go to law school. Outside of MVP it is a pretty big risk.

The upside is a lot different. 160k job in NYC. However, vandy will give you a much better chance to attain that. Even later on when you lateral, they still look at law school and having vandy on your resume will be a lot better than BU or UIUC.

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Corwin
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby Corwin » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:51 pm

thexfactor wrote:160k job in NYC. However, vandy will give you a much better chance to attain that. Even later on when you lateral, they still look at law school and having vandy on your resume will be a lot better than BU or UIUC.


People argue Vandy > BU and BU > Vandy and I think there's a lot to be said for that debate. Personally I would give Vandy the slight edge. But it's a huge stretch to claim that Vandy >> BU. The only area in which Vandy is a clear win is Article III Clerkships. Everything else is a wash in my opinion if you are geographically indifferent.

OP, there are going to be pro Vandy people and pro BU people on this board. If you are trying to decide between those two schools, you need to take the data and decide for yourself.

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coldshoulder
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby coldshoulder » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:21 pm

Corwin wrote:
thexfactor wrote:160k job in NYC. However, vandy will give you a much better chance to attain that. Even later on when you lateral, they still look at law school and having vandy on your resume will be a lot better than BU or UIUC.


People argue Vandy > BU and BU > Vandy and I think there's a lot to be said for that debate. Personally I would give Vandy the slight edge. But it's a huge stretch to claim that Vandy >> BU. The only area in which Vandy is a clear win is Article III Clerkships. Everything else is a wash in my opinion if you are geographically indifferent.

OP, there are going to be pro Vandy people and pro BU people on this board. If you are trying to decide between those two schools, you need to take the data and decide for yourself.

Salary:

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+1

TheSteelKid
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby TheSteelKid » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:33 pm

Thanks for bringing this thread back down to earth. I now realize that though Vandy does have an edge in historical BigLaw placement and in terms of straight up employment is probably the better option, I am still impartial to the south and
More partial to the NorthEast. In NYC, the schools are pretty darn similar. Being that I want to work in NYC or Chicago, its a tough call amongst tuition costs which are 10k/year at UIUC, 30 K/YEAR at BU + increases, and 35 k/year at vandy plus increases.


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Corwin
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby Corwin » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:15 pm

TheSteelKid wrote:Thanks for bringing this thread back down to earth. I now realize that though Vandy does have an edge in historical BigLaw placement and in terms of straight up employment is probably the better option, I am still impartial to the south and
More partial to the NorthEast. In NYC, the schools are pretty darn similar. Being that I want to work in NYC or Chicago, its a tough call amongst tuition costs which are 10k/year at UIUC, 30 K/YEAR at BU + increases, and 35 k/year at vandy plus increases.

Also remember that if you aren't in-state for UIUC already, you can knock off another $7K per year for the last two years. Getting residency in Illinois is definitely doable after the first year. Also, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, it's a $20K difference over 3 years for rent in Boston versus rent in Champaign.

TheSteelKid
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby TheSteelKid » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:21 pm

Corwin wrote:
TheSteelKid wrote:Thanks for bringing this thread back down to earth. I now realize that though Vandy does have an edge in historical BigLaw placement and in terms of straight up employment is probably the better option, I am still impartial to the south and
More partial to the NorthEast. In NYC, the schools are pretty darn similar. Being that I want to work in NYC or Chicago, its a tough call amongst tuition costs which are 10k/year at UIUC, 30 K/YEAR at BU + increases, and 35 k/year at vandy plus increases.

Also remember that if you aren't in-state for UIUC already, you can knock off another $7K per year for the last two years. Getting residency in Illinois is definitely doable after the first year. Also, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, it's a $20K difference over 3 years for rent in Boston versus rent in Champaign.


Is it really that easy to get residency in Illinois? I thought I read that you have to like buy a property or something which I certainly won't be doing.

TheSteelKid
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby TheSteelKid » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:23 pm

BTW I will NOT be submitting my deposit to Vanderbilt, as wonderful of an opportunity as that sounds like. I would rather go to U Illinois with minimal debt and bank on Chicago, which is one of my top choices of place to live.

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Corwin
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby Corwin » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:26 pm

TheSteelKid wrote:
Corwin wrote:
TheSteelKid wrote:Thanks for bringing this thread back down to earth. I now realize that though Vandy does have an edge in historical BigLaw placement and in terms of straight up employment is probably the better option, I am still impartial to the south and
More partial to the NorthEast. In NYC, the schools are pretty darn similar. Being that I want to work in NYC or Chicago, its a tough call amongst tuition costs which are 10k/year at UIUC, 30 K/YEAR at BU + increases, and 35 k/year at vandy plus increases.

Also remember that if you aren't in-state for UIUC already, you can knock off another $7K per year for the last two years. Getting residency in Illinois is definitely doable after the first year. Also, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, it's a $20K difference over 3 years for rent in Boston versus rent in Champaign.


Is it really that easy to get residency in Illinois? I thought I read that you have to like buy a property or something which I certainly won't be doing.

It's not easy, but some of my friends from other states did it during undergrad. Registering to vote, getting an Illinois driver's license, getting a job, etc. All of these things help provide residency. You need to argue that you are in Illinois for reasons other than just receiving an education. Also, if one of your parents lives in Illinois, you get residency. See here for more info: http://www.usp.uillinois.edu/residency/res_faq.cfm

wdk3618
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby wdk3618 » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:44 pm

Is it really that easy to get residency in Illinois? I thought I read that you have to like buy a property or something which I certainly won't be doing.[/quote]

hes mistaken, it might be different for undergrad im not sure but its very difficult in law school in illinois you would essentially have to get married so dont count on the in-state




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