BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

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JamMasterJ
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby JamMasterJ » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:48 pm

TheSteelKid wrote:So ive submitted my deposit to BU and am desperately hoping I receive more money. If not, it looks like Im UIUC bound. UIUC will only cost me 30k over 3 years but with only 10k a year it looks like BU will cost around 100k over three years....i need more $$!

True, and btw, your BU scholly is probably stipulated on basically not failing out. Good academic standing is like 2.0 or less

wdk3618
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby wdk3618 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:02 pm

TheSteelKid wrote:So ive submitted my deposit to BU and am desperately hoping I receive more money. If not, it looks like Im UIUC bound. UIUC will only cost me 30k over 3 years but with only 10k a year it looks like BU will cost around 100k over three years....i need more $$!


you have to factor in COL as well. uiuc is cheaper in that aspect as well. so those debts numbers will be bigger than 30 and 100

TheSteelKid
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby TheSteelKid » Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:41 pm

wdk3618 wrote:
TheSteelKid wrote:So ive submitted my deposit to BU and am desperately hoping I receive more money. If not, it looks like Im UIUC bound. UIUC will only cost me 30k over 3 years but with only 10k a year it looks like BU will cost around 100k over three years....i need more $$!


you have to factor in COL as well. uiuc is cheaper in that aspect as well. so those debts numbers will be bigger than 30 and 100


I dont think Ill have to take out loans for COL, though I will have to live in a reasonably priced apartment. I just need to get tuition down! If i can manage to double my scholly ill be going to BU.

JG7773
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby JG7773 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:46 pm

TheSteelKid wrote:
wdk3618 wrote:
TheSteelKid wrote:So ive submitted my deposit to BU and am desperately hoping I receive more money. If not, it looks like Im UIUC bound. UIUC will only cost me 30k over 3 years but with only 10k a year it looks like BU will cost around 100k over three years....i need more $$!


you have to factor in COL as well. uiuc is cheaper in that aspect as well. so those debts numbers will be bigger than 30 and 100


I dont think Ill have to take out loans for COL, though I will have to live in a reasonably priced apartment. I just need to get tuition down! If i can manage to double my scholly ill be going to BU.


Living in Boston currently, I am not sure what your definition of "reasonably priced apartments" is, but you may be in for some sticker shock when you start looking around the Comm Ave. area.

JG

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jonillson
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby jonillson » Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:57 pm

Assuming you're not a resident of Illinois, COA (cost of attendance) at UIUC is $60,112/year. After your $35k/year scholly at UIUC, you'd be looking at $25,112/year, or $75,336 total, in costs.

The COA at BU is $60,332/year. After your $10k/year scholly, you'd be looking at $50,332/year, or $150,996 total, in costs.

COA at Vandy is $68,664/year. Minus your $8k/year scholly, COA is $60,664, or $181,992 total, in costs.

So these are the numbers you should be looking at:

UIUC: $75,332
BU: $150,996
Vandy: $181,992

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thexfactor
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby thexfactor » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:05 pm

TheSteelKid wrote:
thexfactor wrote:I think it is a tossup between vandy and UIUC. Is vandy worth 75k more? I would pay a little extra for a 10-15% higher biglaw chance. Unlike UIUC, Vandy also places well back east.



Why do people think vandy outplaces BU in biglaw when the nlj numbers say theyre the same?


Vandy is a lot better for clerkships as compared to BU. Generally clerkships and nlj250 firms compete for the same highly ranked students.

BU is only boston and some NY while Vandy is a lot more diverse in terms of OCI.

I would take vandy.

Rawlsian
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby Rawlsian » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:21 pm

At Vandy you won't be stuck in the South. Of course Vandy is in the South, but the majority of Vandy grads do not stay in the South (e.g. more go to NY than Atlanta), and the majority of the firms at OCI are not Southern. I'd loosely say as far as prospects go boston=BU, Chicago= Illinois, everywhere else=Vandy.

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fatdouche
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby fatdouche » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:22 pm

Vandy is your best option for all the reasons listed earlier.

TheSteelKid
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby TheSteelKid » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:49 pm

fatdouche wrote:Vandy is your best option for all the reasons listed earlier.

Yes but the problem is that ill be stuck with like 120 k in student loans from vandy! I am not down with that. I paid my see deposit at BU so I can try to get more $$ out of them...if not then its a sunk cost.

Also, is Vandy really that much better than BU for NYC?

ps im turning down 30k/year at WUSTL bc Illinois is better in chicago plus like 20k cheaper

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jonillson
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby jonillson » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:53 pm

TheSteelKid wrote:Also, is Vandy really that much better than BU for NYC?


No. I don't think anyone said that Vandy is better for NYC than BU, but if they did, they're mistaken.

legaleagle9
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby legaleagle9 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:30 pm

BU's ranking of 22 kinda puzzles me. I mean according to Princeton Review, they are ranked 10 for career prospects, 8 for classroom experience, and number ONE for best professors. They even placed the 17th best percentage of students in NLJ 250 last year, ahead of higher-ranked schools like USC, UT, Vandy, GW.

They seem more like a high-teens ranked school. Not that it really matters at all...

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stratocophic
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby stratocophic » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:34 pm

legaleagle9 wrote:BU's ranking of 22 kinda puzzles me. I mean according to Princeton Review, they are ranked 10 for career prospects, 8 for classroom experience, and number ONE for best professors. They even placed the 17th best percentage of students in NLJ 250 last year, ahead of higher-ranked schools like USC, UT, Vandy, GW.

They seem more like a high-teens ranked school. Not that it really matters at all...
You solved your own mystery

TheSteelKid
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby TheSteelKid » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:54 pm

stratocophic wrote:
legaleagle9 wrote:BU's ranking of 22 kinda puzzles me. I mean according to Princeton Review, they are ranked 10 for career prospects, 8 for classroom experience, and number ONE for best professors. They even placed the 17th best percentage of students in NLJ 250 last year, ahead of higher-ranked schools like USC, UT, Vandy, GW.

They seem more like a high-teens ranked school. Not that it really matters at all...
You solved your own mystery



Funny Funny. But what DOES matter is 100k in debt at BU vs 30 k in debt at UIUC. I really hope that I get more scholarship money. Please...

Rawlsian
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby Rawlsian » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:33 pm

jonillson wrote:
TheSteelKid wrote:Also, is Vandy really that much better than BU for NYC?


No. I don't think anyone said that Vandy is better for NYC than BU, but if they did, they're mistaken.


It's accurate to say Vandy places at least as well in NY as BU, and I believe it's reasonable to say Vandy places a little better.

It's hard to know for sure without knowing firms' particular GPA-cutoffs regarding each school, but slightly more New York firms interview at Vandy than BU. That difference is magnified when you consider that a greater percentage of BU students traditionally head to New York and BU's class size is close to 100 students bigger. Thus, by my calculations, 2.16 BU students head to NY for every 1 NY firm that interviews at the school, compared with 1.05 Vandy students for every 1 NY firm that interviews at the school. Note that firms will travel a greater distance and in greater numbers (proportionally) to recruit Vandy students.

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gogators
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby gogators » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:39 pm

Vanderbilt has the national reach neither of the other schools has. If you're attempting to get into Biglaw, want a safety net (someone has to be in the bottom 50% of your class), and want to be in an awesome city for three years then choose Vanderbilt. (Caveat, I'm from Boston and won't be going back. Also, I currently attend Vanderbilt.) Feel free to PM.

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jonillson
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby jonillson » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:59 pm

Rawlsian wrote:
jonillson wrote:
TheSteelKid wrote:Also, is Vandy really that much better than BU for NYC?


No. I don't think anyone said that Vandy is better for NYC than BU, but if they did, they're mistaken.


It's accurate to say Vandy places at least as well in NY as BU, and I believe it's reasonable to say Vandy places a little better.

It's hard to know for sure without knowing firms' particular GPA-cutoffs regarding each school, but slightly more New York firms interview at Vandy than BU. That difference is magnified when you consider that a greater percentage of BU students traditionally head to New York and BU's class size is close to 100 students bigger. Thus, by my calculations, 2.16 BU students head to NY for every 1 NY firm that interviews at the school, compared with 1.05 Vandy students for every 1 NY firm that interviews at the school. Note that firms will travel a greater distance and in greater numbers (proportionally) to recruit Vandy students.


Are you suggesting that there's a meaningful relationship between the number of students that travel to a city to off-campus interview and the number of firms that travel from that city to OCI? That...seems like a stretch (I'm being a bit generous).

OP, here's a breakdown of geographic placement rates courtesy of LST. You'll notice that BU places just about 4% more graduates in the Mid-Atlantic region (NY, NJ, PA). That's a 27% higher placement rate in that region.

BU:

--ImageRemoved-- (LinkRemoved)

Source: --LinkRemoved--

Vandy:

--ImageRemoved-- (LinkRemoved)

Source: --LinkRemoved--

TheSteelKid
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby TheSteelKid » Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:39 pm

I understand Rawlsian's thinking that a with greater number of NYC firms interviewing at Vandy, even though significantly less students end up in NYC from Vandy, this points to Vanderbilt's strength in NYC.

However, as jonillson has noted, more students overall from 2009 ended up in the NYC/NJ/PA region from BU than from Vandy.

Regardless, I see the fact that I don't want to work in the south and that fact that Vandy will not offer me more money as being a deal breaker.

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Grizz
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby Grizz » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:06 pm

TheSteelKid wrote:I understand Rawlsian's thinking that a with greater number of NYC firms interviewing at Vandy, even though significantly less students end up in NYC from Vandy, this points to Vanderbilt's strength in NYC.

However, as jonillson has noted, more students overall from 2009 ended up in the NYC/NJ/PA region from BU than from Vandy.

Regardless, I see the fact that I don't want to work in the south and that fact that Vandy will not offer me more money as being a deal breaker.


The number of students who end up there doesn't tell the whole story. In addition to Rawlsian's point, it helps that barely anyone actually seriously considers NYC.

I think you should be picking between Vandy and UIUC, not BU.

TheSteelKid
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby TheSteelKid » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:27 pm

rad law wrote:
TheSteelKid wrote:I understand Rawlsian's thinking that a with greater number of NYC firms interviewing at Vandy, even though significantly less students end up in NYC from Vandy, this points to Vanderbilt's strength in NYC.

However, as jonillson has noted, more students overall from 2009 ended up in the NYC/NJ/PA region from BU than from Vandy.

Regardless, I see the fact that I don't want to work in the south and that fact that Vandy will not offer me more money as being a deal breaker.


The number of students who end up there doesn't tell the whole story. In addition to Rawlsian's point, it helps that barely anyone actually seriously considers NYC.

I think you should be picking between Vandy and UIUC, not BU.



Can anyone else comment on the choice between Vanderbilt and BU?? Either way I find it very hard to accept their offers with only 8k/year from Vandy and 10k/year from BU.

TheSteelKid
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby TheSteelKid » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:46 pm

I wish others would add to this thread. I am going to call Vanderbilt tomorrow and speak with them about job placement but either way I'm not really into coughing up about 120k for vandy

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stratocophic
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby stratocophic » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:01 pm

I'd lean towards UIUC unless BU gives you 20-25k/ year, and even then I'd probably stick with UIUC. Vandy's great but I'd go with a T30 at about 1/2 the price over Vandy at near sticker. Same with BC/BU. Reasonable minds may differ.

TheSteelKid
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby TheSteelKid » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:03 pm

stratocophic wrote:I'd lean towards UIUC unless BU gives you 20-25k/ year, and even then I'd probably stick with UIUC. Vandy's great but I'd go with a T30 at about 1/2 the price over Vandy at near sticker. Same with BC/BU. Reasonable minds may differ.



Yes as I have said before it will take about 20k+ from BU to get me to go there. I would love to work in the Northeast and get a chance at NYC, but not for another 75k when I can have that money back and get a great look at working in Chicago.

Rawlsian
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby Rawlsian » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:11 pm

jonillson wrote:
Rawlsian wrote:
jonillson wrote:
TheSteelKid wrote:Also, is Vandy really that much better than BU for NYC?


No. I don't think anyone said that Vandy is better for NYC than BU, but if they did, they're mistaken.


It's accurate to say Vandy places at least as well in NY as BU, and I believe it's reasonable to say Vandy places a little better.

It's hard to know for sure without knowing firms' particular GPA-cutoffs regarding each school, but slightly more New York firms interview at Vandy than BU. That difference is magnified when you consider that a greater percentage of BU students traditionally head to New York and BU's class size is close to 100 students bigger. Thus, by my calculations, 2.16 BU students head to NY for every 1 NY firm that interviews at the school, compared with 1.05 Vandy students for every 1 NY firm that interviews at the school. Note that firms will travel a greater distance and in greater numbers (proportionally) to recruit Vandy students.


Are you suggesting that there's a meaningful relationship between the number of students that travel to a city to off-campus interview and the number of firms that travel from that city to OCI? That...seems like a stretch (I'm being a bit generous).



I think you misunderstood my point. "By head to NY" I didn't mean students who travel to NY to off-campus interview at NY firms, but rather students who work in NY post-graduation. In fact, I factored in the placement data you just linked from LST to figure the amount of firms that interview at a school/number of students who work in NY post-graduation (the 2.16 and 1.05 numbers). Those numbers also imply what Rad Law brought up: fewer students per firm mean less competition for jobs.

It's hard to abstract anything from just looking at percentages of students that work in a geographic region. It doesn't account the biggest variable--self-selection. For example, if you're sure you want NY big law it makes more sense to go to Cornell than Vandy.

I will grant that there is another inference that can be drawn from the 1.05 and 2.16 numbers. Perhaps since more BU students head to NY, and fewer NY firms interview at BU than Vandy, then firms higher deeper in BU's class--for example, each firm highers 2 instead of 1. However, if that was the case I would expect fewer firms to interview at Vandy, not more.

TheSteelKid
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby TheSteelKid » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:31 pm

Where did u even find this info on the number of nyc firms on campus and the number of students going to NYC?

Rawlsian
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Re: BU vs Vandy vs UIUC

Postby Rawlsian » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:11 am

TheSteelKid wrote:Where did u even find this info on the number of nyc firms on campus and the number of students going to NYC?


Here are some helpful sites:
http://www.nalpdirectory.com/

http://www.martindale.com/Find-Lawyers-and-Law-Firms.aspx

http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/

You can, of course, get other stuff from the school's websites. If you received the acceptance packet from Vandy, you should also have the destination and job of every single graduate from last year's class.




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