Columbia Butler vs. Harvard Sticker

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which would you choose?

Columbia Butler/Other T-10 Half Tuition Scholarship
53
47%
Harvard
60
53%
 
Total votes: 113

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ahduth
Posts: 2468
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Re: Columbia Butler vs. Harvard Sticker

Postby ahduth » Mon May 30, 2011 4:07 pm

Corwin wrote:The argument about women sleeping with HLS graduates is hilarious. There are much easier options to get women to sleep with you. Stop eating those Doritos and posting on TLS and hit the gym. I'm not saying HLS doesn't help, but Jesus christ haha. How about taking care of yourself and doing something interesting with your life.


Yeah... I'm trying to figure out how ugly/socially awkward these people are. Debating what school is going to get you more dates is kind of pathetic. Maybe I've been away from the east coast too long.

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westinghouse60
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Re: Columbia Butler vs. Harvard Sticker

Postby westinghouse60 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:40 am

ahduth wrote:
Corwin wrote:The argument about women sleeping with HLS graduates is hilarious. There are much easier options to get women to sleep with you. Stop eating those Doritos and posting on TLS and hit the gym. I'm not saying HLS doesn't help, but Jesus christ haha. How about taking care of yourself and doing something interesting with your life.


Yeah... I'm trying to figure out how ugly/socially awkward these people are. Debating what school is going to get you more dates is kind of pathetic. Maybe I've been away from the east coast too long.


Not saying that anyone should base their decision on where to attend law school on what will impress women the most, but for the sake of argument, if one could date women of a certain level of attractiveness under ordinary circumstances, going to HLS could be a partial factor for dating even more attractive women, even if one isn't socially awkward/ugly. Of course I really doubt it would make a difference in most situations.

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rayiner
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Re: Columbia Butler vs. Harvard Sticker

Postby rayiner » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:43 pm

westinghouse60 wrote:
ahduth wrote:
Corwin wrote:The argument about women sleeping with HLS graduates is hilarious. There are much easier options to get women to sleep with you. Stop eating those Doritos and posting on TLS and hit the gym. I'm not saying HLS doesn't help, but Jesus christ haha. How about taking care of yourself and doing something interesting with your life.


Yeah... I'm trying to figure out how ugly/socially awkward these people are. Debating what school is going to get you more dates is kind of pathetic. Maybe I've been away from the east coast too long.


Not saying that anyone should base their decision on where to attend law school on what will impress women the most, but for the sake of argument, if one could date women of a certain level of attractiveness under ordinary circumstances, going to HLS could be a partial factor for dating even more attractive women, even if one isn't socially awkward/ugly. Of course I really doubt it would make a difference in most situations.


What makes you think you can date more attractive women with HLS? Do HLS-ers have hotter girlfriends than CLS-ers, empirically?

flcath
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Columbia Butler vs. Harvard Sticker

Postby flcath » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:24 am

rayiner wrote:
westinghouse60 wrote:
ahduth wrote:
Corwin wrote:The argument about women sleeping with HLS graduates is hilarious. There are much easier options to get women to sleep with you. Stop eating those Doritos and posting on TLS and hit the gym. I'm not saying HLS doesn't help, but Jesus christ haha. How about taking care of yourself and doing something interesting with your life.


Yeah... I'm trying to figure out how ugly/socially awkward these people are. Debating what school is going to get you more dates is kind of pathetic. Maybe I've been away from the east coast too long.


Not saying that anyone should base their decision on where to attend law school on what will impress women the most, but for the sake of argument, if one could date women of a certain level of attractiveness under ordinary circumstances, going to HLS could be a partial factor for dating even more attractive women, even if one isn't socially awkward/ugly. Of course I really doubt it would make a difference in most situations.


What makes you think you can date more attractive women with HLS? Do HLS-ers have hotter girlfriends than CLS-ers, empirically?

Even then we'd have to control for wealth. Obviously women favor rich men.

Humbert Humbert
Posts: 400
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:46 pm

Re: Columbia Butler vs. Harvard Sticker

Postby Humbert Humbert » Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:56 pm

rayiner wrote:Let me throw in one thing that I think will back up Desert Fox's point about taking the money if your only interest is NYC biglaw: loans are a serious bitch.

With tuition + cost of living - proceeds from a summer SA, your total loans will be in the $230k range if you pay sticker. Remember, you'll rack up tens of thousand of dollars in deferred interest payments while in school --- you can't just multiply the cost of attendance by 3x.

Now, the monthly take-home in NYC, after taxes is $8100. Just the minimum loan payment, on a 10-year plan, is going to be a crushing $2700/month. A reasonably nice apartment is going to run you $2,500/month, assuming you want to live within a 30 minute commute, want some semblance of amenities, etc. And when you're working 12 hours a day, trust me, you will feel entitled to these things. That leaves $2,900/month. Which is a ton of disposable income, but it's not really all disposable.

1) Dressing the way you'll be expected to dress at a big NYC firm is not cheap. You'll spend $100/month on dry-cleaning and laundry.
2) You'll end up eating out a lot because you don't have time to cook.
3) The nice gym near your office will run $150-$200/month.
4) Transportation will run $100/month for an unlimited MTA pass.


Aside from these basic expenses, there is the simple fact that you're likely going to be out of biglaw in 3-5 years. With your loans at a level that would be completely unmanageable if you had to take a normal job, you're going to want to pay them down. Moreover, from your perspective, it's a risk-free 7.6% return.

I made out a basic budget and at the end of the day, once the huge NYC taxes and staggering loan payments are factored in, I'll have less disposable income after graduating from law school and making $160k than I did after graduating from college and living in Atlanta making $60k.

Getting rid of the loan payments would mean a very real difference in your QoL during your stint in biglaw.



You can find a nice apartment in Manhattan for less than $2500. Regarding your list, a few comments:

1.) Yes
2.) Yes to the take-out point, but a very large percentage of it is expensed to the firm (work past 6 = free dinner)
3.) Free gym memberships for associates
4.) Free car home if you work past 8, which is quite frequent - this makes the unlimited metro pass not worth it. Monthly transportation cost is < $100

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JamMasterJ
Posts: 6688
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:17 pm

Re: Columbia Butler vs. Harvard Sticker

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:20 pm

Humbert Humbert wrote:
rayiner wrote:Let me throw in one thing that I think will back up Desert Fox's point about taking the money if your only interest is NYC biglaw: loans are a serious bitch.

With tuition + cost of living - proceeds from a summer SA, your total loans will be in the $230k range if you pay sticker. Remember, you'll rack up tens of thousand of dollars in deferred interest payments while in school --- you can't just multiply the cost of attendance by 3x.

Now, the monthly take-home in NYC, after taxes is $8100. Just the minimum loan payment, on a 10-year plan, is going to be a crushing $2700/month. A reasonably nice apartment is going to run you $2,500/month, assuming you want to live within a 30 minute commute, want some semblance of amenities, etc. And when you're working 12 hours a day, trust me, you will feel entitled to these things. That leaves $2,900/month. Which is a ton of disposable income, but it's not really all disposable.

1) Dressing the way you'll be expected to dress at a big NYC firm is not cheap. You'll spend $100/month on dry-cleaning and laundry.
2) You'll end up eating out a lot because you don't have time to cook.
3) The nice gym near your office will run $150-$200/month.
4) Transportation will run $100/month for an unlimited MTA pass.


Aside from these basic expenses, there is the simple fact that you're likely going to be out of biglaw in 3-5 years. With your loans at a level that would be completely unmanageable if you had to take a normal job, you're going to want to pay them down. Moreover, from your perspective, it's a risk-free 7.6% return.

I made out a basic budget and at the end of the day, once the huge NYC taxes and staggering loan payments are factored in, I'll have less disposable income after graduating from law school and making $160k than I did after graduating from college and living in Atlanta making $60k.

Getting rid of the loan payments would mean a very real difference in your QoL during your stint in biglaw.



You can find a nice apartment in Manhattan for less than $2500. Regarding your list, a few comments:

1.) Yes
2.) Yes to the take-out point, but a very large percentage of it is expensed to the firm (work past 6 = free dinner)
3.) Free gym memberships for associates
4.) Free car home if you work past 8, which is quite frequent - this makes the unlimited metro pass not worth it. Monthly transportation cost is < $100

thread is two years dead, bro

User avatar
Bronck
Posts: 2025
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:28 pm

Re: Columbia Butler vs. Harvard Sticker

Postby Bronck » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:22 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:thread is two years dead, bro


Pretty epic necro

Humbert Humbert
Posts: 400
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:46 pm

Re: Columbia Butler vs. Harvard Sticker

Postby Humbert Humbert » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:23 pm

My mistake - somebody linked to it in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=206455

Got the two confused.

utlaw2007
Posts: 783
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:49 pm

Re: Columbia Butler vs. Harvard Sticker

Postby utlaw2007 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:14 pm

What sort of nerd-hags are you guys pulling?


I'm thinking the same thing.

utlaw2007
Posts: 783
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:49 pm

Re: Columbia Butler vs. Harvard Sticker

Postby utlaw2007 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:25 pm

Corwin wrote:The argument about women sleeping with HLS graduates is hilarious. There are much easier options to get women to sleep with you. Stop eating those Doritos and posting on TLS and hit the gym. I'm not saying HLS doesn't help, but Jesus christ haha. How about taking care of yourself and doing something interesting with your life.


Very true. And only a portion of the female population even keeps track of school prestige. Doctors pretty much have things on lock. They have it good because they have money. But they are not the only ones. Any mention of school around many of the women I run into will get you labeled as a nerd. And the women assume you are boring and want nothing to do with you. And that's truth.

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jbagelboy
Posts: 9635
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: Columbia Butler vs. Harvard Sticker

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:53 pm

ahduth wrote:
rayiner wrote:
TheFactor wrote:
InLikeFlint wrote:This has not been true in my experience.

+1


What sort of nerd-hags are you guys pulling?


No shit right? There is some seriously nasty New England skank out there, but I'm not sure I even understand the scenario here.

(scene: overpriced club in Manhattan)

HLS grad: I went to Harvard.
Preppy slut: I want you to come over to my place right now.

This scenario seems... I dunno. I guess I don't own enough sweater vests or something.


+1

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jbagelboy
Posts: 9635
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: Columbia Butler vs. Harvard Sticker

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:57 pm

returning to the OP's question.. actually, for the sake of this return, lets say he's happily married and not interested in breaking his vows.

now, as another poster mentioned, a lot of it comes down to how much $ your getting from harvard. from what I've heard, if you aren't getting any need based from harvard, you probably have at least some family money to make up the difference. how close would that fam money come to closing the tuition - butler gap?

Traditionally Harvard has more international portability, and its an easier entry into politics/DC markets. Contrary to what Suits may have led you to believe though, Columbia grads, not harvard ones, are the #1 pick in nyc biglaw. I would say Harvard if one of the specific circumstances (international, PI focus, ect.) applies to you, otherwise in the 80% of other cases take the butler money and run.




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