Seattle U vs McGeorge vs USF vs SCU

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which school to pick?

Seattle U 8k/yr (top 50% stip)
15
33%
McGeorge (UOP) 10k/yr (no stips)
14
31%
University of San Francisco (subtract 30k from cost of living because I can live with parents. Tuition at sticker though.)
12
27%
Santa Clara U (sticker for everything)
4
9%
 
Total votes: 45

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risktaker
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Re: Seattle U vs McGeorge vs USF vs SCU

Postby risktaker » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:07 pm

There's no changing my mind at this point. Upfish, I already took another year off and re-took the LSAT, but my score stayed the same. I was not able to get it together when it mattered. I doubt I will be able to even if I take another year off. My mentality is that I will attend one of these schools at least for a semester and see what happens. If I end up in the top 25%, I will stick around and try to transfer at the end of the year if I can get to the top 10-15%. If I end up below top 25% after first semester, I will drop out and pursue the healthcare route. I am not too concerned because I do have a back up route in case things go south, haha. Worst case, I have lost a semesters worth of tuition and living expenses. This kind of debt isn't going to kill me. At least I will know that I tried law school. If I end up picking the healthcare route now, I might regret not even trying to attend law school.

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bk1
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Re: Seattle U vs McGeorge vs USF vs SCU

Postby bk1 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:12 pm

risktaker wrote:I was not able to get it together when it mattered.


So what makes you think you can get it together for a law school exam when you couldn't do it for the LSAT?

risktaker wrote:If I end up below top 25% after first semester, I will drop out and pursue the healthcare route.


Well at least you have a good plan. I'd probably recommend McGeorge over Seattle since McGeorge will be cheaper with guaranteed scholly and probably lower CoL (Sacramento area is ridiculously cheap). I wish you luck since most people in your position don't actually realize that dropping out if they don't do well is in their best interests.

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risktaker
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Re: Seattle U vs McGeorge vs USF vs SCU

Postby risktaker » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:41 pm

bk1 wrote:
risktaker wrote:I was not able to get it together when it mattered.


"So what makes you think you can get it together for a law school exam when you couldn't do it for the LSAT?"

I have done pretty well on in class exams in undergrad. Never stress out too much when it comes to that. My only problem has been the damn LSAT. I was scoring in the mid to high 160s, but I just get nervous as fuck on game day because I keep thinking that this test will determine my future and all that jazz. Law school exams I feel will be more manageable because I do not get nervous on in class exams. Standardized tests on the other hand are another story.

jarofsoup
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Re: Seattle U vs McGeorge vs USF vs SCU

Postby jarofsoup » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:47 pm

bk1 wrote:
risktaker wrote:I was not able to get it together when it mattered.


So what makes you think you can get it together for a law school exam when you couldn't do it for the LSAT?

risktaker wrote:If I end up below top 25% after first semester, I will drop out and pursue the healthcare route.


Well at least you have a good plan. I'd probably recommend McGeorge over Seattle since McGeorge will be cheaper with guaranteed scholly and probably lower CoL (Sacramento area is ridiculously cheap). I wish you luck since most people in your position don't actually realize that dropping out if they don't do well is in their best interests.



The drop out scheme may be a bad idea. It would be something to decide when you get to that point.

I proctored final exams at a law school a couple of weeks ago and had a chance to read over them. They are not at all like the LSAT and at least and I have to say that at a T14 I am very surprised how much the students are babied through the process. At some of the top 14s only 4 people fail out over a 5 year period. The professors will not let the students flunk out they will keep on passing them even if their work is shit. It is absurd. I am not going to go into anymore detail on this on the blog.

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bk1
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Re: Seattle U vs McGeorge vs USF vs SCU

Postby bk1 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:57 pm

jarofsoup wrote:I am not sure this is really the best move. I do not think someone should just drop out if they do not make the top 25%. There are a lot of lawyers out there that were not in the top 25% of their class at these schools. I think it is more like if you make low rank and you fucking hate law school drop out.

I proctored final exams at a law school a couple of weeks ago and had a chance to read over them. They are not at all like the LSAT and at least and I have to say that at a T14 I am very surprised how much the students are babied through the process. At some of the top 14s only 4 people fail out over a 5 year period. The professors will not let the students flunk out they will keep on passing them even if their work is shit. It is absurd. I am not going to go into anymore detail on this on the blog.


Uhh, it most definitely is the best. Avoid accumulating more debt that you will be hard to pay off based on the likely salary you will get out of this school with bad grades. Yes there are successful lawyers who did poorly in school but they weren't dealing with the current state of the legal economy nor the current cost of law school. Not to mention that about 50% of McGeorge grads and only 60% of Seattle grads (let's not even get into that it's 25% at USF/SCU) currently get full time jobs as lawyers within 9 months. So yes, if you're getting below top 25% at a school that is struggling to place more than half of its grads into full time legal jobs, you really should drop out if you're not on a guaranteed full ride.

The law school exam thing was more about the pressure of a test that matters a lot as opposed to the actual content of the exam. And it doesn't matter that law schools don't fail their kids, they still force them low on the curve.

jarofsoup
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Re: Seattle U vs McGeorge vs USF vs SCU

Postby jarofsoup » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:12 pm

bk1 wrote:
jarofsoup wrote:I am not sure this is really the best move. I do not think someone should just drop out if they do not make the top 25%. There are a lot of lawyers out there that were not in the top 25% of their class at these schools. I think it is more like if you make low rank and you fucking hate law school drop out.

I proctored final exams at a law school a couple of weeks ago and had a chance to read over them. They are not at all like the LSAT and at least and I have to say that at a T14 I am very surprised how much the students are babied through the process. At some of the top 14s only 4 people fail out over a 5 year period. The professors will not let the students flunk out they will keep on passing them even if their work is shit. It is absurd. I am not going to go into anymore detail on this on the blog.


Uhh, it most definitely is the best. Avoid accumulating more debt that you will be hard to pay off based on the likely salary you will get out of this school with bad grades. Yes there are successful lawyers who did poorly in school but they weren't dealing with the current state of the legal economy nor the current cost of law school. Not to mention that about 50% of McGeorge grads and only 60% of Seattle grads (let's not even get into that it's 25% at USF/SCU) currently get full time jobs as lawyers within 9 months. So yes, if you're getting below top 25% at a school that is struggling to place more than half of its grads into full time legal jobs, you really should drop out if you're not on a guaranteed full ride.



The law school exam thing was more about the pressure of a test that matters a lot as opposed to the actual content of the exam. And it doesn't matter that law schools don't fail their kids, they still force them low on the curve.


I had similar problems with the LSAT. I would not sleep the night before, but I scored very high on prep tests for what it is worth.... I was to freaked out to take a Xanax or Ambient to help me sleep.

It is a crap market and it is not as easy as it once was and I agree. I just do not think it is a easy choice to make like you do.

I am sitting here and praying I get accepted to USD or American off the wait list. Bk are you also playing the wait list game? It is hell.

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bk1
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Re: Seattle U vs McGeorge vs USF vs SCU

Postby bk1 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:17 pm

jarofsoup wrote:It is a crap market and it is not as easy as it once was and I agree. I just do not think it is a easy choice to make like you do.

I am sitting here and praying I get accepted to USD or American off the wait list. Bk are you also playing the wait list game? It is hell.


I'm not saying it is easy to drop out. Nobody wants to quit and give up on doing something they want to do (e.g. be a lawyer), but sometimes it is the best thing to do.

I've pretty much interpreted waitlists as soft rejections for my own sanity.

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risktaker
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Re: Seattle U vs McGeorge vs USF vs SCU

Postby risktaker » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:03 pm

Accepted PT to USF. I don't think it is worth it to do PT for a year and then try to transfer. Especially if my goal was to either end up in top 25% after first semester or transfer. What do you guys think?

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risktaker
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Re: Seattle U vs McGeorge vs USF vs SCU

Postby risktaker » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:17 pm

bump

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bk1
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Re: Seattle U vs McGeorge vs USF vs SCU

Postby bk1 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:20 pm

risktaker wrote:Accepted PT to USF. I don't think it is worth it to do PT for a year and then try to transfer. Especially if my goal was to either end up in top 25% after first semester or transfer. What do you guys think?


PT poses problems for transferring. The only reason I would see PT being worth it for you was if you were doing it so you could get a job at the same time and help mitigate the cost of these schools.

jarofsoup
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Re: Seattle U vs McGeorge vs USF vs SCU

Postby jarofsoup » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:25 pm

bk1 wrote:
risktaker wrote:Accepted PT to USF. I don't think it is worth it to do PT for a year and then try to transfer. Especially if my goal was to either end up in top 25% after first semester or transfer. What do you guys think?


PT poses problems for transferring. The only reason I would see PT being worth it for you was if you were doing it so you could get a job at the same time and help mitigate the cost of these schools.



You are looking into only being able to transfer into other part time programs. Mitigate cost and get experience.

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risktaker
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Re: Seattle U vs McGeorge vs USF vs SCU

Postby risktaker » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:39 pm

I need to figure out how much exactly this will save me. I might hold out for full time. Need to sleep on it.

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bass08
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Re: Seattle U vs McGeorge vs USF vs SCU

Postby bass08 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:14 am

don't go to USF, and especially don't go to USF part time unless you have some paid work lined up. I guess for you it's not as bad because you can live with your parents if you go to USF, so the high COL won't matter as much. But just don't go there anyway because of the horrible job prospects.

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risktaker
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Re: Seattle U vs McGeorge vs USF vs SCU

Postby risktaker » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:42 am

Declined the part-time offer. Will wait to see if they let me into their full time program.

jarofsoup
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Re: Seattle U vs McGeorge vs USF vs SCU

Postby jarofsoup » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:25 pm

I drove by McGeorge again on Sunday at about 4pm it was super sketchy. It felt like I would be afraid to go outside at night in that area. Like walking back from the library and shit.

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bk1
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Re: Seattle U vs McGeorge vs USF vs SCU

Postby bk1 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:40 pm

jarofsoup wrote:I drove by McGeorge again on Sunday at about 4pm it was super sketchy. It felt like I would be afraid to go outside at night in that area. Like walking back from the library and shit.


It didn't seem that sketchy to me. I mean it is surrounded by residential but it really seemed not too bad.

jarofsoup
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Re: Seattle U vs McGeorge vs USF vs SCU

Postby jarofsoup » Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:02 pm

bk1 wrote:
jarofsoup wrote:I drove by McGeorge again on Sunday at about 4pm it was super sketchy. It felt like I would be afraid to go outside at night in that area. Like walking back from the library and shit.


It didn't seem that sketchy to me. I mean it is surrounded by residential but it really seemed not too bad.



The first time I visited it seemed ok. But I hadn't seen it during an off hour time. I visited it again to see if I got a different vibe, and I cannot say that I was inspired. To be frank my High School's campus was much nicer.

I love it when parks advertise themselves as being "Drug Free Zones" like the park across the street from McGeorge.

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risktaker
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Re: Seattle U vs McGeorge vs USF vs SCU

Postby risktaker » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:55 pm

Seeing that thread about UCB 3L in top 25% of his class striking out speaks volumes about CA's legal market. I might have no choice but to move to the Pacific Northwest.

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dr123
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Re: Seattle U vs McGeorge vs USF vs SCU

Postby dr123 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:18 pm

risktaker wrote:Seeing that thread about UCB 3L in top 25% of his class striking out speaks volumes about CA's legal market. I might have no choice but to move to the Pacific Northwest.


Pac NW is just as bad, man.

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bk1
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Re: Seattle U vs McGeorge vs USF vs SCU

Postby bk1 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:20 pm

dr123 wrote:
risktaker wrote:Seeing that thread about UCB 3L in top 25% of his class striking out speaks volumes about CA's legal market. I might have no choice but to move to the Pacific Northwest.


Pac NW is just as bad, man.


Kinda. PNW is probably better than Bay Area (though about the same as Sac and slightly worse than SoCal).

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dr123
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Re: Seattle U vs McGeorge vs USF vs SCU

Postby dr123 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:25 pm

bk1 wrote:
dr123 wrote:
risktaker wrote:Seeing that thread about UCB 3L in top 25% of his class striking out speaks volumes about CA's legal market. I might have no choice but to move to the Pacific Northwest.


Pac NW is just as bad, man.


Kinda. PNW is probably better than Bay Area (though about the same as Sac and slightly worse than SoCal).


The difference is marginal at best, If he goes to Seattle U hes not going to have access to the other side of the Mountains at all, unless OP has some sort of connection to Eastern Washington. If he was going to UW itd be different, but I dont really think there's a significant difference between Seattle U in the Sound and USF in the Bay

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bk1
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Re: Seattle U vs McGeorge vs USF vs SCU

Postby bk1 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:27 pm

dr123 wrote:The difference is marginal at best, If he goes to Seattle U hes not going to have access to the other side of the Mountains at all, unless OP has some sort of connection to Eastern Washington. If he was going to UW itd be different, but I dont really think there's a significant difference between Seattle U in the Sound and USF in the Bay


I don't understand the comparison in your last sentence because I don't get the reference to Puget Sound.

What I was referring to was that SU graduates 1/2 its class into full time lawyer jobs versus 1/4 at USF/SCU. That's a big difference to me.

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dr123
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Re: Seattle U vs McGeorge vs USF vs SCU

Postby dr123 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:31 pm

bk1 wrote:
dr123 wrote:The difference is marginal at best, If he goes to Seattle U hes not going to have access to the other side of the Mountains at all, unless OP has some sort of connection to Eastern Washington. If he was going to UW itd be different, but I dont really think there's a significant difference between Seattle U in the Sound and USF in the Bay


I don't understand the comparison in your last sentence because I don't get the reference to Puget Sound.

What I was referring to was that SU graduates 1/2 its class into full time lawyer jobs versus 1/4 at USF/SCU. That's a big difference to me.


Puget Sound is Seattle U's Home Market, just like the Bay Area is USF's home market.

Puget Sound is King, Thurston, Pierce, and Snohomish Counties

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bk1
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Re: Seattle U vs McGeorge vs USF vs SCU

Postby bk1 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:32 pm

dr123 wrote:Puget Sound is Seattle U's Home Market, just like the Bay Area is USF's home market.


Then I absolutely think that SU does much better there than USF does in the Bay.

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risktaker
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Re: Seattle U vs McGeorge vs USF vs SCU

Postby risktaker » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:55 pm

If you guys were picking between Seattle U and USD, which one would you choose? USD at sticker or SU at 8k per w/ top 50% stip.




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