GULC vs. UCLA WL

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what to do

Poll ended at Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:26 pm

Just go to GULC
12
43%
100% Commit to UCLA in LOCI
12
43%
Wait out the wait-list
4
14%
 
Total votes: 28

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FlanAl
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GULC vs. UCLA WL

Postby FlanAl » Mon May 23, 2011 6:26 pm

I am essentially left with GULC and the UCLA WL in my cycle. Obviously UCLA is not an option yet but I would like to make it one. Unfortunately I'm pretty sure the best way to do this is to write them letting them know that I will definitely matriculate if accepted. So this thread is sort of a UCLA vs Gtown and if everyone tells me UCLA I'll probably send them that hail mary letter.

About me:
California resident and would like to work here (have enough ties to get back if I leave)
SO (of 6 years) will be in NYC
Would like San Diego BigLaw but understand that thats going to be really hard

My biggest worry about UCLA is the tuition going up to where I would have saved money by attending GULC. I really like the idea of living in DC for three years but I'm not sure it is worth forgoing the "networking" opportunities of UCLA. I'd be kinda bummed attending UCLA at sticker (another T15 offered me a nice scholarship that I turned down for Gtown and my optimism with wait lists)

Thanks a bunch for any advice!

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bk1
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Re: GULC vs. UCLA WL

Postby bk1 » Mon May 23, 2011 6:39 pm

I think I'd take GULC if I were you (and I'm waitlisted at GULC fwiw). Higher chance of paying off sticker price debt (though not astronomically higher) and far closer to SO. Probably less overall chance at SoCal employment generally coming from GULC due to easier networking being in LA. The question is, how important is SD and/or SoCal to you?

If SoCal biglaw > NYC/DC biglaw > SoCal smalllaw > NYC/DC smalllaw then GULC.
If SoCal biglaw > SoCal smalllaw > NYC/DC biglaw > NYC/DC smalllaw then UCLA.

stylishlaw
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Re: GULC vs. UCLA WL

Postby stylishlaw » Mon May 23, 2011 7:53 pm

I like the idea of the hail mary LOCI. There are certain schools out there who are more likely to accept you if you make it clear that it's your first choice. Also, getting in off the waitlist doesn't automatically prevent you from getting money. From talking to a few people who got off the Vandy waitlist, they got money in-line with their numbers.

The thing is, BigLaw employment prospects at GULC and UCLA are actually very similar. GULC has a very small edge but both schools have almost identical GPA/rank cutoffs for the firms that show up at OCI. GULC has a regional advantage on the east coast, in particular placement in NYC/DC. UCLA has a decisive west coast advantage.

I think bk1's logic is spot on, but am leaning towards UCLA for the California advantage. It comes down to what you would prefer if you don't get San Diego. Would you rather have your backup be SoCal/LA or NYC/DC?

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Corwin
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Re: GULC vs. UCLA WL

Postby Corwin » Tue May 24, 2011 12:21 am

RE: UCLA tuition increase: Once you matriculate isn't your tuition locked in? Sorry for my ignorance... Also, I agree with bk1's assessment as well.

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FlanAl
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Re: GULC vs. UCLA WL

Postby FlanAl » Tue May 24, 2011 2:27 am

Corwin wrote:RE: UCLA tuition increase: Once you matriculate isn't your tuition locked in? Sorry for my ignorance... Also, I agree with bk1's assessment as well.


i'm not sure but a lot of people cite it here as a reason not to got to berk or ucla

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FlanAl
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Re: GULC vs. UCLA WL

Postby FlanAl » Tue May 24, 2011 2:36 am

stylishlaw wrote:I like the idea of the hail mary LOCI. There are certain schools out there who are more likely to accept you if you make it clear that it's your first choice. Also, getting in off the waitlist doesn't automatically prevent you from getting money. From talking to a few people who got off the Vandy waitlist, they got money in-line with their numbers.


One huge issue that I just thought of with the "hail mary" option is how far down the line the school could use it. I mean what if UCLA decides to accept me a week into classes and tries to do the "well you said you would come here no matter what". Although it is a little better for my interests I'm not sure its worth the losing my deposit travel across the country again expenses.

Would it be super weird to do the hail mary with like a date stipulation? haha "I will 100% attend if admitted by the 10th, 80% attend by the 20th, and only 50% attend by the 30th." not sure how they'd take that but it would be nice to work out some kind of agreement...

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Corwin
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Re: GULC vs. UCLA WL

Postby Corwin » Tue May 24, 2011 2:37 am

FlanAl wrote:
stylishlaw wrote:I like the idea of the hail mary LOCI. There are certain schools out there who are more likely to accept you if you make it clear that it's your first choice. Also, getting in off the waitlist doesn't automatically prevent you from getting money. From talking to a few people who got off the Vandy waitlist, they got money in-line with their numbers.

Would it be super weird to do the hail mary with like a date stipulation? haha "I will 100% attend if admitted by the 10th, 80% attend by the 20th, and only 50% attend by the 30th." not sure how they'd take that but it would be nice to work out some kind of agreement...

I don't think that is a good idea. You never want to seem like you are making demands or ultimatums in a LOCI.

flexityflex86
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Re: GULC vs. UCLA WL

Postby flexityflex86 » Tue May 24, 2011 2:43 am

Corwin wrote:
FlanAl wrote:
stylishlaw wrote:I like the idea of the hail mary LOCI. There are certain schools out there who are more likely to accept you if you make it clear that it's your first choice. Also, getting in off the waitlist doesn't automatically prevent you from getting money. From talking to a few people who got off the Vandy waitlist, they got money in-line with their numbers.

Would it be super weird to do the hail mary with like a date stipulation? haha "I will 100% attend if admitted by the 10th, 80% attend by the 20th, and only 50% attend by the 30th." not sure how they'd take that but it would be nice to work out some kind of agreement...

I don't think that is a good idea. You never want to seem like you are making demands or ultimatums in a LOCI.

I think he's kidding. I can see an instance to do the ultimatum, but only if you're really 100% sure, and not just trying to make your life is convenient.

For example, if you're married with kids and this influences where your kids go to school or your wife is 7 months pregnant and won't be able to pick up and move again then maybe an ultimatum is qualified.

However, if you're just trying to get out of craiglisting to sublet an apartment then I think it's a bad idea.

I definitely don't think an ultimatum is going to improve your chances, but the school will probably try harder to honor your request.

stylishlaw
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Re: GULC vs. UCLA WL

Postby stylishlaw » Tue May 24, 2011 2:48 am

Are schools able to accept you after your classes start? I would imagine there would be a point where you already paid the tuition for that semester and it would be almost criminal for them to force you to attend.

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Lawquacious
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Re: GULC vs. UCLA WL

Postby Lawquacious » Tue May 24, 2011 2:56 am

Given your preference for living and working in CA, I do think UCLA would be a good choice. But I also think if that doesn't work out, or for other reasons you decide to go to GULC, you can reach back into the CA market from GULC IMO, especially if you do fairly well.

I would write a LOCI though for sure. I'm not sure making it clear you are 'committing' to UCLA will help, because it could come off as desperate IMO. But OTOH, stating an unequivocal intention (and perhaps commitment) maybe could help. At the very least, I think expressing strong continued interest may help.

Best of luck.

flexityflex86
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Re: GULC vs. UCLA WL

Postby flexityflex86 » Tue May 24, 2011 3:00 am

stylishlaw wrote:Are schools able to accept you after your classes start? I would imagine there would be a point where you already paid the tuition for that semester and it would be almost criminal for them to force you to attend.

I think it sometimes goes into orientation, but I guess more so with top schools. I don't know how many people would remove across the country for #60 versus #55. However, for a school like GULC or UCLA, it may be worth it. I can't see them going so far into classes just cause if you're paying sticker to a great school, but starting off at such a disadvantage (i.e. missing 2 weeks of classes), it probably makes sense just to stay in the lower ranked school.

8ballistic
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Re: GULC vs. UCLA WL

Postby 8ballistic » Tue May 24, 2011 3:41 am

Just say "at this moment" or "right now" you are 100% committed. Once you realize you could not realistically switch to UCLA, send them an e-mail that you can no longer accept. You don't need to qualify anything, and you're telling the truth.

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FlanAl
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Re: GULC vs. UCLA WL

Postby FlanAl » Tue May 24, 2011 9:19 am

off to work but thought that I should add that I wrote a very targeted LOCI the day after I got put on the waitlist. This thread is for whether or not I should write a new one with 100% commitment (the first did not have this) AND
numbers: no gpa (foreign) 170 (essentially a like a 3.5 splitter)

so yeah with those numbers getting in at ucla is going to be tough

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Magnolia
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Re: GULC vs. UCLA WL

Postby Magnolia » Tue May 24, 2011 10:14 am

FlanAl wrote:off to work but thought that I should add that I wrote a very targeted LOCI the day after I got put on the waitlist. This thread is for whether or not I should write a new one with 100% commitment (the first did not have this) AND
numbers: no gpa (foreign) 170 (essentially a like a 3.5 splitter)

so yeah with those numbers getting in at ucla is going to be tough

You seem to prefer UCLA, so I would write the hail mary LOCI. As you said, your numbers make it a bit of a longshot, so the more you can do to stand out, the better. If at some point you feel like you're too committed to GULC to back out, just withdraw from the WL at that time. That will give you your best shot at getting in, while not locking you in to switching schools after you've moved across the country or alienating the adcomms with a deadline.

Emma1
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Re: GULC vs. UCLA WL

Postby Emma1 » Tue May 24, 2011 2:28 pm

I dont think the law schools expect you to be fully committed to going to their school up to the beginning of fall semester. It means that right now and in the immediate future you are committed. This is presumed in my opinion. As the summer progresses you can send another LOCI if you chose further commitment. Usually a law school will send you an email to see if you are still interested later down the road and just before they reach the next group on the waitlist.

fingersxd
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Re: GULC vs. UCLA WL

Postby fingersxd » Tue May 24, 2011 4:18 pm

I'm not as convinced that these sorts of "hail mary" LOCI's are all that useful. I've gotten the impression that far too many people say they would attend, but then don't (for whatever reason -- some valid). There's not much the school can do to you anyway. What about hedging your bets and just saying "UCLA is my top choice" rather than "I would abso-friggin-lutely attend"?

I have a slight east coast bias in favor of GULC. I think GULC>UCLA anywhere outside the West Coast and like the flexbiity that offers. I also like the appeal of getting 'away' for a few years (I'm doing this so it's a completely personal comment, but seems to apply to you as well).

Something else nobody has noted, LA-NY is about as long distance as it gets...do you really want to do that for 3 years? And will your SO eventually move to SoCal if you want to stay in SD?

fingersxd
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Re: GULC vs. UCLA WL

Postby fingersxd » Tue May 24, 2011 4:26 pm

Corwin wrote:RE: UCLA tuition increase: Once you matriculate isn't your tuition locked in? Sorry for my ignorance... Also, I agree with bk1's assessment as well.


Some schools lock your tuition, but an overwhelming majority do not. This is the reason people are wary of UCLA and Berkeley...rising prices that most expect will (i) bring in In-State Tuition very close to Out-of-State, (ii) lead to greater % increases in tuition YoY than at comparable schools, (iii) keep the amount of scholarship $ in a tighter band.

One of the big appeals of those schools was that in the past resiency was easy to attain so aside from their quality, they were relatively cheaper. This is generally not the case anymore so it may also adversely impact the quality (by which I only mean median LSAT/GPA) of the students that attend. (Probably not sufficiently to make a large difference, but I tend to overthink things).




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