Senator Boxer continues pressure on ABA to reform

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jenesaislaw
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Senator Boxer continues pressure on ABA to reform

Postby jenesaislaw » Fri May 20, 2011 1:21 pm

In her latest letter, Senator Boxer points out that the ABA is off to a good start, but that more needs to be done.

Senator Boxer would like to see the ABA address:
* the auditing of law school data (noting that current proposals continue to allow self-reporting without auditing procedures);
* better regulation of how prospective students can access information, focusing primarily on how law schools advertise employment outcomes on their websites; and
* the need for more scholarship transparency.

Coverage:
Law School Transparency, --LinkRemoved--
The Faculty Lounge, http://www.thefacultylounge.org/2011/05 ... lease.html
National Law Journal, http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2494778309 (quotes by Observationalist)


PS, everybody say happy birthday to Observationalist!
Last edited by jenesaislaw on Fri May 20, 2011 5:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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buckilaw
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Re: Senator Boxer continues pressure on ABA to reform

Postby buckilaw » Fri May 20, 2011 1:24 pm

jenesaislaw wrote:In her latest letter, Senator Boxer points out that the ABA is off to a good start, but that more needs to be done.

Senator Boxer would like to see the ABA address:
* the auditing of law school data (noting that current proposals continue to allow self-reporting without auditing procedures);
* better regulation of how prospective students can access information, focusing primarily on how law schools advertise employment outcomes on their websites; and
* the need for more scholarship transparency.

Coverage:
Law School Transparency, --LinkRemoved--
The Faculty Lounge, http://www.thefacultylounge.org/2011/05 ... lease.html


Auditing would be a great step in the right direction.

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EstboundNDwn
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Re: Senator Boxer continues pressure on ABA to reform

Postby EstboundNDwn » Fri May 20, 2011 2:09 pm

jenesaislaw wrote:In her latest letter, Senator Boxer points out that the ABA is off to a good start, but that more needs to be done.

Senator Boxer would like to see the ABA address:
* the auditing of law school data (noting that current proposals continue to allow self-reporting without auditing procedures);
* better regulation of how prospective students can access information, focusing primarily on how law schools advertise employment outcomes on their websites; and
* the need for more scholarship transparency.

Coverage:
Law School Transparency, --LinkRemoved--
The Faculty Lounge, http://www.thefacultylounge.org/2011/05 ... lease.html



PS, everybody say happy birthday to Observationalist!


Wow. Boxer is actually doing something worthy of her title.

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Grizz
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Re: Senator Boxer continues pressure on ABA to reform

Postby Grizz » Fri May 20, 2011 2:11 pm

Happy bday observationalist, if you're reading this.

scammedhard
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Re: Senator Boxer continues pressure on ABA to reform

Postby scammedhard » Fri May 20, 2011 2:12 pm

buckilaw wrote:Auditing would be a great step in the right direction.

+1.

Law schools are a bunch of liars. They don't care about anything but their tuition dollars that are paid upfront by the federal government in the form of student loans. Either reform the system with transparency and accountability, or get rid of the federal teat. I would prefer the latter.

The most amazing thing is that the ABA is still MIA. They keep meeting and chatting about these issues that reached the boiling point long ago. I say get rid of these useless crooks and find some other institution to actually regulate and oversee legal education.

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Grizz
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Re: Senator Boxer continues pressure on ABA to reform

Postby Grizz » Fri May 20, 2011 2:14 pm

scammedhard wrote:
buckilaw wrote:Auditing would be a great step in the right direction.

+1.

Law schools are a bunch of liars. They don't care about anything but their tuition dollars that are paid upfront by the federal government in the form of student loans. Either reform the system with transparency and accountability, or get rid of the federal teat. I would prefer the latter.

The most amazing thing is that the ABA is still MIA. They keep meeting and chatting about these issues that reached the boiling point long ago. I say get rid of these useless crooks and find some other institution to actually regulate and oversee legal education.


Agreed.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Senator Boxer continues pressure on ABA to reform

Postby jenesaislaw » Fri May 20, 2011 5:14 pm

Update: Stephen Zack, the ABA President, has responded: --LinkRemoved--

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TaipeiMort
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Re: Senator Boxer continues pressure on ABA to reform

Postby TaipeiMort » Fri May 20, 2011 5:27 pm

While this doesn't change my opinion of her as a pale, dishonest, hackish imitation of the Diane Fienstein, I give her huge props for this.

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Grizz
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Re: Senator Boxer continues pressure on ABA to reform

Postby Grizz » Fri May 20, 2011 5:34 pm

jenesaislaw wrote:Update: Stephen Zack, the ABA President, has responded: --LinkRemoved--


Glad we heard from Stephen Zack, that toothless buffoon.

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EstboundNDwn
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Re: Senator Boxer continues pressure on ABA to reform

Postby EstboundNDwn » Fri May 20, 2011 6:57 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:While this doesn't change my opinion of her as a pale, dishonest, hackish imitation of the Diane Fienstein, I give her huge props for this.


That's probably the most concise and accurate description of Boxer ever written.

Either way, hopefully this garners more attention for the cause. It's just too bad that a hack like Boxer is going to be the face of the inquiry.

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BackToTheOldHouse
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Re: Senator Boxer continues pressure on ABA to reform

Postby BackToTheOldHouse » Tue May 24, 2011 11:33 am

rad law wrote:
scammedhard wrote:
buckilaw wrote:Auditing would be a great step in the right direction.

+1.

Law schools are a bunch of liars. They don't care about anything but their tuition dollars that are paid upfront by the federal government in the form of student loans. Either reform the system with transparency and accountability, or get rid of the federal teat. I would prefer the latter.

The most amazing thing is that the ABA is still MIA. They keep meeting and chatting about these issues that reached the boiling point long ago. I say get rid of these useless crooks and find some other institution to actually regulate and oversee legal education.


Agreed.

Just so I'm clear on this--you two want the federal teat gotten rid of? Why?

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EstboundNDwn
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Re: Senator Boxer continues pressure on ABA to reform

Postby EstboundNDwn » Tue May 24, 2011 12:06 pm

BackToTheOldHouse wrote:
rad law wrote:
scammedhard wrote:
buckilaw wrote:Auditing would be a great step in the right direction.

+1.

Law schools are a bunch of liars. They don't care about anything but their tuition dollars that are paid upfront by the federal government in the form of student loans. Either reform the system with transparency and accountability, or get rid of the federal teat. I would prefer the latter.

The most amazing thing is that the ABA is still MIA. They keep meeting and chatting about these issues that reached the boiling point long ago. I say get rid of these useless crooks and find some other institution to actually regulate and oversee legal education.


Agreed.

Just so I'm clear on this--you two want the federal teat gotten rid of? Why?


This is why:
http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/t ... will-burst

If the government teat were taken away then schools would have to fight to keep costs down, instead of overpaying professors because they know that the government is providing cheap cash that students can't repay.

It's the same scenario with the housing bubble and also one of the biggest reasons why health care is so expensive.

The government has created an artificially inflated market.

TheFactor
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Re: Senator Boxer continues pressure on ABA to reform

Postby TheFactor » Tue May 24, 2011 12:59 pm

Could we please start addressing Mrs. Boxer as Senator Boxer? She worked hard for that title.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Senator Boxer continues pressure on ABA to reform

Postby Stringer Bell » Tue May 24, 2011 1:04 pm

EstboundNDwn wrote:If the government teat were taken away then schools would have to fight to keep costs down, instead of overpaying professors because they know that the government is providing cheap cash that students can't repay.

It's the same scenario with the housing bubble and also one of the biggest reasons why health care is so expensive.

The government has created an artificially inflated market.


Pretty much this.

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BackToTheOldHouse
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Re: Senator Boxer continues pressure on ABA to reform

Postby BackToTheOldHouse » Tue May 24, 2011 1:11 pm

TheFactor wrote:Could we please start addressing Mrs. Boxer as Senator Boxer? She worked hard for that title.

lol

Capitol A
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Re: Senator Boxer continues pressure on ABA to reform

Postby Capitol A » Tue May 24, 2011 1:31 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:
EstboundNDwn wrote:If the government teat were taken away then schools would have to fight to keep costs down, instead of overpaying professors because they know that the government is providing cheap cash that students can't repay.

It's the same scenario with the housing bubble and also one of the biggest reasons why health care is so expensive.

The government has created an artificially inflated market.


Pretty much this.

Couldn't have said it better myself.
BackToTheOldHouse wrote:
TheFactor wrote:Could we please start addressing Mrs. Boxer as Senator Boxer? She worked hard for that title.

lol

I would rather not address her at all...Unless she gets in the ring with Manny Pacquiao. Then I will refer to her as whatever type of boxer she wants.

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Bill Cosby
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Re: Senator Boxer continues pressure on ABA to reform

Postby Bill Cosby » Tue May 24, 2011 2:11 pm

rad law wrote:
scammedhard wrote:
buckilaw wrote:Auditing would be a great step in the right direction.

+1.

Law schools are a bunch of liars. They don't care about anything but their tuition dollars that are paid upfront by the federal government in the form of student loans. Either reform the system with transparency and accountability, or get rid of the federal teat. I would prefer the latter.

The most amazing thing is that the ABA is still MIA. They keep meeting and chatting about these issues that reached the boiling point long ago. I say get rid of these useless crooks and find some other institution to actually regulate and oversee legal education.


Agreed.


Great idea. Instead of the best and the brightest, we'll have whoever has parents wealthy enough to foot the bill.

Capitol A
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Re: Senator Boxer continues pressure on ABA to reform

Postby Capitol A » Tue May 24, 2011 2:22 pm

Great idea. Instead of the best and the brightest, we'll have whoever has parents wealthy enough to foot the bill.



This assumes that the only source of funding is either parents or the government. Do you really believe that? If you do, then you are not correct.
The funding for my legal education will come from neither of those sources.

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Bill Cosby
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Re: Senator Boxer continues pressure on ABA to reform

Postby Bill Cosby » Tue May 24, 2011 2:26 pm

Capitol A wrote:
Great idea. Instead of the best and the brightest, we'll have whoever has parents wealthy enough to foot the bill.



This assumes that the only source of funding is either parents or the government. Do you really believe that? If you do, then you are not correct.
The funding for my legal education will come from neither of those sources.


Please, I'd love to hear some of these alternatives. Savings, but that's pretty unrealistic unless people are going to wait until their 40s before attending.

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kwais
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Re: Senator Boxer continues pressure on ABA to reform

Postby kwais » Tue May 24, 2011 2:56 pm

Capitol A wrote:
Great idea. Instead of the best and the brightest, we'll have whoever has parents wealthy enough to foot the bill.



This assumes that the only source of funding is either parents or the government. Do you really believe that? If you do, then you are not correct.
The funding for my legal education will come from neither of those sources.


?

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glitter178
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Re: Senator Boxer continues pressure on ABA to reform

Postby glitter178 » Tue May 24, 2011 2:58 pm

Bill Cosby wrote:
Capitol A wrote:
Great idea. Instead of the best and the brightest, we'll have whoever has parents wealthy enough to foot the bill.



This assumes that the only source of funding is either parents or the government. Do you really believe that? If you do, then you are not correct.
The funding for my legal education will come from neither of those sources.


Please, I'd love to hear some of these alternatives. Savings, but that's pretty unrealistic unless people are going to wait until their 40s before attending.


merit scholarships.

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Bill Cosby
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Re: Senator Boxer continues pressure on ABA to reform

Postby Bill Cosby » Tue May 24, 2011 3:13 pm

glitter178 wrote:
Bill Cosby wrote:
Capitol A wrote:
Great idea. Instead of the best and the brightest, we'll have whoever has parents wealthy enough to foot the bill.



This assumes that the only source of funding is either parents or the government. Do you really believe that? If you do, then you are not correct.
The funding for my legal education will come from neither of those sources.


Please, I'd love to hear some of these alternatives. Savings, but that's pretty unrealistic unless people are going to wait until their 40s before attending.


merit scholarships.


Still doesn't really address my objection, because you're effectively saying people who are already disadvantaged from having less connections should also attend inferior schools (relative to their ability) due to cost.

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glitter178
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Re: Senator Boxer continues pressure on ABA to reform

Postby glitter178 » Tue May 24, 2011 3:18 pm

Still doesn't really address my objection, because you're effectively saying people who are already disadvantaged from having less connections should also attend inferior schools (relative to their ability) due to cost.
/quote

i didn't post the original quote to which you're objecting, i only gave an example when you asked for one re: other sources of funding. however, i don't really understand what you're saying. can you clarify please?

Capitol A
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Re: Senator Boxer continues pressure on ABA to reform

Postby Capitol A » Tue May 24, 2011 3:21 pm

Bill Cosby wrote:
Capitol A wrote:
Great idea. Instead of the best and the brightest, we'll have whoever has parents wealthy enough to foot the bill.



This assumes that the only source of funding is either parents or the government. Do you really believe that? If you do, then you are not correct.
The funding for my legal education will come from neither of those sources.


Please, I'd love to hear some of these alternatives. Savings, but that's pretty unrealistic unless people are going to wait until their 40s before attending.

I'm 29 and paying with savings.
There are also private loans available, and there would likely be more private loans available if gov't loans weren't so abundant. The government loans are so cheap and easy to come by that they practically encourage irresponsible, unsustainable lending for the financing of bad investments (see 'housing crisis'); and isn't that what this whole discussion really boils down to? How good/bad of investment is law school? If cutting off the gov't funding would make people look a little closer at the value of legal education, wouldn't that be a good thing? If private loans cause law school to be a bad investment for people who would otherwise be using gov't loans, why is it okay for them to make an un-wise investment with tax dollars?
Btw, your initial statement also implies that there is no cross over between the 2 groups you mention (best & brightest v. people with rich parents). This is obviously not true.

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TommyK
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Re: Senator Boxer continues pressure on ABA to reform

Postby TommyK » Tue May 24, 2011 3:23 pm

glitter178 wrote:Still doesn't really address my objection, because you're effectively saying people who are already disadvantaged from having less connections should also attend inferior schools (relative to their ability) due to cost.
/quote

i didn't post the original quote to which you're objecting, i only gave an example when you asked for one re: other sources of funding. however, i don't really understand what you're saying. can you clarify please?


The reason you're able to get the merit scholarship is because law school tuition is so wildly inflated that many other saps are playing full tuition (with federally supported loans). So while your source of payment is from merit scholarships, the source of payment from the merit scholarships is the loans. Get rid of the loans, the merit schollies would dry up as well.




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