What schools are worth sticker?

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fish52
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What schools are worth sticker?

Postby fish52 » Thu May 19, 2011 11:34 pm

Sorry if this has been covered before (I would be surprised if it hasn't), but I'm curious about general opinions concerning which schools are worth sticker. T14? T10? Just YHS? And how much debt is TOO much- all things considered? I'm purposefully leaving this pretty open ended (as far as career interests, etc.)

TIA

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dpk711
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Re: What schools are worth sticker?

Postby dpk711 » Thu May 19, 2011 11:42 pm

Depends on your situation, especially how debt adverse you are. But generally speaking I wouldn't say the entire T14 is worth sticker. IMHO GULC is definitely not worth sticker. Personally, I would only contemplate paying sticker from MVP upwards. CCN is when almost everyone on TLS agrees is worth full price.

Edited: damn typo
Last edited by dpk711 on Thu May 19, 2011 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Verity
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Re: What schools are worth sticker?

Postby Verity » Thu May 19, 2011 11:44 pm

The only good answer to this question is relative, not absolute.

For example, if you get CCN at sticker, then you probably got money from BMVP, which makes CCN @ sticker less easy to justify (depending of course on career goals). Even HYS, while understandable, may not make sense with a full ride to CCN (especially if you don't want clerkship or academia). But I'd say that ITE, any school lesser ranked than Northwestern at full sticker is dumb. In such a case, you should probably just reapply.

Gideon Strumpet
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Re: What schools are worth sticker?

Postby Gideon Strumpet » Thu May 19, 2011 11:44 pm

Poll or GTFO.

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dpk711
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Re: What schools are worth sticker?

Postby dpk711 » Thu May 19, 2011 11:45 pm

Gideon Strumpet wrote:Poll or GTFO.

don't be that guy

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tyro
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Re: What schools are worth sticker?

Postby tyro » Thu May 19, 2011 11:53 pm

Looking at past decisions from users on Law School Numbers (LSN) contemplating merit scholly offers vs. sticker price acceptances would really interest and help you I think. Does seem to follow the T6 trend the previous poster mentioned in terms of sticker vs. scholly. I was surprised when I first noticed this trend tbh but it seems consistent at less than say 75k offers. Take a look for yourself.

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Rock-N-Roll
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Re: What schools are worth sticker?

Postby Rock-N-Roll » Fri May 20, 2011 12:16 am

It seems that if one were to consider law school tuition as an investment, then, given the current state of the economy and job prospects for new law school graduates, law school is an investment that carries some risk. Certain schools are less risky than others and scholarships can potentially hedge against risk at more risky schools.

But what does worth mean in the context of OP's question?

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beachbum
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Re: What schools are worth sticker?

Postby beachbum » Fri May 20, 2011 12:27 am

First, it's all incredibly relative to your offers, career goals, debt aversion, and personal preferences. It's dumb to assert that x school (or group of schools) is always worth sticker, because the variables that go into a law school decision are numerous, and tend to vary from person to person.

But on that note, it's pretty stupid to say that MVP(B) are worth sticker (with the implication that DNC(G) are not), like there's some magical line separating the lower T14. If you're gonna make wild, sweeping claims, at least be consistent.

Edit: "Ranking lower than Northwestern" is an equally stupid distinction and/or egregious anti-Cornell trolling.
Last edited by beachbum on Fri May 20, 2011 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Grizz
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Re: What schools are worth sticker?

Postby Grizz » Fri May 20, 2011 12:29 am

Image



ENJOY

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TaipeiMort
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Re: What schools are worth sticker?

Postby TaipeiMort » Fri May 20, 2011 12:35 am

Any school might be worth sticker to someone.

Objectively, generalizing, and assuming you are asking about assurance of paying off debt through biglaw:

YHSCC nationally and NYU in NYC.

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Rock-N-Roll
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Re: What schools are worth sticker?

Postby Rock-N-Roll » Fri May 20, 2011 12:49 am

TaipeiMort wrote:Any school might be worth sticker to someone.


I agree with this part of your post 100%. What I was trying to get at in my previous post is the following:

It is well known that different law schools have different levels of prestige and that all (or just about all) law schools rank their students. We also expect that a student at a less prestigious school needs to be ranked higher in his or her class than a student in a more prestigious school to compete effectively against that student from the more prestigious school for a job or clerkship.

Therefore if worth means return on investment, then the ultimate determinant of worth is one's own performance as a law student.

I think Beachbum got it right. It doesn't make sense to call any respectable law school categorically not worth tuition or not worth attending. More goes into it then that.

protein
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Re: What schools are worth sticker?

Postby protein » Fri May 20, 2011 5:05 am

T13

shoeshine
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Re: What schools are worth sticker?

Postby shoeshine » Fri May 20, 2011 5:19 am

Depends on what you mean.

HYS is worth it.

T6 and T14 might be worth it depending on your interests.

Everything else is not worth sticker unless it is these stickers:
Image

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dpk711
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Re: What schools are worth sticker?

Postby dpk711 » Fri May 20, 2011 6:12 am

shoeshine wrote:Depends on what you mean.

HYS is worth it.

T6 and T14 might be worth it depending on your interests.

Everything else is not worth sticker unless it is these stickers:
Image

damn, I miss the 90s...

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arvcondor
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Re: What schools are worth sticker?

Postby arvcondor » Fri May 20, 2011 7:13 am

rad law wrote:Image



ENJOY


I'd love to know what search terms you advise OP to use to find this exact discussion in the archives.

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Law Sauce
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Re: What schools are worth sticker?

Postby Law Sauce » Fri May 20, 2011 8:15 am

dpk711 wrote:Depends on your situation, especially how debt adverse you are. But generally speaking I wouldn't say the entire T14 is worth sticker. IMHO GULC is definitely not worth sticker. Personally, I would only contemplate paying sticker from MVP upwards. CCN is when almost everyone on TLS agrees is worth full price.

Edited: damn typo


I strongly disagree. GULC is definitely worth sticker especially if you want to work for the federal government of a nonprofit org. GULC is one of the best schools for this (especially the not-ultra prestigious kind) + with GULC's LRAP you wont pay a nickel of the price tag if you make less then ~75k. That means you not only don't pay tuition but even your living expenses are covered after your debt is forgiven. Obviously, if you go this route, GULC is worth it.

This is all just to say that blanket statements are worthless. For someone who wants the best firm job in NYC he can get, it makes a lot more sense to go to Fordham at sticker instead of taking his only other offers of Alabama at half off, etc. It is all relative to personal and career goals, other options, an personal preference.

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Bill Cosby
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Re: What schools are worth sticker?

Postby Bill Cosby » Fri May 20, 2011 8:36 am

Law Sauce wrote:I strongly disagree. GULC is definitely worth sticker especially if you want to work for the federal government of a nonprofit org. GULC is one of the best schools for this (especially the not-ultra prestigious kind) + with GULC's LRAP you wont pay a nickel of the price tag if you make less then ~75k. That means you not only don't pay tuition but even your living expenses are covered after your debt is forgiven. Obviously, if you go this route, GULC is worth it.


But how often is that the case?

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Bill Cosby
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Re: What schools are worth sticker?

Postby Bill Cosby » Fri May 20, 2011 8:38 am

While T-14 is a pretty common response, I'd also add a plug for state schools if you have in-state tuition and want to remain in that market. If you want to work in Omaha, no reason to not attend Nebraska for 12k per year.

duckmoney
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Re: What schools are worth sticker?

Postby duckmoney » Fri May 20, 2011 8:43 am

I think it is impossible to say which schools are worth sticker because it varies greatly based on preferences, goals, alternative offers, etc. Cornell is worth sticker for someone who wants NYC biglaw, for instance, but not so much for someone who wants to break into San Francisco.

However, I think it is much easier to say which schools are not worth sticker under any circumstances. And the answer IMHO is anything outside the t13. Even at schools with good LRAPs, because as you descend the rankings there becomes an ever greater probability that you won't even be able to get a qualifying PI job.

duckmoney
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Re: What schools are worth sticker?

Postby duckmoney » Fri May 20, 2011 8:46 am

Bill Cosby wrote:While T-14 is a pretty common response, I'd also add a plug for state schools if you have in-state tuition and want to remain in that market. If you want to work in Omaha, no reason to not attend Nebraska for 12k per year.


This is true, but "sticker" to me is a polite way of saying 45 - 50k a year. Any school with tuition less than this, including state school, can be seen as giving you a no stips scholarship for the difference. Yes, many regional schools are worth 12k per year. But they are objectively not worth 45.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: What schools are worth sticker?

Postby TaipeiMort » Fri May 20, 2011 11:16 am

Oh, and BYU as well. They have 10k yearly tuition and are a t1

woeisme
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Re: What schools are worth sticker?

Postby woeisme » Fri May 20, 2011 11:21 am

Verity wrote:The only good answer to this question is relative, not absolute.

For example, if you get CCN at sticker, then you probably got money from BMVP, which makes CCN @ sticker less easy to justify (depending of course on career goals). Even HYS, while understandable, may not make sense with a full ride to CCN (especially if you don't want clerkship or academia). But I'd say that ITE, any school lesser ranked than Northwestern at full sticker is dumb. In such a case, you should probably just reapply.


egregious anti-Cornell trolling. If a line is going to be drawn, it'd have to be between YHS and CCN or CCN and MBPV, not somewhere within DCNG (unless it's cutting off GULC which MIGHT make sense ITE).

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Stringer Bell
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Re: What schools are worth sticker?

Postby Stringer Bell » Fri May 20, 2011 11:28 am

Bill Cosby wrote:
Law Sauce wrote:I strongly disagree. GULC is definitely worth sticker especially if you want to work for the federal government of a nonprofit org. GULC is one of the best schools for this (especially the not-ultra prestigious kind) + with GULC's LRAP you wont pay a nickel of the price tag if you make less then ~75k. That means you not only don't pay tuition but even your living expenses are covered after your debt is forgiven. Obviously, if you go this route, GULC is worth it.


But how often is that the case?


20% of the time?

socraticmethodman
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Re: What schools are worth sticker?

Postby socraticmethodman » Fri May 20, 2011 11:31 am

arvcondor wrote:
rad law wrote:Image



ENJOY


I'd love to know what search terms you advise OP to use to find this exact discussion in the archives.


lol, are you kidding?

fish52
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Re: What schools are worth sticker?

Postby fish52 » Fri May 20, 2011 12:16 pm

rad law wrote:Image



ENJOY

Not sure why you people even bother to reply, then. It's ALL been discussed before, so I assume you won't be posting on TLS anymore. We won't miss your invaluable contributions.

For those of you who are aren't insufferable douches, thanks for the feedback. It's all appreciated!




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