3 Solid Options w/ $$$, No idea where to attend.

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which would you choose

William & Mary - In State Tuition (21K in tuition p/y)
15
26%
Notre Dame - 20K scholarship p/y (around 24K in tuition p/y)
30
52%
Wake Forest - 30K scholarship p/y (around 9K in tuition p/y)
13
22%
 
Total votes: 58

parttime7
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3 Solid Options w/ $$$, No idea where to attend.

Postby parttime7 » Wed May 18, 2011 5:00 pm

I need to make a decision sooner rather than later. As of right now I am living in the Mid Atlantic and am 1 year out of UG. I have no UG debt and hold degrees in Economics and Finance. My dad is a senior partner as a BIGLAW firm in a secondary market and does quite well for himself. I could always come back to this market if I would choose to but I am not entirely sure if that is what I would ultimately like to do.

I would prefer a BIGLAW job somewhere on the East Coast and would possibly like to transition into business later down the road (See leaving before becoming partner).

I am down to 3 final options and could really use some advice and thoughts. I would like to keep debt low/minimal. CoL will be covered by my family so I do not have to factor that in my decision.

parttime7
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Re: 3 Solid Options w/ $$$, No idea where to attend.

Postby parttime7 » Wed May 18, 2011 5:14 pm

All advice is much appreciated.

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Grizz
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Re: 3 Solid Options w/ $$$, No idea where to attend.

Postby Grizz » Wed May 18, 2011 5:16 pm

Somewhere on the east coast is too broad a geographic region. What actual states do you want to work in?

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johnnyutah
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Re: 3 Solid Options w/ $$$, No idea where to attend.

Postby johnnyutah » Wed May 18, 2011 5:16 pm

If your dad is a BigLaw partner, he will be able to get you a job. Thus, take the cheapest option and celebrate.

parttime7
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Re: 3 Solid Options w/ $$$, No idea where to attend.

Postby parttime7 » Wed May 18, 2011 5:18 pm

johnnyutah wrote:If your dad is a BigLaw partner, he will be able to get you a job. Thus, take the cheapest option and celebrate.



Yes, however, it is in a state that I really do not see myself wanting to live in for my career.

parttime7
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Re: 3 Solid Options w/ $$$, No idea where to attend.

Postby parttime7 » Wed May 18, 2011 5:18 pm

rad law wrote:Somewhere on the east coast is too broad a geographic region. What actual states do you want to work in?



I really like DC

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Ersatz Haderach
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Re: 3 Solid Options w/ $$$, No idea where to attend.

Postby Ersatz Haderach » Wed May 18, 2011 5:20 pm

Your father's a partner, which gives you decent job security (I hope). You can view this two ways. Either you have the freedom to take the cheapest/safest deal you can get, or you have the freedom to spend whatever you wish for the most prestigious/enjoyable law school experience you can get. If CoL is covered by your family, the debt won't be that bad no matter where you go.

What are the scholarship stipulations for ND? If they're not draconian, I'd say go there. Broad alumni network + your dad = massive connections, and best ranking of the three for not that much money. Or, you could go to W&M which appears to be near your home market and build deeper connections there. ND and WM will both do fine in DC; WM probably a bit stronger. Hard market to crack but you have every advantage.

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johnnyutah
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Re: 3 Solid Options w/ $$$, No idea where to attend.

Postby johnnyutah » Wed May 18, 2011 5:23 pm

parttime7 wrote:
rad law wrote:Somewhere on the east coast is too broad a geographic region. What actual states do you want to work in?



I really like DC

If you want to work in DC and your pops can't get you a job there, go to W&M.

parttime7
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Re: 3 Solid Options w/ $$$, No idea where to attend.

Postby parttime7 » Wed May 18, 2011 5:29 pm

What I am having problems with is whether W&M is work 36K more than Wake. I know North Carolina is great but does Wake far well outside of NC?

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MarineLaw
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Re: 3 Solid Options w/ $$$, No idea where to attend.

Postby MarineLaw » Wed May 18, 2011 5:32 pm

What are the scholarship stipulations?

parttime7
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Re: 3 Solid Options w/ $$$, No idea where to attend.

Postby parttime7 » Wed May 18, 2011 5:34 pm

MarineLaw wrote:What are the scholarship stipulations?



All are basically good standing.

duckmoney
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Re: 3 Solid Options w/ $$$, No idea where to attend.

Postby duckmoney » Wed May 18, 2011 5:37 pm

Since you have a fallback option to pay off all your debt, go to the place that you'll have the best chance of getting your dream job.

I vote ND.

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JustE
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Re: 3 Solid Options w/ $$$, No idea where to attend.

Postby JustE » Wed May 18, 2011 5:45 pm

parttime7 wrote:What I am having problems with is whether W&M is work 36K more than Wake. I know North Carolina is great but does Wake far well outside of NC?


No. Take W&M or ND. DC is ND's 3rd largest market. If you don't want to stay in NC, drop Wake from your list.

parttime7
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Re: 3 Solid Options w/ $$$, No idea where to attend.

Postby parttime7 » Wed May 18, 2011 5:46 pm

Anyone have any comments as whether W&M and ND are peers in terms of prospects in DC and beyond?

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stratocophic
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Re: 3 Solid Options w/ $$$, No idea where to attend.

Postby stratocophic » Wed May 18, 2011 5:59 pm

parttime7 wrote:Anyone have any comments as whether W&M and ND are peers in terms of prospects in DC and beyond?
Just know that none of those schools are great options for Biglaw in DC. If TLS/xoxo are to be believed, DC is tough for T14 grads with decent grades to break into (to say nothing of T30 schools). Since you have the secondary market waiting on you, you should weigh heavily the 75-85%+ chance that you won't be able to break into the DC Biglaw market. Take the cheapest option, which is Wake.

parttime7
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Re: 3 Solid Options w/ $$$, No idea where to attend.

Postby parttime7 » Wed May 18, 2011 6:19 pm

parttime7 wrote:Anyone have any comments as whether W&M and ND are peers in terms of prospects in DC and beyond?



Still curious as to peoples thoughts on this.

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johnnyutah
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Re: 3 Solid Options w/ $$$, No idea where to attend.

Postby johnnyutah » Wed May 18, 2011 6:23 pm

parttime7 wrote:
parttime7 wrote:Anyone have any comments as whether W&M and ND are peers in terms of prospects in DC and beyond?



Still curious as to peoples thoughts on this.

Neither will help you get a job in DC. If you get one, it is going to have to be through your own initiative and not OCI. The relative reputation of your school will have little to no impact on your success. If you are dead set on going to one of these schools in order to practice in DC, it is pointless to choose based on which one you imagine will give you better chances.

parttime7
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Re: 3 Solid Options w/ $$$, No idea where to attend.

Postby parttime7 » Wed May 18, 2011 7:35 pm

Bump again, any thoughts from anyone?

wojo96
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Re: 3 Solid Options w/ $$$, No idea where to attend.

Postby wojo96 » Wed May 18, 2011 7:50 pm

All good choices at that value, though feel like ND has the most portability throughout the east.

Out of curiosity, what are your numbers (interested in ND next cycle)?

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uzpakalis
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Re: 3 Solid Options w/ $$$, No idea where to attend.

Postby uzpakalis » Wed May 18, 2011 8:19 pm

I think you should go to ND. ND is known by EVERYONE! I doubt the average joe off the street has even heard of W & M outside of the atlantic area. ND also has a real sports program, and, having visited many times, I think you'll really enjoy ND.

parttime7
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Re: 3 Solid Options w/ $$$, No idea where to attend.

Postby parttime7 » Thu May 19, 2011 11:09 am

It seems as if ND has pulled away. Does anyone have any other thoughts?

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Law Sauce
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Re: 3 Solid Options w/ $$$, No idea where to attend.

Postby Law Sauce » Thu May 19, 2011 11:16 am

uzpakalis wrote:I think you should go to ND. ND is known by EVERYONE! I doubt the average joe off the street has even heard of W & M outside of the atlantic area. ND also has a real sports program, and, having visited many times, I think you'll really enjoy ND.


I disagree and would take W&M. But both of our choices are probably most accreditable to personal preference. w&m has an incredibly long history and strong name due to its highly ranked ug programs. This is especially true in the mid-Atlantic region. Many people on the east know nd football but have no idea it is a good school. But this is irrelevant if we are talking about biglaw whose recruiting committee will just break out usnews and judge you on those rankings + grades. If you want dc > biglaw W&M can get you there and can give you about the same shot at biglaw as nd (probably better outside of the midwest). But I think that the schools offer similar prospects really. so...

if you want to have your career in the mid Atlantic region, it makes sense to go to school in that region unless the other schools you are consider is significantly better ranked like northwestern or something. ND is not goo enough imo. also, the money is not nearly different enough to choose wake over w&m imo. But personal preference may validly trump all of these considerations, also imo.

Which one do you want to go to? Where do you want to end up? (esp. if biglaw doesnt pan out, which is a good chance at any of these places)

Avocat Blanc
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Re: 3 Solid Options w/ $$$, No idea where to attend.

Postby Avocat Blanc » Thu May 19, 2011 12:15 pm

I am a 2L (3L now...) at W&M and I still voted ND. My account is purely anecdotal, but the likelihood of DC BigLaw from W&M is vastly overstated. If you aren't set on Virginia/DC I would not advise anyone to come here. That said if you aren't from Virginia, even top 10% + Law Review maybe puts you in the 50/50 chances of making money 2L summer here. Also don't weigh the GRF scholarship equally, it's a pain and a hassle and I know several people who've gotten instate and dropped it (amounting to a loss in $4k/yr scholly) by 3L year. I've been lucky enough to find a job, but the overwhelming majority of my peers are disappointed with their summer jobs, even when taken with a does of ITE perspective. I'd take ND and the broader range of options given it's alumni base and more nationally known reputation.

On a side note, if you want NC, take Wake. W&M students attempt, in mass, to get jobs in Charlotte/Raleigh and are routinely crushed by Wake/UNC kids. Again purely anecdotal, but that's been my experience.

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johnnyutah
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Re: 3 Solid Options w/ $$$, No idea where to attend.

Postby johnnyutah » Thu May 19, 2011 12:49 pm

Avocat Blanc wrote:I am a 2L (3L now...) at W&M and I still voted ND. My account is purely anecdotal, but the likelihood of DC BigLaw from W&M is vastly overstated. If you aren't set on Virginia/DC I would not advise anyone to come here. That said if you aren't from Virginia, even top 10% + Law Review maybe puts you in the 50/50 chances of making money 2L summer here. Also don't weigh the GRF scholarship equally, it's a pain and a hassle and I know several people who've gotten instate and dropped it (amounting to a loss in $4k/yr scholly) by 3L year. I've been lucky enough to find a job, but the overwhelming majority of my peers are disappointed with their summer jobs, even when taken with a does of ITE perspective. I'd take ND and the broader range of options given it's alumni base and more nationally known reputation.

This is a good post, but I suspect that the situation at ND is just about as bad.

parttime7
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Re: 3 Solid Options w/ $$$, No idea where to attend.

Postby parttime7 » Thu May 19, 2011 4:36 pm

I guess this is why I am contemplating WF so hard. I feel that going there for next to nothing will allow me to get a great job if I do well or be able to transfer up while keeping my risk/debt lower. Plus, it does seem like the better place to go to school compared to WBurg/South Bend.




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