Emory vs. Fordham

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gobucks101
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Re: Emory vs. Fordham

Postby gobucks101 » Mon May 16, 2011 6:40 pm

bk1 wrote: Which leads me back to my main point which was that paying sticker at Emory is a bad idea because the percentage of grads that can service sticker price debt there was around half (if not worse) in 2009 and it is worse now.


I agree with your bottom line about not paying sticker but not with what % of grads can service sticker price debt. Based on the data from your link, we know that 51% of the class of 2009 could service it at sticker price and go into private practice. For another 10% going government/PI, sticker price is irrelevant because of LRAP so that makes 61%. We don't know what part of that bottom 25% in private sector are making 30k and what percent are making 74k. Lets say somewhere between 61-65% can service the debt, based on those numbers. If you are facing sticker price, that is still one helluva gamble and not one I would take, especially if you could do Georgia in-state. In the midst of trashing non-t14s, I don't think anyone ever asked OP if he was actually paying sticker. Emory is probably one of if not the most generous schools with scholly money. I'm class of 2012, and if you were a 3.6+ and 166 you were going to get a 96k scholarship

MrAnon
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Re: Emory vs. Fordham

Postby MrAnon » Mon May 16, 2011 6:40 pm

Emory grads come from far and wide (California, northeast) to work in the Fulton County DAs office.

This is where the Emory argument breaks down. On the one hand people argue that its a national school, that it draws from the northeast, that it is worthy of moving around the country to attend. On the other hand, if you don't get biglaw, NO BIG DEAL, you can just go be DA in the Fulton County Prosecutors office.

That may be the dream of many students at Emory, but its a major disappointment for any that traveled from more than two states over to attend Emory, and I hear that is a substantial number of kids.

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Re: Emory vs. Fordham

Postby MrAnon » Mon May 16, 2011 6:43 pm

LRAP and IBR aren't going to last beyond a US government default

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gobucks101
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Re: Emory vs. Fordham

Postby gobucks101 » Mon May 16, 2011 6:49 pm

MrAnon wrote:Emory grads come from far and wide (California, northeast) to work in the Fulton County DAs office.

This is where the Emory argument breaks down. On the one hand people argue that its a national school, that it draws from the northeast, that it is worthy of moving around the country to attend. On the other hand, if you don't get biglaw, NO BIG DEAL, you can just go be DA in the Fulton County Prosecutors office.

That may be the dream of many students at Emory, but its a major disappointment for any that traveled from more than two states over to attend Emory, and I hear that is a substantial number of kids.


You seem like the person who believes a Crayola box has only black and white crayons. No where did I say NO BIG DEAL you can be a DA in Fulton County. DA's don't like to be backup options and they expect you to take clinics and classes that show interest. What I said was that for those intending to be an ADA, I don't think there are much better combinations of COL, prestige, salary and city life than down here. Your ignorance borderlines on offensiveness, constantly asserting that ADA's aren't real attorneys or ADA's are big law rejects. I'm top 1/3 in my class and all I want is to be an ADA. I'm not alone. And if you act this ignorant or arrogant when you go to law school, it is going to be a long 3 years. Trust me.

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bk1
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Re: Emory vs. Fordham

Postby bk1 » Mon May 16, 2011 6:50 pm

gobucks101 wrote:I agree with your bottom line about not paying sticker but not with what % of grads can service sticker price debt. Based on the data from your link, we know that 51% of the class of 2009 could service it at sticker price and go into private practice. For another 10% going government/PI, sticker price is irrelevant because of LRAP so that makes 61%. We don't know what part of that bottom 25% in private sector are making 30k and what percent are making 74k. Lets say somewhere between 61-65% can service the debt, based on those numbers.


I find that highly skeptical. With 30% of the class not working as full time lawyers, you are saying that of the remaining 70% who are, almost all of them (6-6.5 out of every 7) can service $200,000 worth of debt?

I mean it's possible, but it just seems unlikely.

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bk1
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Re: Emory vs. Fordham

Postby bk1 » Mon May 16, 2011 6:51 pm

MrAnon wrote:LRAP and IBR aren't going to last beyond a US government default


The world is ending in 5 days.

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gobucks101
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Re: Emory vs. Fordham

Postby gobucks101 » Mon May 16, 2011 6:59 pm

BK,
I'm just going off the link at top for salary info on LST for those numbers. LST says 51% are either Art. 3 clerks or making 75k+. People in government have loan forgiveness. And again, I don't advise anyone to go to Emory for sticker if their plan is private practice. I just wanted what I felt was accurate data for people who are weighing that decision.

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Re: Emory vs. Fordham

Postby spets » Mon May 16, 2011 7:02 pm

MrAnon wrote:LRAP and IBR aren't going to last beyond a US government default


Where have you been?! It's been a while since I've seen you post - I've missed your trolling :o

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bk1
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Re: Emory vs. Fordham

Postby bk1 » Mon May 16, 2011 7:04 pm

gobucks101 wrote:BK,
I'm just going off the link at top for salary info on LST for those numbers. LST says 51% are either Art. 3 clerks or making 75k+. People in government have loan forgiveness. And again, I don't advise anyone to go to Emory for sticker if their plan is private practice. I just wanted what I felt was accurate data for people who are weighing that decision.


I'm not disputing the math. The math is solid. It just seems incredulous. Part of the problem may be with the way LST aggregates the data so that it is overly optimistic (as explained by jenesaislaw here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 0#p4367854).

We're kind of arguing past each other at this point but I think we both firmly agree with the two take home points that are important to this thread:

1. Emory and Fordham aren't worth sticker.

2. Emory for NYC is generally a bad idea (especially when compared to Fordham).

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gobucks101
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Re: Emory vs. Fordham

Postby gobucks101 » Mon May 16, 2011 7:06 pm

Cheers
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FGCUguy123
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Re: Emory vs. Fordham

Postby FGCUguy123 » Mon May 16, 2011 7:09 pm

spets wrote:
MrAnon wrote:LRAP and IBR aren't going to last beyond a US government default


Where have you been?! It's been a while since I've seen you post - I've missed your trolling :o


+1

flexityflex86
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Re: Emory vs. Fordham

Postby flexityflex86 » Mon May 16, 2011 8:03 pm

I'd take Fordham.

Contrary to what others have said, Emory can and does get a lot of people back to NYC. If you place in the top 20% and want NYC, you'll get NYC. I like Emory more, because if you have low debt there and can get any 60k+ job out of there, you are golden bec. Atlanta is <50% COL of NYC - you can have a really sweet life.

But at sticker, I think I'd take Fordham. Fordham does place the hell out of NYC if you do well.

I agree Emory is not national - it is "more national." More people know about Emory. If you asked firms in NYC about Emory, they will know it and somewhat respect it, but if you told firms in ATL about Fordham, they wouldn't be as informed.

That said, the credentials of admitted students are about the same at both of these schools, and Fordham grads do have better prospects.

I think Fordham is TCR.

I would also pay sticker at Fordham over a full ride to Cardozo unless it came with a living stipend, but yes, I'd be very worried of going to law school if I was paying full price to the 30th ranked school.

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Re: Emory vs. Fordham

Postby FGCUguy123 » Tue May 17, 2011 3:15 am

flexityflex86 wrote:I'd take Fordham.

Contrary to what others have said, Emory can and does get a lot of people back to NYC. If you place in the top 20% and want NYC, you'll get NYC. I like Emory more, because if you have low debt there and can get any 60k+ job out of there, you are golden bec. Atlanta is <50% COL of NYC - you can have a really sweet life.

But at sticker, I think I'd take Fordham. Fordham does place the hell out of NYC if you do well.

I agree Emory is not national - it is "more national." More people know about Emory. If you asked firms in NYC about Emory, they will know it and somewhat respect it, but if you told firms in ATL about Fordham, they wouldn't be as informed.

That said, the credentials of admitted students are about the same at both of these schools, and Fordham grads do have better prospects.

I think Fordham is TCR.

I would also pay sticker at Fordham over a full ride to Cardozo unless it came with a living stipend, but yes, I'd be very worried of going to law school if I was paying full price to the 30th ranked school.

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Re: Emory vs. Fordham

Postby MrAnon » Tue May 17, 2011 1:49 pm

You seem like the person who believes a Crayola box has only black and white crayons. No where did I say NO BIG DEAL you can be a DA in Fulton County. DA's don't like to be backup options and they expect you to take clinics and classes that show interest. What I said was that for those intending to be an ADA, I don't think there are much better combinations of COL, prestige, salary and city life than down here. Your ignorance borderlines on offensiveness, constantly asserting that ADA's aren't real attorneys or ADA's are big law rejects. I'm top 1/3 in my class and all I want is to be an ADA. I'm not alone. And if you act this ignorant or arrogant when you go to law school, it is going to be a long 3 years. Trust me.


My posts weren't intended to serve as commentary on DA office applicants. But since you pointed that out, I can comment that I know ADAs who had median or below median grades, including in criminal law classes, struck out wildly at OCI, and went to DA offices in big cities after 3L interviews because they had relevant experience prior to law school or because they did things during law school that made going to the DAs office appear to be a reasonable next step following law school. The situation of every person going to a DAs office can be very different. For them, they went to law school intending to get high paying jobs. They ended up with something else and they appear to be happy with that.

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Re: Emory vs. Fordham

Postby FGCUguy123 » Tue May 17, 2011 8:28 pm

MrAnon wrote:
You seem like the person who believes a Crayola box has only black and white crayons. No where did I say NO BIG DEAL you can be a DA in Fulton County. DA's don't like to be backup options and they expect you to take clinics and classes that show interest. What I said was that for those intending to be an ADA, I don't think there are much better combinations of COL, prestige, salary and city life than down here. Your ignorance borderlines on offensiveness, constantly asserting that ADA's aren't real attorneys or ADA's are big law rejects. I'm top 1/3 in my class and all I want is to be an ADA. I'm not alone. And if you act this ignorant or arrogant when you go to law school, it is going to be a long 3 years. Trust me.


My posts weren't intended to serve as commentary on DA office applicants. But since you pointed that out, I can comment that I know ADAs who had median or below median grades, including in criminal law classes, struck out wildly at OCI, and went to DA offices in big cities after 3L interviews because they had relevant experience prior to law school or because they did things during law school that made going to the DAs office appear to be a reasonable next step following law school. The situation of every person going to a DAs office can be very different. For them, they went to law school intending to get high paying jobs. They ended up with something else and they appear to be happy with that.


OMG! :shock: Anon....that was kind of positive :)

MrAnon
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Re: Emory vs. Fordham

Postby MrAnon » Tue May 17, 2011 8:35 pm

I do feel that with any job outside of biglaw everything comes down to chemistry. Grades have very little to do with it. Thought I'd give a little hope to fledgling DAs.

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Re: Emory vs. Fordham

Postby FGCUguy123 » Tue May 17, 2011 8:49 pm

MrAnon wrote:I do feel that with any job outside of biglaw everything comes down to chemistry. Grades have very little to do with it. Thought I'd give a little hope to fledgling DAs.


Yeah. The problem is paying back an enormous loan with a DA salary. However, everyone keeps talking about these debt repayment plans. How do those generally work?

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Re: Emory vs. Fordham

Postby MrAnon » Tue May 17, 2011 9:12 pm

No clue. Not on one and never will be. I'm not joking or exaggerating when I say they will all one day end in a *poof* though. It will happen whenever the government has to implement austerity measures like Greece and Britain have done. Might take 6 years. It will be one of the first programs to go bye-bye.

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Re: Emory vs. Fordham

Postby flcath » Tue May 17, 2011 11:35 pm

MrAnon wrote:No clue. Not on one and never will be. I'm not joking or exaggerating when I say they will all one day end in a *poof* though. It will happen whenever the government has to implement austerity measures like Greece and Britain have done. Might take 6 years. It will be one of the first programs to go bye-bye.

Lol okay.

If America ever gets into dire financial straits we can simply take resources from some other nation by force. We'll just park a couple of our 11 aircraft carriers off their coast and help ourselves to their wealth.

It'll be like what cool kids do to small skinny beta guys in high school, except there'll be no higher authority to tell us to give France's lunch money back.

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Re: Emory vs. Fordham

Postby FGCUguy123 » Wed May 18, 2011 12:07 am

flcath wrote:
MrAnon wrote:No clue. Not on one and never will be. I'm not joking or exaggerating when I say they will all one day end in a *poof* though. It will happen whenever the government has to implement austerity measures like Greece and Britain have done. Might take 6 years. It will be one of the first programs to go bye-bye.



Man. I hope you're wrong. A lot of people are relying on those. But, to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if you are dead on. And btw, we can't say with certainty that, by the time we start stealing Frances lunch money, China isn't lowering our allowances to punish us.

flcath
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Re: Emory vs. Fordham

Postby flcath » Wed May 18, 2011 12:27 am

FGCUguy123 wrote:
flcath wrote:
MrAnon wrote:No clue. Not on one and never will be. I'm not joking or exaggerating when I say they will all one day end in a *poof* though. It will happen whenever the government has to implement austerity measures like Greece and Britain have done. Might take 6 years. It will be one of the first programs to go bye-bye.



Man. I hope you're wrong. A lot of people are relying on those. But, to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if you are dead on. And btw, we can't say with certainty that, by the time we start stealing Frances lunch money, China isn't lowering our allowances to punish us.

This is why we must strike preemptively, before it is too late.

As it now stands, China's got nothing on us but population size--an advantage that can be nuked away easily (ask their island neighbors to the east about that).

But if we give them time, soon they'll embrace capitalism and start to innovate, keeping their best minds at home and creating new and better inventions (not just cheap plastic shit like they do right now). They will be unstoppable... or, they'll be a dud like every other supposed "future third superpower" flavor-of-the-week. Again, ask Japan about that.

FGCUguy123
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Re: Emory vs. Fordham

Postby FGCUguy123 » Wed May 18, 2011 12:38 am

flcath wrote:
FGCUguy123 wrote:
flcath wrote:
MrAnon wrote:No clue. Not on one and never will be. I'm not joking or exaggerating when I say they will all one day end in a *poof* though. It will happen whenever the government has to implement austerity measures like Greece and Britain have done. Might take 6 years. It will be one of the first programs to go bye-bye.



Man. I hope you're wrong. A lot of people are relying on those. But, to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if you are dead on. And btw, we can't say with certainty that, by the time we start stealing Frances lunch money, China isn't lowering our allowances to punish us.

This is why we must strike preemptively, before it is too late.

As it now stands, China's got nothing on us but population size--an advantage that can be nuked away easily (ask their island neighbors to the east about that).

But if we give them time, soon they'll embrace capitalism and start to innovate, keeping their best minds at home and creating new and better inventions (not just cheap plastic shit like they do right now). They will be unstoppable... ,or they'll be a dud like every other supposed "future third superpower" flavor-of-the-week. Again, ask Japan about that.


Oooo....haha too soon.

BeenDidThat
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Re: Emory vs. Fordham

Postby BeenDidThat » Fri May 20, 2011 10:19 pm

flcath wrote:
MrAnon wrote:No clue. Not on one and never will be. I'm not joking or exaggerating when I say they will all one day end in a *poof* though. It will happen whenever the government has to implement austerity measures like Greece and Britain have done. Might take 6 years. It will be one of the first programs to go bye-bye.

Lol okay.

If America ever gets into dire financial straits we can simply take resources from some other nation by force. We'll just park a couple of our 11 aircraft carriers off their coast and help ourselves to their wealth.

It'll be like what cool kids do to small skinny beta guys in high school, except there'll be no higher authority to tell us to give France's lunch money back.


The kids who took lunch money at my high school ended up in prison or working at car washes. I hope you don't want the U.S. to go down that path.

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dresden doll
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Re: Emory vs. Fordham

Postby dresden doll » Fri May 20, 2011 11:15 pm

bigkahuna2020 wrote: But in the medical/biological sciences, business, certain social sciences and liberal arts, it has national rapport.


That could be the case, but it's irrelevant for OP's purposes. And I think that was what people were getting at with their 'lol, what national school?' posts.

The TCR is probably to retake. Absent a retake, Fordham.

FGCUguy123
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Re: Emory vs. Fordham

Postby FGCUguy123 » Sat May 21, 2011 12:21 pm

dresden doll wrote:
bigkahuna2020 wrote: But in the medical/biological sciences, business, certain social sciences and liberal arts, it has national rapport.


That could be the case, but it's irrelevant for OP's purposes. And I think that was what people were getting at with their 'lol, what national school?' posts.

The TCR is probably to retake. Absent a retake, Fordham.


Actually, it's not irrelevant. Especially if OP wants to work in a firm or private practice. If Princeton opened up a law school tomorrow, you wouldn't agree that there would be no lay prestige attached to that degree. Thats the point. Emory has that lay prestige. Not in 50 states, but far enough that extends past it's regionally in the South. I would call it semi-national. I wouldn't retake, you have good options.




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