BC (Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law (41K/year) EMOTIONAL SPIRAL

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alumniguy
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Re: BC (Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law (41K/year) EMOTIONAL SPIRAL

Postby alumniguy » Mon May 09, 2011 8:15 am

ahduth wrote:
alumniguy wrote:International business law doesn't really exist. International businesses utilize a number of firms to handle jurisdictional issues.


I'll agree with this generally speaking, outside of tax. Tax strategy at large corporations revolves around understanding how various regulatory regimes impact how, where and when they move their cash. These firms hire outside counsel in various jurisdictions to advise them on what to do. But international business law is very much practiced within the GC offices of these firms. It's their job.

That being said... do not go to Brooklyn Law School if you want to do this. I don't think that school is the route into a GC department.


Certainly not trying to provoke an argument here, but I am curious what you consider "international business law"? What is included in this vague description?

Large corporations have a multitude of internal lawyers - some doing transactional work, some doing compliance, etc. I still don't think any one person (other than the GC who is overseeing the entire legal/compliance department) is advising the corporation on every legal issue out there.

adt231
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Re: BC (Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law (41K/year) EMOTIONAL SPIRAL

Postby adt231 » Mon May 09, 2011 9:07 am

Try to talk with your parents about how much they are definitely able to contribute to your costs per year at BC and then let us know what the remaining sum is. Then expect tuition to rise 2-3k a year and take into account the compounding interest on whatever sum you have to borrow and then compare: BC at $XXX,XXX and Brooklyn for free.

I agree with much of what has been posted earlier, including the idea that BC for $125,000 or less wins. Once you get to 125-150ish it becomes less clear and could go either way. And over 150k for BC seems to point to going to Brooklyn for free. Yes, it is Brooklyn and clearly you could go somewhere better but getting a FREE JD from a school that can get you small law in NYC (which is where you want to be) is not a bad option by any means. If you HAVE to get Biglaw, then yes it is a bad option. But if you really want to simply be a lawyer and to be one in NYC, then it is not a bad option.

Assuming your parents were going to foot a 20k+ bill at Brooklyn each year, I'm in turn going to assume that they will do the same (plus a bit) and foot about a 25k a year at BC. That means that you are looking at about 125k in debt. I'd say go with BC in this case.

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ahduth
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Re: BC (Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law (41K/year) EMOTIONAL SPIRAL

Postby ahduth » Mon May 09, 2011 11:50 am

alumniguy wrote:
ahduth wrote:
alumniguy wrote:International business law doesn't really exist. International businesses utilize a number of firms to handle jurisdictional issues.


I'll agree with this generally speaking, outside of tax. Tax strategy at large corporations revolves around understanding how various regulatory regimes impact how, where and when they move their cash. These firms hire outside counsel in various jurisdictions to advise them on what to do. But international business law is very much practiced within the GC offices of these firms. It's their job.

That being said... do not go to Brooklyn Law School if you want to do this. I don't think that school is the route into a GC department.


Certainly not trying to provoke an argument here, but I am curious what you consider "international business law"? What is included in this vague description?

Large corporations have a multitude of internal lawyers - some doing transactional work, some doing compliance, etc. I still don't think any one person (other than the GC who is overseeing the entire legal/compliance department) is advising the corporation on every legal issue out there.


I'm thinking primarily tax strategy departments, like the people who make sure GE pays zero dollars to Uncle Sam while they make billions of USD in profits worldwide. Extending on that, attorneys at Big 4 firms that advise on transfer pricing strategy are also looking at tax issues that involve more than one national jurisdiction.

There's probably other areas too, but I'm certainly not proposing it's some large field. Companies need people who are able to understand cross-jurisdictional issues however, and I'd venture to call that "international business law." It's not really a field you go into, but some people end up dealing with it.

sdp259
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Re: BC (Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law (41K/year) EMOTIONAL SPIRAL

Postby sdp259 » Mon May 09, 2011 2:38 pm

First let me thank everyone. This is all really helpful.

So, I said international business because 1) I got my BA/MA in European/soviet economic history and am interested in working on economic development in the Balkan/ post-soviet states (also I'm Greek and Greece needs help you guys!). Also I mentioned it because I'm a finalist for the BLS "International Business Law Fellowship"; when I first heard about it, I was all "Whoa, this law exists? Awesome!". If it is a made-up field, then please forgive my ignorance. That being said, I am not bound to this interest (international/business). I am also perfectly fine with a non-biglaw job. My main concern at this point in the game is doing well my first year. Also, I am a 0L and have no idea what I am talking about 80% of the time so everyone please just take what I saw with a grain of salt. Thanks!


Tuition/debt: I am very fortunate and my parents want to pay for the whole degree. We spoke about it over the weekend and they really would hate it if I had to take out loans. However, it's still a lot of money, and it's coming out of my parents' pocket (read: guilt). They are mainly concerned with the kinds of opportunities BC vs BK would afford me. If one significantly outweighs the other, then it's worth the cashola. I am waiting on the Dean to call me soon with financial/merit aid information. Also BLS is hemorrhaging scholarship money to ppl right now and it's kind of disconcerting.

K Guys! Does this change anything at all?

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Attorney
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Re: BC (Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law (41K/year) EMOTIONAL SPIRAL

Postby Attorney » Mon May 09, 2011 2:53 pm

sdp259 wrote:Tuition/debt: I am very fortunate and my parents want to pay for the whole degree. We spoke about it over the weekend and they really would hate it if I had to take out loans.

Jerk.


sdp259 wrote:K Guys! Does this change anything at all?

There is no longer a question here.


sdp259 wrote:I'm a finalist for the BLS "International Business Law Fellowship"; when I first heard about it, I was all "Whoa, this law exists? Awesome!". If it is a made-up field, then please forgive my ignorance.

Can we forgive your ignorance? Yes! Hehe.
Can we ignore Brooklyn's ignorance?

Hmmmmm.

sdp259
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Re: BC (Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law (41K/year) EMOTIONAL SPIRAL

Postby sdp259 » Mon May 09, 2011 3:00 pm

Attorney wrote:
sdp259 wrote:Tuition/debt: I am very fortunate and my parents want to pay for the whole degree. We spoke about it over the weekend and they really would hate it if I had to take out loans.

Jerk.


sdp259 wrote:K Guys! Does this change anything at all?

There is no longer a question here.


sdp259 wrote:I'm a finalist for the BLS "International Business Law Fellowship"; when I first heard about it, I was all "Whoa, this law exists? Awesome!". If it is a made-up field, then please forgive my ignorance.

Can we forgive your ignorance? Yes! Hehe.
Can we ignore Brooklyn's ignorance? Hmmmmm..



Haha ok so then definitely BC? And: the fact that there has been an entire discussion about how international business law doesn't actually exist makes me feel like 1) BLS played me 2) BLS is not okay.

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paratactical
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Re: BC (Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law (41K/year) EMOTIONAL SPIRAL

Postby paratactical » Mon May 09, 2011 3:04 pm

BLS is a kinda shady school known for section stacking. If your parents really would rather shell out money and give you more and better job prospects, it's BC all the way.

alumniguy
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Re: BC (Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law (41K/year) EMOTIONAL SPIRAL

Postby alumniguy » Mon May 09, 2011 3:11 pm

sdp259 wrote:Haha ok so then definitely BC? And: the fact that there has been an entire discussion about how international business law doesn't actually exist makes me feel like 1) BLS played me 2) BLS is not okay.


Clarification. International Business Law exists as an academic concept. The courses will probably focus on case law (like most all law school courses) and violations of international treaties/regulations. Law schools do a pretty poor job of actually preparing students to be lawyers.

In reality though, there are very few, if any, actual "international business law" jobs. Perhaps working as a tax lawyer at a major firm will allow you to see the cross jurisdictional issues, but at that point you're really just going to be a tax lawyer, who may develop a specialty in international issues. What is far more likely as a junior associate is that you will be exposed to internationalism in so far as your firm's clients are international and are engaged in cross jurisdictional deals/cases.

crit_racer
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Re: BC (Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law (41K/year) EMOTIONAL SPIRAL

Postby crit_racer » Mon May 09, 2011 3:11 pm

You are fortunate to have such supportive parents.

Make them proud and do well at Boston College.

sdp259
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Re: BC (Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law (41K/year) EMOTIONAL SPIRAL

Postby sdp259 » Mon May 09, 2011 3:19 pm

crit_racer wrote:You are fortunate to have such supportive parents.

Make them proud and do well at Boston College.


I love this post!

sdp259
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Re: BC (Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law (41K/year) EMOTIONAL SPIRAL

Postby sdp259 » Mon May 09, 2011 3:20 pm

paratactical wrote:BLS is a kinda shady school known for section stacking. If your parents really would rather shell out money and give you more and better job prospects, it's BC all the way.



Ok great this is what I was thinking. Thanks for the post!

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Robespierre
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Re: BC (Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law (41K/year) EMOTIONAL SPIRAL

Postby Robespierre » Mon May 09, 2011 3:23 pm

BC is clearly the better option overall. It's placing 33.5% of its grads in Biglaw according to the latest NLJ figures; BLS' percentage is not known (DON'T trust the school's own figures) but is probably something like 5%. A much smaller percentage of BCers than BLSers are "unemployed," "seeking another degree" or "unknown status" -- 7% vs. 18% if I'm reading the aliarrow research correctly.

But you have to discount that slightly because you want to work in NYC, and some of BC's placement might dissipates when you leave Boston.

So the question becomes, is the better BC placement worth the increased cost? To answer this you have to crunch the numbers and determine the exact cost of attendance for the two schools, and determine the difference in cost between the two. You need to use EXACT figures for family contribution and EXACT projections based on the different outcomes under the BLS scholarship stips. You've only spoken in general terms about money in this thread.

For what it's worth, I think BLS is being undervalued a bit in this thread. Sure, in the current environment it could leave you doing scut legal work upon graduation. But that's true of all non-T14s in the current environment. You just have to find a niche and network hard. Generations of BLS grads have done it and so can you. Further, it's important that we're not comparing 100K debt to 200K debt here. We're comparing X debt for BC to ZERO debt for BLS (assuming retention of the scholly). There's a lot to be said for financial freedom.

sdp259
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Re: BC (Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law (41K/year) EMOTIONAL SPIRAL

Postby sdp259 » Mon May 09, 2011 3:58 pm

Robespierre wrote:BC is clearly the better option overall. It's placing 33.5% of its grads in Biglaw according to the latest NLJ figures; BLS' percentage is not known (DON'T trust the school's own figures) but is probably something like 5%. A much smaller percentage of BCers than BLSers are "unemployed," "seeking another degree" or "unknown status" -- 7% vs. 18% if I'm reading the aliarrow research correctly.

But you have to discount that slightly because you want to work in NYC, and some of BC's placement might dissipates when you leave Boston.

So the question becomes, is the better BC placement worth the increased cost? To answer this you have to crunch the numbers and determine the exact cost of attendance for the two schools, and determine the difference in cost between the two. You need to use EXACT figures for family contribution and EXACT projections based on the different outcomes under the BLS scholarship stips. You've only spoken in general terms about money in this thread.

For what it's worth, I think BLS is being undervalued a bit in this thread. Sure, in the current environment it could leave you doing scut legal work upon graduation. But that's true of all non-T14s in the current environment. You just have to find a niche and network hard. Generations of BLS grads have done it and so can you. Further, it's important that we're not comparing 100K debt to 200K debt here. We're comparing X debt for BC to ZERO debt for BLS (assuming retention of the scholly). There's a lot to be said for financial freedom.


Assuming I retain the scholarship, CoA at BLS is going to be somewhere around 80K for the three years, and that's low-balling the figure. COL in BK Heights is going to be crazy high; I've lived in NYC for 7 years and can guesstimate pretty well. I think CoA at BC is going to be something like 180K/200K. 120K for tuition, plus an extra 50K for COL, plus books? I am very frugal with my parents' money (except with education, apparently...) and will be putting myself on a tight budget like any responsible person would in any case. My parents are paying for my tuition, so I won't necessarily be in debt, but I have to make sure I make my time at BC worth their money, you know?

I know BLS is being undervalued. I also know that I don't want to go to school in the city again for the 3rd time. It's very distracting, expensive, and honestly I don't think I'd be happy (or as happy as one could be) at BLS. But I'm still waiting to hear from the dean at BC about the aid situation. I'm going to seriously think about this and then I'll let everyone know the outcome ( because everyone is dying to know, right? :))

Anyway thanks again to everyone who contributed an opinion! Sometimes it's hard to hear the truth--not gonna lie. But at the end of the day it's the best kind of advice. Otherwise, what's the point? Am I right?

sdp259
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Re: BC (Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law (41K/year) EMOTIONAL SPIRAL

Postby sdp259 » Tue May 10, 2011 3:47 pm

Ok so I just got a very generous scholarship from BC. Definitely going there! Thanks everyone for his/her input. Wish you all the best!!!

bartleby
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Re: BC (Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law (41K/year) EMOTIONAL SPIRAL

Postby bartleby » Tue May 10, 2011 5:32 pm

sdp259 wrote:Ok so I just got a very generous scholarship from BC. Definitely going there! Thanks everyone for his/her input. Wish you all the best!!!


awesome, congrats. haha.

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zonto
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Re: BC (Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law (41K/year) EMOTIONAL SPIRAL

Postby zonto » Tue May 10, 2011 6:52 pm

How much in scholly?

adt231
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Re: BC (Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law (41K/year) EMOTIONAL SPIRAL

Postby adt231 » Tue May 10, 2011 11:41 pm

zonto wrote:How much in scholly?


Congrats! But, I am curious about this as well.

whymeohgodno
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Re: BC (Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law (41K/year) EMOTIONAL SPIRAL

Postby whymeohgodno » Tue May 10, 2011 11:44 pm

grats

sdp259
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Re: BC (Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law (41K/year) EMOTIONAL SPIRAL

Postby sdp259 » Wed May 11, 2011 7:35 pm

75K-- I think that is more than fair.

sdp259
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Re: BC (Sticker) vs. Brooklyn Law (41K/year) EMOTIONAL SPIRAL

Postby sdp259 » Wed May 11, 2011 7:47 pm

I love BC. How amazing.




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