Seton Hall?

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whymeohgodno
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Re: Seton Hall?

Postby whymeohgodno » Thu May 05, 2011 11:18 pm

IHaveLawyers wrote:
Bimodals salaries are very real. Your friends are smoking the crack pipe if they think plenty of 80k jobs are out there. In NY especially, if you miss the biglaw boat there are very few/no firms that pay between 80-100k. You will most likely end up doing doc review like 50%+ of your class at Seton Hall.


Lol, people like you just can't look past the little things.

Where are you stats coming from friend? Do you have access to some documents that prove your point yet you are not allowed to reveal them ala bin Laden photos?

What I was asking in this thread was simple, yet you have manged to make this into a messy name-calling venture. Grow the fuck up. I am not trying to defend Seton Hall or speak in favor of it, I am just trying to collect information and see why it has such a bad rap when other schools place similarly to Seton Hall. There was only one person out of all of you that made a meaningful contribution to this thread, the rest of you just run your month with opinions you deem to be fact.


http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/legal_ ... -2008.html

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Grizz
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Re: Seton Hall?

Postby Grizz » Thu May 05, 2011 11:21 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
IHaveLawyers wrote:
Bimodals salaries are very real. Your friends are smoking the crack pipe if they think plenty of 80k jobs are out there. In NY especially, if you miss the biglaw boat there are very few/no firms that pay between 80-100k. You will most likely end up doing doc review like 50%+ of your class at Seton Hall.


Lol, people like you just can't look past the little things.

Where are you stats coming from friend? Do you have access to some documents that prove your point yet you are not allowed to reveal them ala bin Laden photos?

What I was asking in this thread was simple, yet you have manged to make this into a messy name-calling venture. Grow the fuck up. I am not trying to defend Seton Hall or speak in favor of it, I am just trying to collect information and see why it has such a bad rap when other schools place similarly to Seton Hall. There was only one person out of all of you that made a meaningful contribution to this thread, the rest of you just run your month with opinions you deem to be fact.



http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/legal_ ... -2008.html


Also keep in mind the first hump is probably a LOT larger due to reporting imbalance. People who don't have shit jobs are more likely to report.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Seton Hall?

Postby whymeohgodno » Thu May 05, 2011 11:22 pm

rad law wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
IHaveLawyers wrote:
Bimodals salaries are very real. Your friends are smoking the crack pipe if they think plenty of 80k jobs are out there. In NY especially, if you miss the biglaw boat there are very few/no firms that pay between 80-100k. You will most likely end up doing doc review like 50%+ of your class at Seton Hall.


Lol, people like you just can't look past the little things.

Where are you stats coming from friend? Do you have access to some documents that prove your point yet you are not allowed to reveal them ala bin Laden photos?

What I was asking in this thread was simple, yet you have manged to make this into a messy name-calling venture. Grow the fuck up. I am not trying to defend Seton Hall or speak in favor of it, I am just trying to collect information and see why it has such a bad rap when other schools place similarly to Seton Hall. There was only one person out of all of you that made a meaningful contribution to this thread, the rest of you just run your month with opinions you deem to be fact.



http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/legal_ ... -2008.html


Also keep in mind the first hump is probably a LOT larger due to reporting imbalance. People who don't have shit jobs are more likely to report.


+1. On lawschooltransparency, all those "unreported -- private sector" are most likely making 40-50k.

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IHaveLawyers
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Re: Seton Hall?

Postby IHaveLawyers » Thu May 05, 2011 11:24 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
IHaveLawyers wrote:
Bimodals salaries are very real. Your friends are smoking the crack pipe if they think plenty of 80k jobs are out there. In NY especially, if you miss the biglaw boat there are very few/no firms that pay between 80-100k. You will most likely end up doing doc review like 50%+ of your class at Seton Hall.


Lol, people like you just can't look past the little things.

Where are you stats coming from friend? Do you have access to some documents that prove your point yet you are not allowed to reveal them ala bin Laden photos?

What I was asking in this thread was simple, yet you have manged to make this into a messy name-calling venture. Grow the fuck up. I am not trying to defend Seton Hall or speak in favor of it, I am just trying to collect information and see why it has such a bad rap when other schools place similarly to Seton Hall. There was only one person out of all of you that made a meaningful contribution to this thread, the rest of you just run your month with opinions you deem to be fact.


http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/legal_ ... -2008.html


I understand this. I have already looked into this. However, this represents over 177 law schools, and surly you don't think that it would look the same if the sample size with just the top 50, top 80, or top 100. Schools like Cooley, St. Mary's, and Nova are counted in these stats as well and they produced thousands of lawyers each year.

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Grizz
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Re: Seton Hall?

Postby Grizz » Thu May 05, 2011 11:25 pm

Also keep in mind that a lot of those jobs paying $80k-$100k are "biglaw" jobs in smaller markets.

Ex. Tampa big firms pay $90k-$100k, Birmingham pays similarly.

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IHaveLawyers
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Re: Seton Hall?

Postby IHaveLawyers » Thu May 05, 2011 11:26 pm

rad law wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
IHaveLawyers wrote:
Bimodals salaries are very real. Your friends are smoking the crack pipe if they think plenty of 80k jobs are out there. In NY especially, if you miss the biglaw boat there are very few/no firms that pay between 80-100k. You will most likely end up doing doc review like 50%+ of your class at Seton Hall.


Lol, people like you just can't look past the little things.

Where are you stats coming from friend? Do you have access to some documents that prove your point yet you are not allowed to reveal them ala bin Laden photos?

What I was asking in this thread was simple, yet you have manged to make this into a messy name-calling venture. Grow the fuck up. I am not trying to defend Seton Hall or speak in favor of it, I am just trying to collect information and see why it has such a bad rap when other schools place similarly to Seton Hall. There was only one person out of all of you that made a meaningful contribution to this thread, the rest of you just run your month with opinions you deem to be fact.



http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/legal_ ... -2008.html


Also keep in mind the first hump is probably a LOT larger due to reporting imbalance. People who don't have shit jobs are more likely to report.


Maybe, but who is to say that it's law school is not like all the other consumer products where only the ones that feel a little ripped off are bitching.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Seton Hall?

Postby whymeohgodno » Thu May 05, 2011 11:27 pm

There are pretty much NO 80-100k jobs in Seton Hall's market. Those jobs exist for schools some schools...like UT, WUSTL, even Vandy. But Seton Hall? Nope.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Seton Hall?

Postby whymeohgodno » Thu May 05, 2011 11:28 pm

If you go to Seton Hall, chances are around 90% that you will feel ripped off.

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IHaveLawyers
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Re: Seton Hall?

Postby IHaveLawyers » Thu May 05, 2011 11:28 pm

rad law wrote:Also keep in mind that a lot of those jobs paying $80k-$100k are "biglaw" jobs in smaller markets.

Ex. Tampa big firms pay $90k-$100k, Birmingham pays similarly.


I think you might be wrong about that. I think the study was only talking about NLJ 250 firms. I don't know if those firms in Tampa or Birmingham are NLJ 250 firms.

flcath
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Re: Seton Hall?

Postby flcath » Thu May 05, 2011 11:31 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
IHaveLawyers wrote:
Bimodals salaries are very real. Your friends are smoking the crack pipe if they think plenty of 80k jobs are out there. In NY especially, if you miss the biglaw boat there are very few/no firms that pay between 80-100k. You will most likely end up doing doc review like 50%+ of your class at Seton Hall.


Lol, people like you just can't look past the little things.

Where are you stats coming from friend? Do you have access to some documents that prove your point yet you are not allowed to reveal them ala bin Laden photos?

What I was asking in this thread was simple, yet you have manged to make this into a messy name-calling venture. Grow the fuck up. I am not trying to defend Seton Hall or speak in favor of it, I am just trying to collect information and see why it has such a bad rap when other schools place similarly to Seton Hall. There was only one person out of all of you that made a meaningful contribution to this thread, the rest of you just run your month with opinions you deem to be fact.


http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/legal_ ... -2008.html

This was a highly relevant factual assertion (with citation) that completely proved exactly what was said in the first post. You are kind of getting pwned in this thread.

As to why Seton Hall and Hofstra and Touro catch more flack on TLS than other similar-caliber shitholes, I attribute it to the northeastern bias of TLS posters. Also, NYC kills a lot of dreams, and many of the scam bloggers went to NYC-area schools.

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Grizz
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Re: Seton Hall?

Postby Grizz » Thu May 05, 2011 11:32 pm

IHaveLawyers wrote:
rad law wrote:Also keep in mind that a lot of those jobs paying $80k-$100k are "biglaw" jobs in smaller markets.

Ex. Tampa big firms pay $90k-$100k, Birmingham pays similarly.


I think you might be wrong about that. I think the study was only talking about NLJ 250 firms. I don't know if those firms in Tampa or Birmingham are NLJ 250 firms.


Some are, some aren't, but it doesn't matter, that bimodal graph looks at all reported salaries. The point remains, that there is pretty much "big law" and everything else. Also keep in mind that these smaller firms that still pay good money aren't that common in your area. See my above post.

And I'm not wrong about that. I know quite a bit about both those markets.

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IHaveLawyers
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Re: Seton Hall?

Postby IHaveLawyers » Thu May 05, 2011 11:35 pm

flcath wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
IHaveLawyers wrote:
Bimodals salaries are very real. Your friends are smoking the crack pipe if they think plenty of 80k jobs are out there. In NY especially, if you miss the biglaw boat there are very few/no firms that pay between 80-100k. You will most likely end up doing doc review like 50%+ of your class at Seton Hall.


Lol, people like you just can't look past the little things.

Where are you stats coming from friend? Do you have access to some documents that prove your point yet you are not allowed to reveal them ala bin Laden photos?

What I was asking in this thread was simple, yet you have manged to make this into a messy name-calling venture. Grow the fuck up. I am not trying to defend Seton Hall or speak in favor of it, I am just trying to collect information and see why it has such a bad rap when other schools place similarly to Seton Hall. There was only one person out of all of you that made a meaningful contribution to this thread, the rest of you just run your month with opinions you deem to be fact.


http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/legal_ ... -2008.html

This was a highly relevant factual assertion (with citation) that completely proved exactly what was said in the first post. You are kind of getting pwned in this thread.

As to why Seton Hall and Hofstra and Touro catch more flack on TLS than other similar-caliber shitholes, I attribute it to the northeastern bias of TLS posters. Also, NYC kills a lot of dreams, and many of the scam bloggers went to NYC-area schools.


I don't think I am getting killed, as you say. This is not about dissing anyone. If you read my opening post, it is about educating my self. Again, you post offers nothing, so I do not know why you insist on posting if you have nothing meaningful to say but feel running your mouth.

I think what I said about that employment data is relevant, how many unranked school are getting factored into that data?

whymeohgodno
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Re: Seton Hall?

Postby whymeohgodno » Thu May 05, 2011 11:40 pm

You keep posting about rankings etc. Seton Hall's rankings mean shit.

--LinkRemoved--

Look and weep. All those unreported salaries are pretty much shitlaw in the 40-50k range. Either that or part time jobs flipping burgers.

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IHaveLawyers
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Re: Seton Hall?

Postby IHaveLawyers » Thu May 05, 2011 11:43 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:You keep posting about rankings etc. Seton Hall's rankings mean shit.

--LinkRemoved--

Look and weep. All those unreported salaries are pretty much shitlaw in the 40-50k range. Either that or part time jobs flipping burgers.


I mentioned rank maybe once, or twice. Also, don't you think it would be relevant to see 2010 data and not 2009? http://law.shu.edu/publications/upload/ ... -facts.pdf

Again, you people are thinking that I am ting to fend for Seton Hall or talk positively about it. I am trying to understand why it has a worse rep than schools who have similar numbers. None of you are answers these question. The guy that mentions something about a northern bias is total B.S. I think there are enough of people on here from all across America.
Last edited by IHaveLawyers on Thu May 05, 2011 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

scammedhard
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Re: Seton Hall?

Postby scammedhard » Thu May 05, 2011 11:44 pm

IHaveLawyers wrote:I was recently admitted to the school with a 20K scholarship and have been researching the school.

Any insight would be helpful, but please don't get into irrelevant arguments or just bash the school without factual data. Thanks.

The cost of attendance for Seton Hall is probably around 70K per year. 70-20=50; 50*3=150K. I don't think 150K from Seton Hall is justifiable.

Also, consider that Seton Hall is in the New Jersey/New York lawyer market. It is a hyper-saturated market with tons of schools, and Seton Hall is close to the bottom of the barrel.

About factual data, I would tell you that these days there is very little factual data about law schools in general. It is all very polluted. You should not believe the data provided by Seton Hall. I am sure it is a bunch of fantasies. But if people from top schools are struggling to find jobs, you can imagine how the situation is for Seton Hall.

Conclusion: Too much of a risk (150K) for the potential reward.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Seton Hall?

Postby whymeohgodno » Thu May 05, 2011 11:45 pm

IHaveLawyers wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:You keep posting about rankings etc. Seton Hall's rankings mean shit.

--LinkRemoved--

Look and weep. All those unreported salaries are pretty much shitlaw in the 40-50k range. Either that or part time jobs flipping burgers.


I mentioned rank maybe once, or twice. Also, don't you think it would be relevant to see 2010 data and not 2009?


Why? 2010 was worse off for almost all schools. Stop acting delusional.

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Grizz
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Re: Seton Hall?

Postby Grizz » Thu May 05, 2011 11:46 pm

IHaveLawyers wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:You keep posting about rankings etc. Seton Hall's rankings mean shit.

--LinkRemoved--

Look and weep. All those unreported salaries are pretty much shitlaw in the 40-50k range. Either that or part time jobs flipping burgers.


I mentioned rank maybe once, or twice. Also, don't you think it would be relevant to see 2010 data and not 2009?


2009 was better than 2010

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Grizz
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Re: Seton Hall?

Postby Grizz » Thu May 05, 2011 11:47 pm

IHaveLawyers wrote:Why it has a worse rep than schools who have similar numbers.


Low on the totem pole in one of the most saturated markets.

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IHaveLawyers
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Re: Seton Hall?

Postby IHaveLawyers » Thu May 05, 2011 11:48 pm

scammedhard wrote:
IHaveLawyers wrote:I was recently admitted to the school with a 20K scholarship and have been researching the school.

Any insight would be helpful, but please don't get into irrelevant arguments or just bash the school without factual data. Thanks.

The cost of attendance for Seton Hall is probably around 70K per year. 70-20=50; 50*3=150K. I don't think 150K from Seton Hall is justifiable.

Also, consider that Seton Hall is in the New Jersey/New York lawyer market. It is a hyper-saturated market with tons of schools, and Seton Hall is close to the bottom of the barrel.

About factual data, I would tell you that these days there is very little factual data about law schools in general. It is all very polluted. You should not believe the data provided by Seton Hall. I am sure it is a bunch of fantasies. But if people from top schools are struggling to find jobs, you can imagine how the situation is for Seton Hall.

Conclusion: Too much of a risk (150K) for the potential reward.


Thank you for posting something meaningful! I agree that 150k is a lot of money for Seton Hall, but at what point is it justifiable? Full ride? Close to full ride?

whymeohgodno
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Re: Seton Hall?

Postby whymeohgodno » Thu May 05, 2011 11:49 pm

rad law wrote:
IHaveLawyers wrote:Why it has a worse rep than schools who have similar numbers.


Low on the totem pole in one of the most saturated markets.


This. NY is one of the most saturated markets.

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Grizz
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Re: Seton Hall?

Postby Grizz » Thu May 05, 2011 11:53 pm

IHaveLawyers wrote:Thank you for posting something meaningful! I agree that 150k is a lot of money for Seton Hall, but at what point is it justifiable? Full ride? Close to full ride?


Close to full ride (guaranteed), considering cost of living will run you $13k x 3 = $39k, not counting summers. Even being employed is no guarantee.

scammedhard
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Re: Seton Hall?

Postby scammedhard » Thu May 05, 2011 11:55 pm

IHaveLawyers wrote:Thank you for posting something meaningful! I agree that 150k is a lot of money for Seton Hall, but at what point is it justifiable? Full ride? Close to full ride?

I'd say close to full ride because the cost of living is so high.

This is the whole freaking problem with not having decent, accurate data regarding law schools. It is just so hard to make an informed decision. I don't really know what would be right price for Seton Hall, but my gut feeling is that 150K is way too high.

DAS10
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Re: Seton Hall?

Postby DAS10 » Fri May 06, 2011 12:27 am

I was also admitted to Seton Hall with a pretty solid scholarship (35k/yr), top 50% requirement (~3.0), and at first I was totally opposed to attending (my other option was Cardozo at sticker), but after researching the schools, I was more equivocal and I think I might be able to give kind of a balanced view of Seton Hall.

- Career Prospects: I agree with previous posts that you basically have to be at the top 10% to get a decent job. And even still, you're most likely to end up working in NJ. So, from an investment perspective, definitely don't attend at sticker or if you think that you won't be able to renew your merit scholarship.
-- Also, I'll add as a side note that they have a strict grade-point cutoff for OCI. Some schools have flexibility in grades (i.e. they sometimes have a lottery for some positions to help students at or below the median, or they have guidelines to help balance career prospects, but they are stricter about this at Seton Hall -- though not to say that other schools are good at this).

- Merit Scholarships: I had not heard that they put students with merit scholarships in the same section, so I can't comment on that. But I did hear that about 70% of students keep their scholarships (from admissions, so take that with a grain of salt). Also, information on their curve can be found at: http://law.shu.edu/Students/academics/e ... Curves.cfm

- Legal Education: From the research I did, the same percentage of professors at Seton Hall attended the same universities (60% from Havard, Yale, Columbia or NYU) as attended other schools I looked into (mainly Cardozo), which may speak to the experience of faculty and legal education, etc. Also, about 70% of their classes are taught by full-time faculty (v. adjuncts), which is higher than at other schools. They also have a lower student:faculty ratio than other similarly placed schools.

- Law Review: Seton Hall only has 4 journals, which is fewer than at other similarly competitive schools, and also means that it's harder to get on to (1% grade on and the other seats are filled with grades/writing competition. Total of 30 seats on LR). The school also has fewer clinical programs and are primarily based in Newark, so not as helpful for networking as one might hope.

I hope that this helps give you some prospective on Seton Hall and helps you make your decision. Best of luck!

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IHaveLawyers
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Re: Seton Hall?

Postby IHaveLawyers » Fri May 06, 2011 12:42 am

DAS10 wrote:I was also admitted to Seton Hall with a pretty solid scholarship (35k/yr), top 50% requirement (~3.0), and at first I was totally opposed to attending (my other option was Cardozo at sticker), but after researching the schools, I was more equivocal and I think I might be able to give kind of a balanced view of Seton Hall.

- Career Prospects: I agree with previous posts that you basically have to be at the top 10% to get a decent job. And even still, you're most likely to end up working in NJ. So, from an investment perspective, definitely don't attend at sticker or if you think that you won't be able to renew your merit scholarship.
-- Also, I'll add as a side note that they have a strict grade-point cutoff for OCI. Some schools have flexibility in grades (i.e. they sometimes have a lottery for some positions to help students at or below the median, or they have guidelines to help balance career prospects, but they are stricter about this at Seton Hall -- though not to say that other schools are good at this).

- Merit Scholarships: I had not heard that they put students with merit scholarships in the same section, so I can't comment on that. But I did hear that about 70% of students keep their scholarships (from admissions, so take that with a grain of salt). Also, information on their curve can be found at: http://law.shu.edu/Students/academics/e ... Curves.cfm

- Legal Education: From the research I did, the same percentage of professors at Seton Hall attended the same universities (60% from Havard, Yale, Columbia or NYU) as attended other schools I looked into (mainly Cardozo), which may speak to the experience of faculty and legal education, etc. Also, about 70% of their classes are taught by full-time faculty (v. adjuncts), which is higher than at other schools. They also have a lower student:faculty ratio than other similarly placed schools.

- Law Review: Seton Hall only has 4 journals, which is fewer than at other similarly competitive schools, and also means that it's harder to get on to (1% grade on and the other seats are filled with grades/writing competition. Total of 30 seats on LR). The school also has fewer clinical programs and are primarily based in Newark, so not as helpful for networking as one might hope.

I hope that this helps give you some prospective on Seton Hall and helps you make your decision. Best of luck!


Excellent information in this post. Thank you so much!

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Grizz
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Re: Seton Hall?

Postby Grizz » Fri May 06, 2011 12:46 am

DAS10 wrote:I was also admitted to Seton Hall with a pretty solid scholarship (35k/yr), top 50% requirement (~3.0),


As long as you're cool with dropping out if you lose your money, this isn't so bad.




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