Am I an idiot...

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Should I go to CLS?

Yes, why is this even a question?
75
86%
No, WUSTL is the best bet based on the circumstances
12
14%
 
Total votes: 87

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geoduck
Posts: 890
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Re: Am I an idiot...

Postby geoduck » Wed May 04, 2011 7:32 pm

jman77 wrote:Yup, no doubt I'm set on working as an attorney. I am leaving behind a pretty good job to go to law school because I know it's my calling. Also, my current job has me collaborating extensively with our Legal Counsel team, so I know what I would be getting myself into, although I will concede that my experience will probably not be a good gauge for what my life would be like if I went into BigLaw.

After factoring in savings and scholarships from both schools, I'm looking at around 150K debt coming out of CLS and 0-10K debt coming out of WUSTL.


You don't want big law and you're talking about a difference of 10k for #18 vs 150k for #4? You would be a complete blithering idiot to go to Columbia.

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bk1
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Re: Am I an idiot...

Postby bk1 » Wed May 04, 2011 7:33 pm

jman77 wrote:Yup, no doubt I'm set on working as an attorney. I am leaving behind a pretty good job to go to law school because I know it's my calling. Also, my current job has me collaborating extensively with our Legal Counsel team, so I know what I would be getting myself into, although I will concede that my experience will probably not be a good gauge for what my life would be like if I went into BigLaw.

After factoring in savings and scholarships from both schools, I'm looking at around 150K debt coming out of CLS and 0-10K debt coming out of WUSTL.


I have no idea about your situation but I thought I'd throw this out there:

Could you spend a couple more years at your current job, save up some money, become a citizen, and then reapply? It does mean postponing law school but it will be a lot less risky and you won't have to get private loans or worry about getting an H1B after law school.

jman77
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Re: Am I an idiot...

Postby jman77 » Wed May 04, 2011 7:39 pm

geoduck wrote:
jman77 wrote:Yup, no doubt I'm set on working as an attorney. I am leaving behind a pretty good job to go to law school because I know it's my calling. Also, my current job has me collaborating extensively with our Legal Counsel team, so I know what I would be getting myself into, although I will concede that my experience will probably not be a good gauge for what my life would be like if I went into BigLaw.

After factoring in savings and scholarships from both schools, I'm looking at around 150K debt coming out of CLS and 0-10K debt coming out of WUSTL.


You don't want big law and you're talking about a difference of 10k for #18 vs 150k for #4? You would be a complete blithering idiot to go to Columbia.


I don't think I've ever indicated that I don't want BigLaw; what I did state previously that the consensus on this and other forums appears to be that most people don't last more then 3-5 years in BigLaw.

I think what the decision really boils down to for me is whether the "safety" represented by graduating from WUSTL with close to no debt is sufficient reason to forego the opportunities associated with graduating from CLS, considering the circumstances.
Last edited by jman77 on Wed May 04, 2011 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

deadhipsters
Posts: 260
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Re: Am I an idiot...

Postby deadhipsters » Wed May 04, 2011 7:41 pm

Ok, well what are your career goals? Because it was my impression that you were adverse to biglaw as well.

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geoduck
Posts: 890
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Re: Am I an idiot...

Postby geoduck » Wed May 04, 2011 7:44 pm

jman77 wrote:
geoduck wrote:
jman77 wrote:Yup, no doubt I'm set on working as an attorney. I am leaving behind a pretty good job to go to law school because I know it's my calling. Also, my current job has me collaborating extensively with our Legal Counsel team, so I know what I would be getting myself into, although I will concede that my experience will probably not be a good gauge for what my life would be like if I went into BigLaw.

After factoring in savings and scholarships from both schools, I'm looking at around 150K debt coming out of CLS and 0-10K debt coming out of WUSTL.


You don't want big law and you're talking about a difference of 10k for #18 vs 150k for #4? You would be a complete blithering idiot to go to Columbia.


I don't think I've ever indicated that I don't want BigLaw; what I did state previously that the consensus on this and other forums appears to be that most people don't last more then 3-5 years in BigLaw.


In that case... what are you getting on interest rates for the private loans? Would they let you wait till you finished school to start paying or would you be having to make small payments while in school? The interest rate is particularly important. WUSTL doesn't place nearly as much in biglaw as CLS, obviously, but it still does place. Since the public interest failsafes for T-14 debt repayment are out the window for you, this is an entirely different game. You aren't going to pay off that kind of debt in three years, that's for sure. Especially if the interest rates are higher than the 6-7% we're all used to. That $150k can turn into $200k or more really quickly.

flcath
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Am I an idiot...

Postby flcath » Wed May 04, 2011 7:44 pm

Bear in mind while few people stay past 3-5 years in say, the V50 firm where you'll start out (coming from Columbia), they don't all go to work for PD offices or start solos or kill themselves after that. They'll lateral to other large or mid-sized firms lower down the roll, that might be inaccessible to the WUSTL grad who didn't start in Biglaw.

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Rock-N-Roll
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Re: Am I an idiot...

Postby Rock-N-Roll » Wed May 04, 2011 7:51 pm

When considering a school with less prestige and a full scholarship versus one with more prestige and no scholarship, I think the key determining factor is whether or not you believe that the lower prestige school will allow you to achieve your career aspirations, and if it will only partially do so, is that something you can accept.

Instead of this silly thread, OP should try and get ahold of some WUSTL students to get their two cents.

That's my two cents anyway.

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northwood
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Re: Am I an idiot...

Postby northwood » Wed May 04, 2011 7:58 pm

OP there are some WUSTL students on this thread who may be willing to offer their advice and help you make the decision. I dont think you are an idiot for considering WUSTL over CLS- because 150k is a lot of money, and in your situtation LRAP might not be an option ( however, i do not know for sure, and im sure you are actively researching that- and the other requirements that pertain to your situtation). IT all comes down to you. Im sure there are people that are willing to pass up a full ride for CLS- and im sure there are people that will take the full ride and not look back. My only question is do you have any other loans that you need to pay? if you have more loans- then you need to add that to your total cost and factor that into your calculations.

Go to the WUSTL thread and the CLS thread (you can find students there- dont ask 0Ls) and get their perspective.

Congrats on both though! best of luck

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worldtraveler
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Re: Am I an idiot...

Postby worldtraveler » Wed May 04, 2011 8:23 pm

OP I don't think you're an idiot for considering this. Private loans are far more brutal than the ones US citizens can get. I have a good friend at Berkeley who was faced with the same choice and chose Berkeley at the higher cost. If you want, I can put you in touch with him as he knows all about the difficulties of not being a citizen and dealing with private loans.

protein
Posts: 228
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Re: Am I an idiot...

Postby protein » Thu May 05, 2011 3:09 am

flcath wrote:Bear in mind while few people stay past 3-5 years in say, the V50 firm where you'll start out (coming from Columbia), they don't all go to work for PD offices or start solos or kill themselves after that. They'll lateral to other large or mid-sized firms lower down the roll, that might be inaccessible to the WUSTL grad who didn't start in Biglaw.

flcath
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Am I an idiot...

Postby flcath » Thu May 05, 2011 3:27 am

protein wrote:
flcath wrote:Bear in mind while few people stay past 3-5 years in say, the V50 firm where you'll start out (coming from Columbia), they don't all go to work for PD offices or start solos or kill themselves after that. They'll lateral to other large or mid-sized firms lower down the roll, that might be inaccessible to the WUSTL grad who didn't start in Biglaw.

Thank you for the citation!

Lastly, "3 to 5" (we'll say 4) years in Biglaw = $725K + bonuses

The same 4 years in "the left mode" = $200K + bonuses and raises

The additional $525K alone justifies choosing CLS over WUSTL, provide you feel it boosts your odds of getting Biglaw by ($150K / $525K) 28.6%.

The most recent stats show that the gap between CLS and WUSTL actually stands at (55.2% - 18.9%) 36.2%, so I think the initial prospects alone make CLS worthwhile.

Again: IF you're sure you want to be a lawyer (FWIW, I think this shit is kind of stupid... are you not smart enough to be a doctor?).

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glewz
Posts: 785
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:32 pm

Re: Am I an idiot...

Postby glewz » Thu May 05, 2011 3:34 am

jman77 wrote:I don't think I've ever indicated that I don't want BigLaw; what I did state previously that the consensus on this and other forums appears to be that most people don't last more then 3-5 years in BigLaw.

I think what the decision really boils down to for me is whether the "safety" represented by graduating from WUSTL with close to no debt is sufficient reason to forego the opportunities associated with graduating from CLS, considering the circumstances.


You will be doing yourself a tremendous disservice if you choose WUSTL over CLS - defffinnnttteeely go to CLS dude.




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