Vanderbilt (with $50,000 scholly) or Northwestern (sticker)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Vandy ($50,000 scholly) or Northwestern (sticker)

Vandy ($50,000)
42
58%
Northwestern (sticker)
31
42%
 
Total votes: 73

paralegal2009
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Vanderbilt (with $50,000 scholly) or Northwestern (sticker)

Postby paralegal2009 » Tue May 03, 2011 10:01 am

Was really excited about Vandy but just got off of the hold list from Northwestern yesterday. My calculations show that NU will be 65,000-75,000 more than Vandy after three years. I don't have a strong preference of geography, although a little scared of Chicago being freezing. I'm from Houston, went to school in the rural Northeast, have lived in NYC for the past 2 years. I loved Nashville when I visited but I wouldn't stay there after law school--prefer bigger cities, but otherwise I think I could be happy in NYC/DC/Atlanta/Houston, etc.... visiting next week, because I've never even been to Chicago! Do people think it's worth it to take NU, even though I know I liked Vandy and it would be cheaper? I was really impressed with the admitted students day, and visited NU next week won't be the same as visiting for an ASW. Interested in firm work, not PI.

Can someone convince me NU is significantly better to be worth it?

FloridaCoastalorbust
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Re: Vanderbilt (with $50,000 scholly) or Northwestern (sticker)

Postby FloridaCoastalorbust » Tue May 03, 2011 10:09 am

65k isn't the end of the world, esp. with the advantages at NU

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Flips88
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Re: Vanderbilt (with $50,000 scholly) or Northwestern (sticker)

Postby Flips88 » Tue May 03, 2011 10:18 am

I had this exact same choice (minus the $5k summer stipend) and deposited at Northwestern yesterday. I was also considering Wisconsin at a very substantial scholarship. However, I am dead set on PI work and so I will utilize Northwestern's great LRAP (Vandy's LRAP is atrocious). If you're going to do private, then the situation is trickier. Either way, you're going to be in a steep hole. $165,000 or $215,000. Vandy has great employment and clerkship opportunities as they hammered home at their ASD, but I'm guessing most of their clerkships are in the South. I think both degrees would be nationally portable, Northwestern's more so than Vandy. Vandy would get you into Atlanta fine and from what they made it sound like DC or NYC if you worked hard enough.

You'll love Chicago. NU is in a great location and in a great part of town.

I don't know if NU is necessarily significantly better enough to be worth it, but it's still a great choice. But the sticker price for private is kind of scary.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Vanderbilt (with $50,000 scholly) or Northwestern (sticker)

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue May 03, 2011 11:05 am

Northwestern, especially since you do not have a specific geographic preference.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Vanderbilt (with $50,000 scholly) or Northwestern (sticker)

Postby jenesaislaw » Tue May 03, 2011 1:03 pm

Flips88 wrote:I had this exact same choice (minus the $5k summer stipend) and deposited at Northwestern yesterday. I was also considering Wisconsin at a very substantial scholarship. However, I am dead set on PI work and so I will utilize Northwestern's great LRAP (Vandy's LRAP is atrocious). If you're going to do private, then the situation is trickier. Either way, you're going to be in a steep hole. $165,000 or $215,000. Vandy has great employment and clerkship opportunities as they hammered home at their ASD, but I'm guessing most of their clerkships are in the South. I think both degrees would be nationally portable, Northwestern's more so than Vandy. Vandy would get you into Atlanta fine and from what they made it sound like DC or NYC if you worked hard enough.

You'll love Chicago. NU is in a great location and in a great part of town.

I don't know if NU is necessarily significantly better enough to be worth it, but it's still a great choice. But the sticker price for private is kind of scary.


Clerkships Vandy grads got this year:

Federal Courts of Appeal
D.C. Circuit
6th Circuit (x6)
8th Circuit (x2)
11th Circuit

Lower-level Federal Courts
New Mexico (x2)
M.D. Tennessee (x3)
E.D. Tennessee
E.D. Virginia
W.D. North Carolina
Nevada
D.C.
Pennsylvania
Virgin Islands
S.D. West Virginia
Arizona
S.D. Florida
E.D. Kentucky
S.D. Mississippi
N.D. Georgia
N.D. Alabama
M.D.Louisiana

State Courts
Los Angeles Superior Court
Massachusetts Court of Appeals
Minnesota District
Tennessee Criminal Court of Appeals
Vermont Superior Court
Tennessee Supreme Court
Kentucky Supreme Court
Tennessee Circuit Court
Delaware Chancery


Many are in the south, but it's not even a majority under my count. Keep in mind that the 6th Circuit is mostly not in the south, though I'm not sure where the judges are located. If you add Kentucky to the south, it's closer to 50/50.

I think this is a relatively close call and that it should largely come down to where you're most comfortable. $50,000 + interest is a lot of money.

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bk1
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Re: Vanderbilt (with $50,000 scholly) or Northwestern (sticker)

Postby bk1 » Tue May 03, 2011 1:06 pm

Less debt is a wonderful thing and you seem to prefer the South and NYC, as those are Vandy's primary placement areas.

I think this is a pretty easy call for Vandy.

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drylo
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Re: Vanderbilt (with $50,000 scholly) or Northwestern (sticker)

Postby drylo » Wed May 04, 2011 1:58 am

jenesaislaw wrote:Clerkships Vandy grads got this year:

***

Many are in the south, but it's not even a majority under my count. Keep in mind that the 6th Circuit is mostly not in the south, though I'm not sure where the judges are located. If you add Kentucky to the south, it's closer to 50/50.

I think this is a relatively close call and that it should largely come down to where you're most comfortable. $50,000 + interest is a lot of money.


Thanks for posting that.

I about lost it when I read this:

Flips88 wrote:[...] but I'm guessing most of their clerkships are in the South.


And this, too, actually:

Flips88 wrote:Either way, you're going to be in a steep hole. $165,000 or $215,000.


In order to graduate from Vandy with that much debt (having received a $50k scholarship), you would have to (1) take out the full amount of available loans; (2) spend it all (i.e., spend freely); and (3) not make any money during law school at all (from summer work or RAing). I think it's fair to say that you would be in the minority if you satisfied all three conditions.

Again (as I always say), not that I'm trying to push Vandy on anybody who would rather go somewhere else. I just want to counter some of the exaggerations or "guesses" that people on here are prone to drift into at times--and help anybody who actually does want to go to Vandy to feel confident in that choice (in the face of TLS mega-elitism).

whymeohgodno
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Re: Vanderbilt (with $50,000 scholly) or Northwestern (sticker)

Postby whymeohgodno » Wed May 04, 2011 2:03 am

bk1 wrote:Less debt is a wonderful thing and you seem to prefer the South and NYC, as those are Vandy's primary placement areas.

I think this is a pretty easy call for Vandy.


Aren't you on hold/waitlisted at NU? Stop trying to get the user to withdraw his spot based on personal interests.

It could go either way but by no means is this an "easy call".

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glewz
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Re: Vanderbilt (with $50,000 scholly) or Northwestern (sticker)

Postby glewz » Wed May 04, 2011 2:13 am

70k less @ Vandy is serious money. (count interest as well)

It's not a bad choice at all to choose Vandy over NU, though if you haven't visited NU, you should consider doing so.

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glewz
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Re: Vanderbilt (with $50,000 scholly) or Northwestern (sticker)

Postby glewz » Wed May 04, 2011 2:20 am

whymeohgodno wrote:
bk1 wrote:Less debt is a wonderful thing and you seem to prefer the South and NYC, as those are Vandy's primary placement areas.

I think this is a pretty easy call for Vandy.


Aren't you on hold/waitlisted at NU? Stop trying to get the user to withdraw his spot based on personal interests.


LOL oh no bk caught red handed? :D

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FlanAl
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Re: Vanderbilt (with $50,000 scholly) or Northwestern (sticker)

Postby FlanAl » Wed May 04, 2011 2:36 am

jenesaislaw wrote:
Flips88 wrote:I had this exact same choice (minus the $5k summer stipend) and deposited at Northwestern yesterday. I was also considering Wisconsin at a very substantial scholarship. However, I am dead set on PI work and so I will utilize Northwestern's great LRAP (Vandy's LRAP is atrocious). If you're going to do private, then the situation is trickier. Either way, you're going to be in a steep hole. $165,000 or $215,000. Vandy has great employment and clerkship opportunities as they hammered home at their ASD, but I'm guessing most of their clerkships are in the South. I think both degrees would be nationally portable, Northwestern's more so than Vandy. Vandy would get you into Atlanta fine and from what they made it sound like DC or NYC if you worked hard enough.

You'll love Chicago. NU is in a great location and in a great part of town.

I don't know if NU is necessarily significantly better enough to be worth it, but it's still a great choice. But the sticker price for private is kind of scary.


Clerkships Vandy grads got this year:

Federal Courts of Appeal
D.C. Circuit
6th Circuit (x6)
8th Circuit (x2)
11th Circuit

Lower-level Federal Courts
New Mexico (x2)
M.D. Tennessee (x3)
E.D. Tennessee
E.D. Virginia
W.D. North Carolina
Nevada
D.C.
Pennsylvania
Virgin Islands
S.D. West Virginia
Arizona
S.D. Florida
E.D. Kentucky
S.D. Mississippi
N.D. Georgia
N.D. Alabama
M.D.Louisiana

State Courts
Los Angeles Superior Court
Massachusetts Court of Appeals
Minnesota District
Tennessee Criminal Court of Appeals
Vermont Superior Court
Tennessee Supreme Court
Kentucky Supreme Court
Tennessee Circuit Court
Delaware Chancery


Many are in the south, but it's not even a majority under my count. Keep in mind that the 6th Circuit is mostly not in the south, though I'm not sure where the judges are located. If you add Kentucky to the south, it's closer to 50/50.

I think this is a relatively close call and that it should largely come down to where you're most comfortable. $50,000 + interest is a lot of money.


I first want to thank jenesaislaw for all the great research and statistics he provides. Just want to say that that although not all the clerkships are in the south a hefty portion of them are in the 6th district. Clerkships are usually claimed as one of vandy's big strengths but you need to make sure that those connections are in a place you want to be.

With no geographic preference i'd say go to vandy.

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Grizz
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Re: Vanderbilt (with $50,000 scholly) or Northwestern (sticker)

Postby Grizz » Wed May 04, 2011 3:26 am

bk1 wrote:Less debt is a wonderful thing and you seem to prefer the South and NYC, as those are Vandy's primary placement areas.

I think this is a pretty easy call for Vandy.


I agree with BK here 100%. Money talks.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Vanderbilt (with $50,000 scholly) or Northwestern (sticker)

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed May 04, 2011 8:31 am

OP: The point is that regarding your law school application cycle--you won. There is no wrong choice here. Congratulations !

paralegal2009
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Re: Vanderbilt (with $50,000 scholly) or Northwestern (sticker)

Postby paralegal2009 » Wed May 04, 2011 9:46 am

thanks everyone! i am going to take a two day trip to chicago next week to visit, and i'll have to give them my deposit then if i decide to go. hopefully when i visit, i'll have a good feeling whether NU or Vandy is the best for me.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Vanderbilt (with $50,000 scholly) or Northwestern (sticker)

Postby jenesaislaw » Wed May 04, 2011 10:04 am

I don't think many of those clerkships really came from connections so much as a diligence by some combination of the student and Professor Bressman, our clerkships person. He has connections, sure, but I doubt it's with that many where people get the clerkships. Our clerkship statistics have improved so much because he stays on our ass and drives home how useful and gettable clerkships are, and attempts to focus people on ones they have a shot with by being honest. This is not a product of an old boys network.

I'll look into the 6th Circuit clerkship locations later, but it's kind of laughable that I have to.

fingersxd
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Re: Vanderbilt (with $50,000 scholly) or Northwestern (sticker)

Postby fingersxd » Wed May 04, 2011 10:26 am

paralegal2009 wrote:thanks everyone! i am going to take a two day trip to chicago next week to visit, and i'll have to give them my deposit then if i decide to go. hopefully when i visit, i'll have a good feeling whether NU or Vandy is the best for me.


Fist, let's agree that these are both great schools and there is no wrong choice here. If you absolutely LOVE your visit to NU, then by all means go there. Chicago is a great city and has a ton to offer. Otherwise, 70k is a nice chunk of change to pay off (plus although Chicago has relatively low CoL for a big city, Nashville is lower still and an extra couple thousand a year doesn't hurt). If you already liked Vanderbilt, graduating with less debt is an appealing prospect.

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Flips88
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Re: Vanderbilt (with $50,000 scholly) or Northwestern (sticker)

Postby Flips88 » Wed May 04, 2011 10:32 am

Since OP is interested in firm work, Vandy seems like the clear choice. Paying off Northwestern at sticker doing private will mean you are big law or bust or you're stuck doing IBR for 25 years.

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AreJay711
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Re: Vanderbilt (with $50,000 scholly) or Northwestern (sticker)

Postby AreJay711 » Wed May 04, 2011 10:36 am

Vandy all the way if you don't want Chicago and laugh all the way to the bank if you get biglaw.

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bk1
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Re: Vanderbilt (with $50,000 scholly) or Northwestern (sticker)

Postby bk1 » Wed May 04, 2011 12:25 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:Aren't you on hold/waitlisted at NU? Stop trying to get the user to withdraw his spot based on personal interests.

It could go either way but by no means is this an "easy call".


I am, but I don't think that is driving my advice here.

The main reason that I advised Vandy in this situation was twofold, the money, which in and of itself I would not have recommended Vandy over NU (I think Vandy is still expensive in this situation and the price isn't right), and OP's seeming preference for southern markets. I think it's 50/50 if you're just basing it on money, but since OP mentioned Atlanta and Houston, I assume that OP has an interest in large southern cities in general. While NU will give the clear advantage for NYC and DC (the latter of which is going to be really impossible out of either school), I think that Vandy has the advantage in all the southern cities over NU. I could be wrong on this point as I don't know much about the south (maybe they do like NU over Vandy, but my impression is the opposite).

So yes, my advice could be clouded but I don't think it is. Feel free to disagree with me though and bring up something relevant. If OP had not had a preference for the south, I think that NU is the call since Vandy debt is still pretty high (140-150k+), but that is not the case.

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glewz
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Re: Vanderbilt (with $50,000 scholly) or Northwestern (sticker)

Postby glewz » Wed May 04, 2011 1:05 pm

bk1 wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:Aren't you on hold/waitlisted at NU? Stop trying to get the user to withdraw his spot based on personal interests.

It could go either way but by no means is this an "easy call".


I am, but I don't think that is driving my advice here.

The main reason that I advised Vandy in this situation was twofold, the money, which in and of itself I would not have recommended Vandy over NU (I think Vandy is still expensive in this situation and the price isn't right), and OP's seeming preference for southern markets. I think it's 50/50 if you're just basing it on money, but since OP mentioned Atlanta and Houston, I assume that OP has an interest in large southern cities in general. While NU will give the clear advantage for NYC and DC (the latter of which is going to be really impossible out of either school), I think that Vandy has the advantage in all the southern cities over NU. I could be wrong on this point as I don't know much about the south (maybe they do like NU over Vandy, but my impression is the opposite).

So yes, my advice could be clouded but I don't think it is. Feel free to disagree with me though and bring up something relevant. If OP had not had a preference for the south, I think that NU is the call since Vandy debt is still pretty high (140-150k+), but that is not the case.


Vandy is TCR :) just kidding around

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bk1
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Re: Vanderbilt (with $50,000 scholly) or Northwestern (sticker)

Postby bk1 » Wed May 04, 2011 1:14 pm

glewz wrote:Vandy is TCR :) just kidding around


I didn't think that whymeohgodno was. However, I do think it is worth pointing out when people giving advice have a conflict of interest (such as in my case). Though it is douchey to just attack them for it rather than pointing it out and actually helping the OP. Which is why I tried to be nonconfrontational with my response. To be fair I should have included it in my initial response but I wasn't really thinking about it.

fingersxd
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Re: Vanderbilt (with $50,000 scholly) or Northwestern (sticker)

Postby fingersxd » Wed May 25, 2011 10:24 am

paralegal2009 wrote:thanks everyone! i am going to take a two day trip to chicago next week to visit, and i'll have to give them my deposit then if i decide to go. hopefully when i visit, i'll have a good feeling whether NU or Vandy is the best for me.


OP, what did you decide?

canuck996
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Re: Vanderbilt (with $50,000 scholly) or Northwestern (sticker)

Postby canuck996 » Thu May 26, 2011 9:49 am

Flips88 wrote:I had this exact same choice (minus the $5k summer stipend) and deposited at Northwestern yesterday. I was also considering Wisconsin at a very substantial scholarship. However, I am dead set on PI work and so I will utilize Northwestern's great LRAP (Vandy's LRAP is atrocious). If you're going to do private, then the situation is trickier. Either way, you're going to be in a steep hole. $165,000 or $215,000. Vandy has great employment and clerkship opportunities as they hammered home at their ASD, but I'm guessing most of their clerkships are in the South. I think both degrees would be nationally portable, Northwestern's more so than Vandy. Vandy would get you into Atlanta fine and from what they made it sound like DC or NYC if you worked hard enough.

You'll love Chicago. NU is in a great location and in a great part of town.

I don't know if NU is necessarily significantly better enough to be worth it, but it's still a great choice. But the sticker price for private is kind of scary.


As others have already said, clerkships, unlike jobs, are not related to geographic connections. Most judges couldn't care less whether you intend to practice law in Sheboygan Wisconsin. Judges realize that clerkships are temporary 1-year or 2-year commitments and the top judges expect their clerks to go to the top firms.

I'm a recent Vandy grad and had clerkship interviews on the DC Circuit, 9th Circuit, and 6th Circuit, so there is certainly not a geographic limitation to the south.

With the money difference, I would definitely recommend Vandy unless you visisted and didn't like the school/environment.

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Grizz
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Re: Vanderbilt (with $50,000 scholly) or Northwestern (sticker)

Postby Grizz » Thu May 26, 2011 6:57 pm

canuck996 wrote:As others have already said, clerkships, unlike jobs, are not related to geographic connections. Most judges couldn't care less whether you intend to practice law in Sheboygan Wisconsin. Judges realize that clerkships are temporary 1-year or 2-year commitments and the top judges expect their clerks to go to the top firms.


Depends what judges bro. I got some judges down here on the 11th Circuit who'd disagree with you. 2/9/DC though is a different ballgame.




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