NYTimes Article About Law School Scholarships

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Law Sauce
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Re: NYTimes Article About Law School Scholarships

Postby Law Sauce » Mon May 02, 2011 1:38 pm

gwuorbust wrote:
mr_toad wrote:Also, the competition that usnews causes is helpful for many students who receive scholarships that they would not have gotten if there was not so much competition between schools.


you do realize that this is simply a monetary transfer from those student who pay full tuition to those who don't, right? If *merit* scholarships were eliminated across the board, then everyone would *in theory* pay less.


I realize that, (you are quoting me not mr_toad), but that does not change what I said, "the competition that usnews causes is helpful for many students who receive scholarships that they would not have gotten if there was not so much competition between schools." It is still helpful for many students. Even if it is not fair or right or whatever. That was all that I said.

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mr_toad
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Re: NYTimes Article About Law School Scholarships

Postby mr_toad » Mon May 02, 2011 1:53 pm

Law Sauce wrote:
gwuorbust wrote:
mr_toad wrote:Also, the competition that usnews causes is helpful for many students who receive scholarships that they would not have gotten if there was not so much competition between schools.


you do realize that this is simply a monetary transfer from those student who pay full tuition to those who don't, right? If *merit* scholarships were eliminated across the board, then everyone would *in theory* pay less.


I realize that, (you are quoting me not mr_toad), but that does not change what I said, "the competition that usnews causes is helpful for many students who receive scholarships that they would not have gotten if there was not so much competition between schools." It is still helpful for many students. Even if it is not fair or right or whatever. That was all that I said.


I was confused... didn't remember writing that. I'm glad that was already pointed out. That said, different points are being argued here: you can both be right :)

westbayguy
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Re: NYTimes Article About Law School Scholarships

Postby westbayguy » Mon May 02, 2011 1:54 pm

Law Sauce wrote:you do realize that this is simply a monetary transfer from those student who pay full tuition to those who don't, right? If *merit* scholarships were eliminated across the board, then everyone would *in theory* pay less.


TITCR

Eliminate all schollys and grants for everyone. Fed loans are available for all, up to full COA. To do so would eliminate the dilettantes who are attending because it's free and they test well. Giving scholly s to top testers is stupid anyway- they are not the ones who will have trouble getting the big law high paying jobs.

What's the relevance of what your parents make if you are going to get a 160k job at graduation regardless of your parent's success or failure? This isn't like UG where you will graduate untrained for anything and can't borrow the full COA.

Upon graduation (assuming you graduate), all would be eligible for big law, PUI, government, academia and IBR. LRAPS could then dole out funds to all who need it to allow a 10 year amortization (not 20- or 25) of their law school loans (not UG), after the student takes whatever IBR benefit is available, and after taking into consideration the student's post graduation income. If you do Big Law, you pay; do PI, sole practice, government, academia, you don't (or pay less). And if the school sets you up to be unemployed, then the school will bear the brunt of repayment. Might scare a few diploma mills out of business- a good thing.

Oh and get the feds to charge a reasonable interest rate (3.9 % in this environment) - not the extortionate 7.9% the feds charge- you don't have to gouge because defaults will be nil, or close to it. We're just subsidizing UG's who will default in droves.

Money is better directed to those who need it on a much fairer basis.

Make schools compete on class offerings, faculty and law school training rather than $ and ranking.

Will never happen, but it should.

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mr_toad
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Re: NYTimes Article About Law School Scholarships

Postby mr_toad » Mon May 02, 2011 2:56 pm

And another mis-quote... below quote is not from law sauce...

westbayguy wrote:
Law Sauce wrote:you do realize that this is simply a monetary transfer from those student who pay full tuition to those who don't, right? If *merit* scholarships were eliminated across the board, then everyone would *in theory* pay less.


TITCR

Eliminate all schollys and grants for everyone. Fed loans are available for all, up to full COA. To do so would eliminate the dilettantes who are attending because it's free and they test well. Giving scholly s to top testers is stupid anyway- they are not the ones who will have trouble getting the big law high paying jobs.

What's the relevance of what your parents make if you are going to get a 160k job at graduation regardless of your parent's success or failure? This isn't like UG where you will graduate untrained for anything and can't borrow the full COA.

Upon graduation (assuming you graduate), all would be eligible for big law, PUI, government, academia and IBR. LRAPS could then dole out funds to all who need it to allow a 10 year amortization (not 20- or 25) of their law school loans (not UG), after the student takes whatever IBR benefit is available, and after taking into consideration the student's post graduation income. If you do Big Law, you pay; do PI, sole practice, government, academia, you don't (or pay less). And if the school sets you up to be unemployed, then the school will bear the brunt of repayment. Might scare a few diploma mills out of business- a good thing.

Oh and get the feds to charge a reasonable interest rate (3.9 % in this environment) - not the extortionate 7.9% the feds charge- you don't have to gouge because defaults will be nil, or close to it. We're just subsidizing UG's who will default in droves.

Money is better directed to those who need it on a much fairer basis.

Make schools compete on class offerings, faculty and law school training rather than $ and ranking.

Will never happen, but it should.

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bk1
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Re: NYTimes Article About Law School Scholarships

Postby bk1 » Mon May 02, 2011 2:59 pm

westbayguy wrote:Giving scholly s to top testers is stupid anyway- they are not the ones who will have trouble getting the big law high paying jobs.

lolololololol at the bolded.

westbayguy
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Re: NYTimes Article About Law School Scholarships

Postby westbayguy » Mon May 02, 2011 4:52 pm

Apologies for the mis attribution- blame/credit gwuorbust with the original quote

Stand by the substance though

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prezidentv8
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Re: NYTimes Article About Law School Scholarships

Postby prezidentv8 » Mon May 02, 2011 9:21 pm

bk1 wrote:
westbayguy wrote:Giving scholly s to top testers is stupid anyway- they are not the ones who will have trouble getting the big law high paying jobs.

lolololololol at the bolded.


LOL

bahari2010
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Re: NYTimes Article About Law School Scholarships

Postby bahari2010 » Mon May 02, 2011 11:19 pm

scammedhard wrote:Good for you. A few more questions, if you don't mind:

How much debt did you have debt at graduation?

About $25,000, thanks to need-based grants etc.

scammedhard wrote:When did you get your first job (as in months after graduation)?

5 (I wasn't even looking until after the bar) I think I knew only half a dozen that had jobs lined up before graduation.

scammedhard wrote:What was the starting salary?

not a lot, but enough to live on, and everyone has to start somewhere.[/quote]

scammedhard wrote:Of your classmates, how are they doing? Is you story representative of your class?

Going down the 174 names in my year's graduation program, I only recognize about 40% of them; bearing that in mind; most of them have jobs, some have very good legal jobs, some are in state government. a lot of people doing "contract work" (legal temp jobs with no benefits, but which pay more than I make.) I can think of at least a few in solo practice (who are in their early 30's.) Also there are a handfull doing LL.M's mostly in Tax. There are of course a chunk of people working non-law jobs (which don't nessesarily correlate to class rank) I think my experience is fairly representative (which was a pleasant surprise -- given how crowded the legal market here is.)

scammedhard wrote:Best luck, and thank you very much.

Thanks, and I'd be happy to answer more questions if anyone has any.

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zonto
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Re: NYTimes Article About Law School Scholarships

Postby zonto » Wed May 04, 2011 12:36 pm

Thanks for posting the article and for all the comments in this thread. It motivated me to send an email asking for more specifics on my top choice's scholarship just to verify what I was interpreting about their offer was correct for scholarship renewal.

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fastforward
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Re: NYTimes Article About Law School Scholarships

Postby fastforward » Wed May 04, 2011 3:21 pm

zonto wrote: It motivated me to send an email asking for more specifics on my top choice's scholarship just to verify what I was interpreting about their offer was correct for scholarship renewal.


Knowledge is power.

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Flips88
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Re: NYTimes Article About Law School Scholarships

Postby Flips88 » Wed May 04, 2011 3:22 pm

fastforward wrote:
zonto wrote: It motivated me to send an email asking for more specifics on my top choice's scholarship just to verify what I was interpreting about their offer was correct for scholarship renewal.


Knowledge is power.

France is bacon.

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fastforward
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Re: NYTimes Article About Law School Scholarships

Postby fastforward » Wed May 04, 2011 3:32 pm

"The better part of knowledge consists in putting the right question." -- Frances Bacon 8)

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JamMasterJ
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Re: NYTimes Article About Law School Scholarships

Postby JamMasterJ » Wed May 04, 2011 4:24 pm

has anyone gotten emails from schools regarding this article? OSU sent me one today emphasizing that they do not practice this. I thought it was interesting that this article is carrying so much weight

whymeohgodno
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Re: NYTimes Article About Law School Scholarships

Postby whymeohgodno » Wed May 04, 2011 4:25 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:has anyone gotten emails from schools regarding this article? OSU sent me one today emphasizing that they do not practice this. I thought it was interesting that this article is carrying so much weight


It's the Times baby.

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Lwoods
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Re: NYTimes Article About Law School Scholarships

Postby Lwoods » Wed May 04, 2011 6:12 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:has anyone gotten emails from schools regarding this article? OSU sent me one today emphasizing that they do not practice this. I thought it was interesting that this article is carrying so much weight


If only they knew I already reassured TLS about their stipulations. ;) Of course, everyone on TLS already knows to what to look for.

I do think that tOSU considers their lack of scholarship stipulations to be a selling point, though, as that was brought up when I [unsuccessfully] attempted to negotiate more merit aid. This was just another opportunity to market themselves.

borderlinecreep
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Re: NYTimes Article About Law School Scholarships

Postby borderlinecreep » Thu May 05, 2011 12:40 am

Yeah I got an email from southwestern also saying they don't use those types of stipulations.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: NYTimes Article About Law School Scholarships

Postby jenesaislaw » Thu May 05, 2011 10:54 am





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