Decided- Thanks

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Best option for Minneapolis biglaw?

Penn (COA ~120k)
63
67%
U Minn (COA ~50k)
31
33%
 
Total votes: 94

dapperdanman
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Decided- Thanks

Postby dapperdanman » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:26 pm

U Minn= Full-tuition scholly
Penn= Front-loaded, named (If it matters), half-tuition scholarship

Want gainful MN employment.

Keeping it vague to make this as fruitless as possible.
Please weigh in if keen.
Last edited by dapperdanman on Mon May 02, 2011 7:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

bdubs
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Re: Itchy index finger?

Postby bdubs » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:33 pm

You would probably be one of a handful of Penn grads trying to break into the MN market, and you would also have a named scholarship on your resume. I think you'd probably make a splash.

More than a few people at Minnesota will be trying to stay.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Itchy index finger?

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:23 pm

OP, going to Minnesota is the best way to get into the MN market. However, going to Penn will get you a good shot at almost every market. I would be worried about putting that much stock in my chances for a single market with an outside chance at other places. I think that if your flexible about your desire for MN markets or aren't positive about your career goals that you should go to Penn, but if you want to work almost exclusively you ought to take Minnesota

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ahduth
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Re: Itchy index finger?

Postby ahduth » Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:25 pm

What are top market rates in Minnesota? 160k?

I voted Penn regardless.

dapperdanman
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Re: Minn v. Penn

Postby dapperdanman » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:28 am

Thanks all. Bump...

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dpk711
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Re: Minn v. Penn

Postby dpk711 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:31 am

Penn might actually place better in MN than Minn.

HeavenWood
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Re: Minn v. Penn

Postby HeavenWood » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:22 am

dpk711 wrote:Penn might actually place better in MN than Minn.


I'd imagine this would be so with ties.

Slevin Kelevra 2011
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Re: Minn v. Penn

Postby Slevin Kelevra 2011 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:20 am

Penn if you want to get a job. Minn's job placement stats are pretty dismal in comparison to its ranking in US News.

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yngblkgifted
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Re: Minn v. Penn

Postby yngblkgifted » Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:25 am

dapperdanman wrote:U Minn= Full-tuition scholly
Penn= Front-loaded, named (If it matters), half-tuition scholarship

Want gainful MN employment.

Keeping it vague to make this as fruitless as possible.
Please weigh in if keen.


You want to make this unproductive of success? If that's the case, then go to Minnesota. :wink:

jerries
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Re: Minn v. Penn

Postby jerries » Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:06 pm

.
Last edited by jerries on Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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glewz
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Re: Minn v. Penn

Postby glewz » Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:11 pm

jerries wrote:Thanks again all. As it stands though, I am completely ambivalent. I guess I'm not worried about servicing the debt at Penn. I have substantial connections to the Twin Cities, so if I perform well I assume that I can get some job that will allow me to make monthly payments, and though I don't expect to do poorly during 1L, the Silverman-Rodin (Levy loser consolation) covers tuition for the first year, so I can pull the plug and sell crack in Philly if for some reason it's exceptionally terrible.

The thing is, I've heard from a hiring partner at the biggest firm in MSP that they consider candidates from (roughly) the same class rank from U Minn and any non-HYS T14. I was surprised by this, but firms in town seem pretty loyal to U Minn. I am set on MSP, so I'm wondering if Penn would really be worth ~70k more + the forgone networking opportunities in my market. Can anyone else speak intelligently (or otherwise) on the placement power of T14's vs. top schools in insular secondary markets? More info shouldn't hurt.

I'm growing increasingly aprreciative of participation.

tl;dr: (please do)


how sure are you about going to MN after graduation? if you are sure, then go U Minn. If you aren't sure, go Penn. Lots of folks on this board put higher weight on rankings than reasonable.

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danquayle
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Re: Minn v. Penn

Postby danquayle » Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:39 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
dpk711 wrote:Penn might actually place better in MN than Minn.


I'd imagine this would be so with ties.


Insanity. Pure insanity. Markets always prefer their own and firms always rely on their pre-established pipelines. For Minneapolis, every law firm in the city is going to be recruiting at UMINN. How many firms bother with Penn? Only the top ones I'd imagine. At Penn, maybe you get an advantage over Minnesota when the firms actually recruit at both schools, but you're not going to be getting a full lineup of Minnesota options. You also have to consider that Mid-Sized firms are risk averse.

That being said... Penn is a no-brainer. It's is going to get you a lot more options. If you go to Minneapolis and get shut out of Minnesota, you're SOL. That degree isn't going to be portable enough to get you into second or third choice options, especially at median. With Penn, you're going to have plenty of options even if you're shut out of your targets markets. You'll also likely get higher prestige jobs. This will make it easier to lateral back into Minneapolis after a couple years of practice. A lot of those mid-sized/small law firms that might not hire out of Penn right out of law school would likely love to get a Penn educated BigLaw trained lateral 3 years out.

Penn is going to give you the best career options long term, even if you have to work your way back to Minnesota.

anti-phronimos
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Re: Minn v. Penn

Postby anti-phronimos » Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:49 pm

danquayle wrote: Insanity. Pure insanity. Markets always prefer their own and firms always rely on their pre-established pipelines. For Minneapolis, every law firm in the city is going to be recruiting at UMINN. How many firms bother with Penn? Only the top ones I'd imagine. At Penn, maybe you get an advantage over Minnesota when the firms actually recruit at both schools, but you're not going to be getting a full lineup of Minnesota options. You also have to consider that Mid-Sized firms are risk averse.


I don't think this is always true. Every small, mid and big law firm, and the same goes for public service, has told me that I should skip out on WUSTL/SLU if landed T14. Sure, there are recruiting and OCI issues, but it seemed that they were more receptive to someone who could compare local high schools than someone who attended a local law school.

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Veyron
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Re: Minn v. Penn

Postby Veyron » Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:50 pm

Different market, similar decision, you know how I feel about the issue.

HeavenWood
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Re: Minn v. Penn

Postby HeavenWood » Sun May 01, 2011 2:46 am

danquayle wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
dpk711 wrote:Penn might actually place better in MN than Minn.


I'd imagine this would be so with ties.


Insanity. Pure insanity. Markets always prefer their own and firms always rely on their pre-established pipelines.


Hence, the reference to ties. Is the Minnesota legal market insular to the point that a native who attends an East Coast T14 would be at an automatic disadvantage? I'm not familiar with Minnesota, so I'm asking.

Rabbi Marshak
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Re: Minn v. Penn

Postby Rabbi Marshak » Sun May 01, 2011 11:19 pm

Tag

jkay
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Re: Minn v. Penn

Postby jkay » Mon May 02, 2011 12:24 am

danquayle wrote:For Minneapolis, every law firm in the city is going to be recruiting at UM.


And St. Paul.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Minn v. Penn

Postby JamMasterJ » Mon May 02, 2011 2:12 am

HeavenWood wrote:
danquayle wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
dpk711 wrote:Penn might actually place better in MN than Minn.


I'd imagine this would be so with ties.


Insanity. Pure insanity. Markets always prefer their own and firms always rely on their pre-established pipelines.


Hence, the reference to ties. Is the Minnesota legal market insular to the point that a native who attends an East Coast T14 would be at an automatic disadvantage? I'm not familiar with Minnesota, so I'm asking.

Not a disadvantage, but not the expected T14 advantage. The Indianapolis market is a lot like this as well. They'd just as soon have a solid IU-B student, or even a top IU-I student as they would to have a top student from Duke or Cornell. I wouldd think that, way up there in Minnesota, bowing to their Walter Mondale statue, that the situation is similar

dapperdanman
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Re: Decided- Thanks

Postby dapperdanman » Mon May 02, 2011 7:45 am

Thanks everybody. The decision has been made. Best of luck upon your respective paths.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Decided- Thanks

Postby JamMasterJ » Mon May 02, 2011 11:49 am

Where'd you pick?

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Dany
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Re: Decided- Thanks

Postby Dany » Wed May 04, 2011 3:03 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:Where'd you pick?

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dpk711
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Re: Decided- Thanks

Postby dpk711 » Wed May 04, 2011 3:22 pm

Dany wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:Where'd you pick?

dapperdanman
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Re: Decided- Thanks

Postby dapperdanman » Thu May 05, 2011 7:39 am

(Back to orginal moniker)
U Minn- Casting risk aversion to the wind. Prestige and gainful employment can fornicate themselves with a pointy stick.

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thexfactor
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Re: Decided- Thanks

Postby thexfactor » Thu May 05, 2011 2:01 pm

wow im surprised that you put more weight on MINN employment over actual meaningful employment.
Upenn biglaw placement is 40% and Minn is around 15%. That s a huge difference. Almost a 3x difference. 70k diff isn't nearly enough in my opinion.

However, good luck on law school and I hope the safe play pays off.
Last edited by thexfactor on Thu May 05, 2011 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

HeavenWood
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Re: Decided- Thanks

Postby HeavenWood » Thu May 05, 2011 2:01 pm

thexfactor wrote:wow im surprised that you put more weight on MINN employment over actual meaningful employment.
Upenn biglaw placement is 40% and Minn is around 15%. That s a huge difference. Almost a 3x difference. 70k isn't nearly enough in my opinion.

However, good luck on law school and I hope the safe play pays off.


I'm pretty sure Penn's placement is closer to 50%.




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