Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

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sanetruth
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby sanetruth » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:19 pm

This list makes Georgetown look terrible.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:20 pm

Wake Forest University finished in 80th place with about two (2%) percent getting Article III clerkships.

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icouldbuyu
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby icouldbuyu » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:20 pm

sanetruth wrote:This list makes Georgetown look terrible.


Georgetown is terrible

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beachbum
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby beachbum » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:23 pm

icouldbuyu wrote:
sanetruth wrote:This list makes Georgetown look terrible.


Georgetown is terrible


T13 or bust.

Sandro
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby Sandro » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:24 pm

UGA wooo

NVResident
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby NVResident » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:40 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Schools performing much better than their rankings:

University of Washington
Arizona
Georgia
Colorado


You forgot UNLV (overall rank 71, clerkship rank 22). Go Rebels!!!

I would attribute this to three major factors
1> It is the only LS in the state
2> Small overall class size
3> It has to help having the US Senate majority leader representing your state and very interested in the success of the school.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:42 pm

Sorry for the oversight. UNLV has a great dean (I spoke to him about a year ago) & is very welcoming to non-residents.

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:51 pm

That's odd that they just finally released an article on it. This isn't news, though - these are the same numbers that came out when the rankings were dropped. Shameless plug for my compilation, but three year trends incorporating this data can be found here:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=149333&p=4122116&hilit=clerkship#p4122116

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glitched
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby glitched » Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:57 pm

so can someone explain to me the chicago for clerking idea?

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romothesavior
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby romothesavior » Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:59 pm

This data is really :? , and I'm highly skeptical of it. I wonder how some of these schools are getting these outrageously high clerkship numbers (like Washington).

HeavenWood
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby HeavenWood » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:02 pm

beachbum wrote:
icouldbuyu wrote:
sanetruth wrote:This list makes Georgetown look terrible.


Georgetown is terrible


T1310 or bust.


Only plebes settle for Dook. :wink:

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Patriot1208
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:05 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
beachbum wrote:
icouldbuyu wrote:
sanetruth wrote:This list makes Georgetown look terrible.


Georgetown is terrible


T13 10 t6or bust.


Only plebes settle for Dook. :wink:


lol penn

HeavenWood
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby HeavenWood » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:07 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
beachbum wrote:
icouldbuyu wrote:
Georgetown is terrible


T13 10 t6or bust.


Only plebes settle for Dook. :wink:


lol penn


:oops:

I take great pride in JoePa and everything his institution stands for.

scammedhard
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby scammedhard » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:07 pm

romothesavior wrote:This data is really :? , and I'm highly skeptical of it. I wonder how some of these schools are getting these outrageously high clerkship numbers (like Washington).

Agree. Haven't we learned anything? Data provided by law schools, particularly related to employment, is NOT RELIABLE.

HeavenWood
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby HeavenWood » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:08 pm

scammedhard wrote:
romothesavior wrote:This data is really :? , and I'm highly skeptical of it. I wonder how some of these schools are getting these outrageously high clerkship numbers (like Washington).

Agree. Haven't we learned anything? Data provided by law schools, particularly related to employment, is NOT RELIABLE.


It's a lot easier to fudge LSAT medians than federal clerkship placement.

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swampthang
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby swampthang » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:09 pm

scammedhard wrote:
romothesavior wrote:This data is really :? , and I'm highly skeptical of it. I wonder how some of these schools are getting these outrageously high clerkship numbers (like Washington).

Agree. Haven't we learned anything? Data provided by law schools, particularly related to employment, is NOT RELIABLE.


Ok, well until someone goes and runs the numbers over at lawclerkaddict or whatnot, this is all we have. (waits patiently)

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Patriot1208
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:10 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
beachbum wrote:T13 10 t6or bust.


Only plebes settle for Dook. :wink:


lol penn


:oops:

I take great pride in JoePa and everything his institution stands for.

He wears diapers and shit himself during a game at tOSU

scammedhard
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby scammedhard » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:17 pm

HeavenWood wrote:It's a lot easier to fudge LSAT medians than federal clerkship placement.

Just like other employment data, I don't think that they actually "fudge" data. Rather, law schools "massage" the data and present what makes them look better.
With regards to the clerkship data, for instance, is the "% Employed in a Judicial Clerkship by an Article III Federal Judge" the % of all grads, or of all the grads that responded to the survey, or of only all employed grads that they know of? I just skimmed the USNEWS article, but is that data there? I would rather them provide me hard numbers. I can do the math and interpretations myself.

Slevin Kelevra 2011
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby Slevin Kelevra 2011 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:22 pm

Anyone want to combine the NLJ250 biglaw placement stats with these stats? The T25 combined schools would be interesting to see.

HeavenWood
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby HeavenWood » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:36 pm

scammedhard wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:It's a lot easier to fudge LSAT medians than federal clerkship placement.

Just like other employment data, I don't think that they actually "fudge" data. Rather, law schools "massage" the data and present what makes them look better.
With regards to the clerkship data, for instance, is the "% Employed in a Judicial Clerkship by an Article III Federal Judge" the % of all grads, or of all the grads that responded to the survey, or of only all employed grads that they know of? I just skimmed the USNEWS article, but is that data there? I would rather them provide me hard numbers. I can do the math and interpretations myself.


U.S. News has just published its third annual ranking of law schools that send the largest proportions of their graduates on to judicial clerkships for federal judges. The ranking is sorted by the percentage of the 2009 J.D. graduating class that was employed as clerks by federal judges.


I would assume this means the percentage of all graduates. But I probably don't care enough to be skeptical.

upyours
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby upyours » Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:58 am

Wow WUSTL is really banging em out they're tied with Oregon Montana and Idaho!!! Damn!!!!!!!!!! but still dominating Brooklyn law school by 0.1%

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ndirish2010
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby ndirish2010 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:01 pm

Slevin Kelevra 2011 wrote:Anyone want to combine the NLJ250 biglaw placement stats with these stats? The T25 combined schools would be interesting to see.


They are for different graduating classes so it wouldn't be that great.

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Lawlcat
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby Lawlcat » Sun May 01, 2011 11:33 am

Slevin Kelevra 2011 wrote:Anyone want to combine the NLJ250 biglaw placement stats with these stats? The T25 combined schools would be interesting to see.




viewtopic.php?f=1&t=150004

I did this a while ago.

I'm in the middle of finals, but when I'm done, I plan to go pretty those up a bit (e.g. just delete some of the old charts) and also include something I computed in a thread somewhere but don't have handy: averages over the past 3/4 years. I did it various ways:

• all available years (so 2007-2010 NLJ 250, 2007-2009 Article III)
• three most recent "matching" years (2007-2009 NLJ/Article III)
• most recent years from each (2008-2010 NLJ/ 2007-2009 Article III)

and it looked pretty damn similar each way. Article III placement does not fluctuate much, at least for the T13...most T13 schools have about 10%. (So I don't think there's a ZOMG can't mix years concern ... people aren't "falling back" on Article III clerkships anyway, right?) Neither Chicago nor any other non-HYS meaningfully outperforms that figure. Harvard maybe gets 15-20%. Yale (~30%) and Stanford (~25%, if I recall rightly?) do meaningfully better. A couple T14s do worse (5% range).

The other things I remember from this calculation:

• However you slice it, you can go from the top of the T14 to the bottom (well, to the bottom of the T13, anyway) and maybe descend 10%. Usually, that's Chicago (around 70%) to Berkeley (around 60%). That's not anywhere close to the massive drop that I expected after reading TLS and hearing so much about "HYSCCN", "MVP", and "lower" T14 schools.
• If there IS a grouping other than HYS that matters, it's CCP, not CCN. Is that maybe attributable to PI? Sure. Looking at the older sector breakdowns, some schools (like Berkeley, Michigan, and NYU) have considerably more people going into PI, and there's anecdotal evidence that this is by choice.

Some people say this has all changed ITE. We won't know until next year.


ndirish2010 wrote:They are for different graduating classes so it wouldn't be that great.


As I commented above: I don't think there's really a big problem there. Article III placement stats vary maybe a few percentage points year-by-year.

In the current version of the thread linked above, I still have the old (pre-2009 clerkship) compilation for 2010: I did 2010 NLJ plus the average of 2007-2008 clerkships. (from UCLA on, I got lazy and just used 2008.) I'll update that after finals. But honestly, I don't think adding just one more year of Article III is going to change things much.

Here's 2010:

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/7edd4baeb0.png
(again, not yet updated with new clerkship data)


At the top of the thread are 2007, 2008, and 2009, keeping years together (e.g. 2008 NLJ with 2008 Article III). The raw data is also there as a table.

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Rurik
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby Rurik » Sun May 01, 2011 2:57 pm

Is USNWR just trolling people now who still take them seriously?

upyours
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby upyours » Sun May 01, 2011 5:02 pm

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:Article III Clerkships: ( from: USNews & World Report)

1) Yale 27% - I would be floored it this was not incorrect
2) Stanford 24%
3) Harvard 18.1% - Probably incorrect
4) Univ. Washington 18%

5) Arizona 12.3%
6) Duke 12% - Probably incorrect
7) Georgia 11%
8) Michigan 11% - Definitely wrong
9) Virginia 11% - Definitely wrong
10) Penn 10.4% - Definitely wrong
11) Charleston 10%
12) Vanderbilt 10%
13) Colorado 9.5% - Probably incorrect

14) Berkeley 9%
15) Chicago 9%
16) Northwestern 8.1%
17) Columbia 8%
18) NYU 8%
19) Texas 8%

(20 through the end of the list is probably also littered with improper data) yea WUSTL we know is like dead last instead of 80 something

2011 USNews & World Report data & rankings based on 2009 placements.



fixed.

I can speculate out of my ass as well




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