Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

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Charles5
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Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby Charles5 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:44 am

Recent (April 28) article from US News re: Judicial Clerkships for class of 2009 (most recent data). On a percentage basis, 1) Yale 2)Stanford 3)Harvard for Article III clerkships. No real surprise among the top 3, but interesting, nonetheless:

http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/c ... clerkships
Last edited by Charles5 on Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

mrwarre85
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby mrwarre85 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:49 am

Seton Hall- 40% clerkships? Is that a mis-print?

From the list it seems like some schools have connections with local judges and some do not. How many students get their clerkship because of a family connection before law school? All questions I'm able to process this early in the morning.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby Bildungsroman » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:19 am

mrwarre85 wrote:Seton Hall- 40% clerkships? Is that a mis-print?

Only 5% Article III clerkships. Who gives a shit about the other 35%?

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FlanAl
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby FlanAl » Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:32 am

Yeah but UofA and UW? What about Charleston (I didn't even think they were ABA approved yet) This makes me definitely re-think the tls metric of NLJ+clerkship. It also makes it more obvious why Vandy kills it in clerkships (since they don't place anyone outside their neighborhood). Seems like clerkships are really regional, like REALLY regional. Maybe thats old news but its new to me.

upyours
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby upyours » Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:36 am

FlanAl wrote:Yeah but UofA and UW? What about Charleston (I didn't even think they were ABA approved yet) This makes me definitely re-think the tls metric of NLJ+clerkship. It also makes it more obvious why Vandy kills it in clerkships (since they don't place anyone outside their neighborhood). Seems like clerkships are really regional, like REALLY regional. Maybe thats old news but its new to me.



Bahaha Charleston busted a nut on vandy!!!
Last edited by upyours on Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Blindmelon
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby Blindmelon » Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:59 am

Wow, I thought WUSTL was a lot better for clerkships. Their bigfirm + clerkship placement is pretty abysmal. I don't get it.

keg411
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby keg411 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:00 am

mrwarre85 wrote:Seton Hall- 40% clerkships? Is that a mis-print?

From the list it seems like some schools have connections with local judges and some do not. How many students get their clerkship because of a family connection before law school? All questions I'm able to process this early in the morning.


NJ has a huge state judiciary and all of the judges hire clerks. If you look at Camden/Newark's "total clerk" numbers, they are similarly high. They aren't anything prestigious and median students can get them.

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vamedic03
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby vamedic03 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:06 am

FlanAl wrote:Yeah but UofA and UW? What about Charleston (I didn't even think they were ABA approved yet) This makes me definitely re-think the tls metric of NLJ+clerkship. It also makes it more obvious why Vandy kills it in clerkships (since they don't place anyone outside their neighborhood). Seems like clerkships are really regional, like REALLY regional. Maybe thats old news but its new to me.


Or, you could question the numbers. I seriously question whether any Charleston students are in A3 clerkships. I.e., don't believe the USN data.

ETA - per Charleston's website, only 6 students have clerked for an A3 court in the history of the school: http://charlestonlaw.indigofiles.com/Ju ... .18.11.pdf

ETA - Charleston only claims on their website that 21% of 2009 grads are in clerkships. http://www.charlestonlaw.edu/v.php?pg=355

mrwarre85
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby mrwarre85 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:37 am

vamedic03 wrote:
FlanAl wrote:Yeah but UofA and UW? What about Charleston (I didn't even think they were ABA approved yet) This makes me definitely re-think the tls metric of NLJ+clerkship. It also makes it more obvious why Vandy kills it in clerkships (since they don't place anyone outside their neighborhood). Seems like clerkships are really regional, like REALLY regional. Maybe thats old news but its new to me.


Or, you could question the numbers. I seriously question whether any Charleston students are in A3 clerkships. I.e., don't believe the USN data.

ETA - per Charleston's website, only 6 students have clerked for an A3 court in the history of the school: http://charlestonlaw.indigofiles.com/Ju ... .18.11.pdf

ETA - Charleston only claims on their website that 21% of 2009 grads are in clerkships. http://www.charlestonlaw.edu/v.php?pg=355


Well USN doesn't make up data, so Charleston would have had to make up two different numbers for two different publications.

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vamedic03
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby vamedic03 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:39 am

mrwarre85 wrote:
vamedic03 wrote:
FlanAl wrote:Yeah but UofA and UW? What about Charleston (I didn't even think they were ABA approved yet) This makes me definitely re-think the tls metric of NLJ+clerkship. It also makes it more obvious why Vandy kills it in clerkships (since they don't place anyone outside their neighborhood). Seems like clerkships are really regional, like REALLY regional. Maybe thats old news but its new to me.


Or, you could question the numbers. I seriously question whether any Charleston students are in A3 clerkships. I.e., don't believe the USN data.

ETA - per Charleston's website, only 6 students have clerked for an A3 court in the history of the school: http://charlestonlaw.indigofiles.com/Ju ... .18.11.pdf

ETA - Charleston only claims on their website that 21% of 2009 grads are in clerkships. http://www.charlestonlaw.edu/v.php?pg=355


Well USN doesn't make up data, so Charleston would have had to make up two different numbers for two different publications.


Doesn't mean that their numbers are reliable.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:44 am

Article III Clerkships: ( from: USNews & World Report)

1) Yale 27%
2) Stanford 24%
3) Harvard 18.1%
4) Univ. Washington 18%--seems to be incorrect. Probably should be in the 6% range as Washigton probably reported 18% for all clerkships state & federal.

5) Arizona 12.3%---Arizona's actual placement % is 5.5% (not 12.3%).
6) Duke 12%
7) Georgia 11%
8) Michigan 11%
9) Virginia 11%
10) Penn 10.4%
11) Charleston 10%--few believe this figure is accurate.
12) Vanderbilt 10%
13) Colorado 9.5%

14) Berkeley 9%
15) Chicago 9%
16) Northwestern 8.1%
17) Columbia 8%
18) NYU 8%
19) Texas 8%

20) Notre Dame 7.6%
21) Alabama 7.5%
22) UNLV 6.8%
23) Cornell 6%
24) Memphis 6%
25) UCLA 5.9%
26) Wash & Lee 5.9%
27) Emory 5,7%
28) Georgetown 5.3%
29) Iowa 5.3%
30) Seton Hall 5%

31) Dayton 5%
32) Louisville 5%
33) UNC 5%
34) Richmond 5%
35) Liberty 4.8%
36) Indiana 4.7%
37) Temple 4.4%
38) Boston College 4.3%
39) Illinois 4.2%
40) Ave Maria 4%

41) GWU 4%
42) Loyola-N.O. 4%
43) Mississippi College 4%
44) SMU 4%
45) Tulane 4%
46) Kentucky 4%
47) Minnesota 4%
48) USC 4%
49) Tennessee 4%
50) Vermont 4%

51) West Virginia U. 3.9%
52) Boston University 3.5%
53) Missouri 3.5%
54) Fordham 3.3%
55) Creighton 3.2%
56) Albany 3%
57) BYU 3%
58) Coll. of Wm. & Mary 3%
59) Ohio State 3%

60) Samford (Ala.)
61) UC-Davis
62) Idaho
63) Montana
64) Oregon
65) WashUStL
66) Brooklyn
67) LSU
68) Case Western Reserve
69) Pepperdine
70) Seattle
71) UConn
72) Florida
73) Loyola-Chicago
74) Baylor

2011 USNews & World Report data & rankings based on 2009 placements.
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Fri May 06, 2011 1:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:11 am

Schools performing much better than their rankings:

University of Washington
UNLV
Georgia
Colorado
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Thu May 05, 2011 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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swampthang
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby swampthang » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:34 am

CanadianWolf wrote:Schools performing much better than their rankings:

University of Washington
Arizona
Georgia
Colorado


What's up with Chicago at 9% only ahead of NW, NYU, and Columbia?? I thought Chi was supposed to be a federal clerkship powerhouse, at least that's their reputation.

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Law Sauce
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby Law Sauce » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:38 am

This data is questionable/confusing/misleading I'd say.

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The Gentleman
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby The Gentleman » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:47 am

I'm thinking about withdrawing from Georgetown and retake/reapply to DAYTON?

CanadianWolf
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:50 am

Georgetown is the largest law school in the nation & Dayton is better than its ranking suggests. No need to retake or reapply, just transfer. :D

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The Gentleman
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby The Gentleman » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:58 am

CanadianWolf wrote:Georgetown is the largest law school in the nation & Dayton is better than its ranking suggests. No need to retake or reapply, just transfer. :D


Well with clerkship numbers like that, Dayton's only accepting transfers from HYSCCN. :shock:

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icouldbuyu
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby icouldbuyu » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:59 am

Whats up with NYU? MVP beat them in NLJ Placement and Clerkship placement. Are their PI placement that much better than MVP that they are T6?

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beachbum
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby beachbum » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:00 am

Lookin sexy, Duke. Hopefully next year we can finally jump Zona.

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Law Sauce
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby Law Sauce » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:10 am

After looking at the websites of a couple schools, Washington and Arizona. Both have ridiculously small class sizes. Arizona's percentages come from 129 students (all but 11 unemployed or not seeking students, which brings class size to 140, this is really small). Thus the 12.3% = 16 kids in A3 which is still really good. (or 17 kids if the percentage was taken from the total class size instead of the total number of people employed in the class, either way the math does not come out to whole numbers so something is confusing there, not sure if rounding can make the whole thing work out). MVP on the other hand are in the 30-50 kids range which is still more obviously, though a lower percentage. It seems that perhaps that some of these school had a really good year and have good connections. Obviously it is hard to tell how competitive these judges were.... but still.

Other small school such as Chicago did not seem to benefit from the smaller class size and they had less than mvp. This could be due to the fact that firm jobs were more easily available to Chicago students than Arizona students. This could be a sign of a rising economy. In this scenario, Chicago students would only be drawn away from firm jobs by highly prestigious clerkships, leading to a lower total percentage of the class in clerkships. This seems to be supported by the fact that 0% of Chicago grad took non-A3 clerkships (Interestingly 0% of Cornell grads took non-A3 clerkships as well). Both of these school are not only smaller size schools for T14 schools but they also were #1 and #2 this year in percentage of students placed in nlj250 firms. I dont think that this is a coincidence. It may or may indicate that top firms are going to less OCIs, focusing instead on top schools such as Cornell and Chicago (at least firms able to draw students away from clerkships right away, at least less prestigious ones). Or, it could simply indicate that top students are more panic driven and thus are being content with and happy that they got a firm job at oci instead of being confident in their ability to put in the extra effort and get a clerkship for afterward as well. Or.... it could just be a regionalizing of clerkships at least in less desirable places.

TL;DR Yippee! Maybe the economy is getting better! Or not.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:42 am

45 of the 187 law schools included in the USNews clerkship rankings had zero 0 (%) percent Article III clerkships.

Regardless of class sizes, Arizona & Washington offer some great clerkship opportunities for their students.

Interesting that Arizona State has only 1.2% Article III clerkship placements, while the University of Arizona has 12.3%. Many students get accepted to both ASU & Arizona--wonder if this might change some decisions.

Tarheel10
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby Tarheel10 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:57 am

Damn UW.

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Law Sauce
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby Law Sauce » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:08 pm

vamedic03 wrote:ETA - per Charleston's website, only 6 students have clerked for an A3 court in the history of the school: http://charlestonlaw.indigofiles.com/Ju ... .18.11.pdf


I cant exactly see where you are getting this. The last pages list all the federal judges that have hired Charleston grads. There are 7. All from the distinct of Sc except for one from GA.

188 students (I'm using the class of 2013, but other class probably are similar in size) at 10% a3 clerks = 18 or 19 clerks. If it is all from these 6 judges on this SC distinct court and one from GA. Then each judge is hiring 2 or 3 clerks from Charlestown. This is surprising. It shows a dominance on this court. Not really much else. But this is very impressive nonetheless. It is odd that in one year there would be more grads in a3 then they have ever had judges hire from there. It does seem a little hard to believe.

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Law Sauce
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby Law Sauce » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:12 pm

icouldbuyu wrote:Whats up with NYU? MVP beat them in NLJ Placement and Clerkship placement. Are their PI placement that much better than MVP that they are T6?


Being rated T6, has only 20%-30% to do with career prospects.

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red_alertz
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Re: Recent Clerkship Data From US News (Link)

Postby red_alertz » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:15 pm

why is ava maria up there? where's wake forest




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