BYU or ASU ?

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BYU or ASU

Poll ended at Tue May 03, 2011 5:18 pm

BYU - No Scholarship
0
No votes
ASU - 38k 1st year, 15k 2nd, 15k 3rd
1
100%
 
Total votes: 1

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bigbear78
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BYU or ASU ?

Postby bigbear78 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:06 pm

I was set on attending BYU, with tuition at 10k a year, how could I pass that up (yes I'm Mormon). Seat deposit, transcripts, etc. were all sent in. This morning I received a phone call (email as well) and a scholarship offer from ASU, even after failing to submit my seat deposit, and other info. The offer makes ASU slightly less expensive than BYU, but with tuition increases, it will probably be the same.
Now I have a tough decision to make, my entire family is in the Phoenix area so that's a bonus. However BYU offers a network that's far greater than that of ASU. On the other hand, I'm looking to remain in the west.
Last I recall, BYU places higher in NLJ250, but ASU is the only law school in the 5th most populated city in the US.
Thoughts? input?
Last edited by bigbear78 on Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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powerlawyer06
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Re: BYU or ASU ?

Postby powerlawyer06 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:07 pm

Go to BYU. If you are Mormon then you will fit in and nobody has a stronger alumni network than BYU. NO ONE.

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powerlawyer06
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Re: BYU or ASU ?

Postby powerlawyer06 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:10 pm

Also...they have the 2nd highest yield in the country.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-gr ... aw-schools

If I was mormon(which I am definitely not) I would definitely go to BYU.

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bigbear78
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Re: BYU or ASU ?

Postby bigbear78 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:32 pm

powerlawyer06 wrote:Also...they have the 2nd highest yield in the country.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-gr ... aw-schools

If I was mormon(which I am definitely not) I would definitely go to BYU.


Thanks for the post powerlawyer, I'm leaning towards BYU, but was looking to hear other opinions.
Also, think I could get BYU to offer $$ ?

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Lawquacious
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Re: BYU or ASU ?

Postby Lawquacious » Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:34 pm

bigbear78 wrote:
powerlawyer06 wrote:Also...they have the 2nd highest yield in the country.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-gr ... aw-schools

If I was mormon(which I am definitely not) I would definitely go to BYU.


Thanks for the post powerlawyer, I'm leaning towards BYU, but was looking to hear other opinions.
Also, think I could get BYU to offer $$ ?



You could always ask...

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El_Gallo
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Re: BYU or ASU ?

Postby El_Gallo » Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:36 pm

Is it the "BYU Network" or is it the "Mormon Network?" I don't know the answer to that, but it might be something for you to consider. Did you go to one of the BYUs for undergrad? If so, that could really help you tap into those LDS connections.

If you are set on practicing in Arizona, I say ASU. Anywhere else, BYU.

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dr123
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Re: BYU or ASU ?

Postby dr123 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:42 pm

If you like booze, warm weather, and hot undergrads go to ASU. If not, go to BYU

bellamy
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Re: BYU or ASU ?

Postby bellamy » Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:46 pm

El_Gallo wrote:Is it the "BYU Network" or is it the "Mormon Network?" I don't know the answer to that, but it might be something for you to consider. Did you go to one of the BYUs for undergrad? If so, that could really help you tap into those LDS connections.

If you are set on practicing in Arizona, I say ASU. Anywhere else, BYU.

It is the Mormon network w/o doubt. If you want to end up in Az go to ASU but in ITE you will need to do very well (top 25% or better) to have a good chance at a job. ASU will be somewhat less competitive than BYU and the weather is much better! It is suppose to snow in Provo on Friday

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dr123
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Re: BYU or ASU ?

Postby dr123 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:49 pm

bellamy wrote:
El_Gallo wrote:Is it the "BYU Network" or is it the "Mormon Network?" I don't know the answer to that, but it might be something for you to consider. Did you go to one of the BYUs for undergrad? If so, that could really help you tap into those LDS connections.

If you are set on practicing in Arizona, I say ASU. Anywhere else, BYU.

It is the Mormon network w/o doubt. If you want to end up in Az go to ASU but in ITE you will need to do very well (top 25% or better) to have a good chance at a job. ASU will be somewhat less competitive than BYU and the weather is much better! It is suppose to snow in Provo on Friday


lolwut?! I have a hard time believing you need to finish in the top 25% at ASU to get A job in AZ

tittsburghfeelers
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Re: BYU or ASU ?

Postby tittsburghfeelers » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:00 pm

dr123 wrote:
bellamy wrote:
El_Gallo wrote:Is it the "BYU Network" or is it the "Mormon Network?" I don't know the answer to that, but it might be something for you to consider. Did you go to one of the BYUs for undergrad? If so, that could really help you tap into those LDS connections.

If you are set on practicing in Arizona, I say ASU. Anywhere else, BYU.

It is the Mormon network w/o doubt. If you want to end up in Az go to ASU but in ITE you will need to do very well (top 25% or better) to have a good chance at a job. ASU will be somewhat less competitive than BYU and the weather is much better! It is suppose to snow in Provo on Friday


lolwut?! I have a hard time believing you need to finish in the top 25% at ASU to get A job in AZ


I'm glad that I'm not the only one who read that ridiculously absurd statement. OP - If I was a Mormon and had your options, I would definitely take BYU. Not only would you have the "Mormon Network" to fall back on, but BYU is probably much cheaper than ASU (assuming you didn't manage to get a large scholarship so late in the cycle).

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bigbear78
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Re: BYU or ASU ?

Postby bigbear78 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:08 pm

tittsburghfeelers wrote:
dr123 wrote:
bellamy wrote:
El_Gallo wrote:Is it the "BYU Network" or is it the "Mormon Network?" I don't know the answer to that, but it might be something for you to consider. Did you go to one of the BYUs for undergrad? If so, that could really help you tap into those LDS connections.

If you are set on practicing in Arizona, I say ASU. Anywhere else, BYU.

It is the Mormon network w/o doubt. If you want to end up in Az go to ASU but in ITE you will need to do very well (top 25% or better) to have a good chance at a job. ASU will be somewhat less competitive than BYU and the weather is much better! It is suppose to snow in Provo on Friday


lolwut?! I have a hard time believing you need to finish in the top 25% at ASU to get A job in AZ


I'm glad that I'm not the only one who read that ridiculously absurd statement. OP - If I was a Mormon and had your options, I would definitely take BYU. Not only would you have the "Mormon Network" to fall back on, but BYU is probably much cheaper than ASU (assuming you didn't manage to get a large scholarship so late in the cycle).


So the details of the scholarship is as follows
BYU - none
ASU - 1L - full tuition 38K (no stipulation)
2L - 15K (no stipulation)
3L - 15K (no stipulation)
ASU would be cheaper, but I don't know how much they could raise their tuition each year, which would definitely water-down the scholarship offer for the 2nd and 3rd years.

Thank you all for your input. I was super excited this morning for ASU, but the more I think about it, the less excited I feel about the offer. I'm married, with two sons, so the hot undergrads at ASU, not really a factor, tempting, but not a factor, lol.

tittsburghfeelers
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Re: BYU or ASU ?

Postby tittsburghfeelers » Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:13 am

So the details of the scholarship is as follows
BYU - none
ASU - 1L - full tuition 38K (no stipulation)
2L - 15K (no stipulation)
3L - 15K (no stipulation)
ASU would be cheaper, but I don't know how much they could raise their tuition each year, which would definitely water-down the scholarship offer for the 2nd and 3rd years.

Thank you all for your input. I was super excited this morning for ASU, but the more I think about it, the less excited I feel about the offer. I'm married, with two sons, so the hot undergrads at ASU, not really a factor, tempting, but not a factor, lol


I read bits and pieces of an ASU thread a week or so ago and apparantly ASU is either in the process of or is attempting to begin the process of privatizing. Private schools are traditionally more expensive than public schools so, unless ASU locks in your tuition for all 3 years, you might want to look into how much their tuition is expected to rise if they do end up privatizing while you would be attending. I also read that ASU was building a new law school in downtown Phoenix and, although I'm not familiar with the area, apparantly this is seperate from the main campus which would obviously negate the hot undergrad factor.

canuck996
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Re: BYU or ASU ?

Postby canuck996 » Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:11 pm

I would go to ASU. If you are a BYU undergrad, you can tap into a lot of that BYU and Mormon network. ASU gives you the opportunity to start networking in the area you want to live and will expand your network as well.

bellamy
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Re: BYU or ASU ?

Postby bellamy » Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:34 pm

dr123 wrote:
bellamy wrote:
El_Gallo wrote:Is it the "BYU Network" or is it the "Mormon Network?" I don't know the answer to that, but it might be something for you to consider. Did you go to one of the BYUs for undergrad? If so, that could really help you tap into those LDS connections.

If you are set on practicing in Arizona, I say ASU. Anywhere else, BYU.

It is the Mormon network w/o doubt. If you want to end up in Az go to ASU but in ITE you will need to do very well (top 25% or better) to have a good chance at a job. ASU will be somewhat less competitive than BYU and the weather is much better! It is suppose to snow in Provo on Friday


lolwut?! I have a hard time believing you need to finish in the top 25% at ASU to get A job in AZ

To bring some reality to this discussion I have just spoken at length with a friend who is about to graduate from ASU and has a job with a mid sized Phoenix firm ( 50 lawyers). He estimates 6-10 of his classmates have similar jobs and another 15% to 25% presently have job offers at small firms or govt agencies. He further guesses that many emploers will wait to make offers until after the applicant has passed the bar, at which time probably 50% or maybe a little more of the class of 200 will be employed in a law related job.He was quick to acknowledge that he didn't know what the official stats were but cautioned against giving any credence to them. I don't know anything about BYUs stats but while they may be better I bet job opportunities are better in Az than in Utah. Thus I stand by my original statement than OP should plan to be in the top 25% of the class although many of his friends got their jobs through networking and prior connections not through the school. In ant event good luck in your decision.

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El_Gallo
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Re: BYU or ASU ?

Postby El_Gallo » Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:44 pm

bellamy wrote:
dr123 wrote:
bellamy wrote:
El_Gallo wrote:Is it the "BYU Network" or is it the "Mormon Network?" I don't know the answer to that, but it might be something for you to consider. Did you go to one of the BYUs for undergrad? If so, that could really help you tap into those LDS connections.

If you are set on practicing in Arizona, I say ASU. Anywhere else, BYU.

It is the Mormon network w/o doubt. If you want to end up in Az go to ASU but in ITE you will need to do very well (top 25% or better) to have a good chance at a job. ASU will be somewhat less competitive than BYU and the weather is much better! It is suppose to snow in Provo on Friday


lolwut?! I have a hard time believing you need to finish in the top 25% at ASU to get A job in AZ

To bring some reality to this discussion I have just spoken at length with a friend who is about to graduate from ASU and has a job with a mid sized Phoenix firm ( 50 lawyers). He estimates 6-10 of his classmates have similar jobs and another 15% to 25% presently have job offers at small firms or govt agencies. He further guesses that many emploers will wait to make offers until after the applicant has passed the bar, at which time probably 50% or maybe a little more of the class of 200 will be employed in a law related job.He was quick to acknowledge that he didn't know what the official stats were but cautioned against giving any credence to them. I don't know anything about BYUs stats but while they may be better I bet job opportunities are better in Az than in Utah. Thus I stand by my original statement than OP should plan to be in the top 25% of the class although many of his friends got their jobs through networking and prior connections not through the school. In ant event good luck in your decision.


If that is the actual job outlook for ASU grads, I say that BYU kids probably have it better. According to the school's website, 85% of 2010 grads were employed in JD required jobs.

--LinkRemoved--

Edit: I see now that that 85% is only with 94% reporting. Still, not too shabby.
Last edited by El_Gallo on Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CanadianWolf
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Re: BYU or ASU ?

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:46 pm

Party school versus saint school.

tittsburghfeelers
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Re: BYU or ASU ?

Postby tittsburghfeelers » Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:48 pm

Whereas I have a hard time actually believing that only a little more than 50% of ASU grads will be in a law related job, coming from what appears to be a credible source is definitely something for the OP to consider.

But still, doesn't ASU have a strangle-hold on Phoenix's legal market? I'd really like to see some ASU employment data for some of the past graduating classes because I'm sure, even if the numbers are slightly fudged, that more than just a little over 50% were employed in a legal related capacity after passing the bar.

Just as kind of an interesting side note, I honestly can't think of two schools furthur apart with regards to the social scene which makes the discussion of these two schools rather odd.

NVResident
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Re: BYU or ASU ?

Postby NVResident » Fri May 06, 2011 1:47 pm

As someone who was raised in a strong LDS family, but is currently non-practicing, I would definitely choose BYU. The connections and environment (especially for married students) are much more supportive. That being said see the following article regarding law schools friendliest to Mormon students;

http://www.mormontimes.com/article/8446 ... hools-list

They exclude BYU and Utah from the rankings for obvious reasons, but UNLV and ASU are the top two outside of Utah and you should definitely feel comfortable in Phoenix.

Edit: Just saw the newest list, ASU is #1 and UNLV and Minnesota tied to #2. See here;

http://www.mormonlawyers.com/2010/03/20 ... y-law.html

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TommyK
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Re: BYU or ASU ?

Postby TommyK » Fri May 06, 2011 1:51 pm

BYU. The tuition is so freakin' reasonable if you're LDS and the connections from the mormon mafia are reportedly incredible.

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zonto
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Re: BYU or ASU ?

Postby zonto » Fri May 06, 2011 3:43 pm

I doubt that you'll get money at BYU now, though they might award you a scholarship if you dominate first year. I already got denied on my request for an increase.

For what it's worth, besides my top four choices I was/am deciding between (check LSN link) ASU definitely impressed me the most. Their correspondence is very professional, their admit packet was the best I received, the paper they print on is actual quality stuff and not economy crap, etc.

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dr123
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Re: BYU or ASU ?

Postby dr123 » Fri May 06, 2011 6:44 pm

[quote="zonto"}I doubt that you'll get money at BYU now, though they might award you a scholarship if you dominate first year. I already got denied on my request for an increase.

For what it's worth, besides my top four choices I was/am deciding between (check LSN link) ASU definitely impressed me the most. Their correspondence is very professional, their admit packet was the best I received, the paper they print on is actual quality stuff and not economy crap, etc.[/quote]


Saints rate duder, all mormons get it at BYU. It's not a scholarship or anything

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zonto
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Re: BYU or ASU ?

Postby zonto » Mon May 09, 2011 2:51 pm

dr123 wrote:Saints rate duder, all mormons get it at BYU. It's not a scholarship or anything


I'm aware of that, but we're comparing "Saints rate" BYU to ASU with scholly and ASU is cheaper. OP didn't get a merit scholly at BYU (did I read that correctly?), but if he does well the first year as a student that initially wasn't awarded one it is possible to obtain one because of that performance. This could make BYU cheaper again, but definitely should not be planned on at this point.

Really the main questions are:

1. Do you like sweltering heat or butt cold more?
2. Do you want to participate in/view the underwear runs at ASU?
3. Which school do you feel most comfortable at? (Hopefully you've visited both)
4. Which do you want to see on your resume for the rest of your life?

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Magnolia
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Re: BYU or ASU ?

Postby Magnolia » Mon May 09, 2011 4:35 pm

I think it should be mentioned that BYU has a reputation for being extremely competitive. I don't know for sure, but I would imagine that ASU will be less cut throat. You should decide whether that's an important factor for you. Some people will be miserable with that much competition, some will thrive, some won't care.

If you went to either of the BYUs or to Utah for UG, you'll have the benefit of the LDS network regardless of where you go and it's sort of a toss up as to which one will end up being cheaper, so those two factors are essentially off the table. What I think it comes down to is whether you're going to be happier in a more conservative, but more competitive environment, or a more liberal, but more laid-back environment. I don't think that's something anyone here can decide for you. FWIW, I don't think there's a wrong choice.




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