Colorado Worth $100k in Debt?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
User avatar
upfish
Posts: 507
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:51 pm

Colorado Worth $100k in Debt?

Postby upfish » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:24 pm

Colorado is my best choice USNWR-wise, but I've heard the Denver market is tight. I have a partial scholarship, but I'd still end up nearly $100k in debt at the end.

Is Colorado worth the debt or should I instead take my 1/2 ride at STCL (est. debt ~$40k) and enjoy Houston for the rest of my natural life?

Possibly relevant info:
-COL is totally handled by my SO in Houston. Possibly not so much in Boulder.
-Would love to work in IP in some capacity, esp. internet/media-related things.
-Would also be fine in civil rights litigation, or employment law.
-Would eventually (in a maximum of ten years) like to be in the PNW. (I realize STCL has almost no placement there, at least according to martindale.com, but maybe with loads of WE it's possible?)
-Know a PI lawyer in Houston with good connections who is amicable to helping out. Not sure how useful she can be ultimately, but she's there fwiw.
-Don't know anyone in Colorado, sort of hate the North Face/Subaru thing, but can probably handle it for 3-5 years.

TheFactor
Posts: 789
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:12 pm

Re: Colorado Worth $100k in Debt?

Postby TheFactor » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:29 pm

good to know that you would "be fine" with civil rights litigation

User avatar
upfish
Posts: 507
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:51 pm

Re: Colorado Worth $100k in Debt?

Postby upfish » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:33 pm

TheFactor wrote:good to know that you would "be fine" with civil rights litigation


--ImageRemoved--

tittsburghfeelers
Posts: 108
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:03 am

Re: Colorado Worth $100k in Debt?

Postby tittsburghfeelers » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:34 pm

Is waiting/retaking and improving your score so that you can get into University of Houston an option? From your OP, it sounds like Houston would be a much better fit for your career interests and SO.

User avatar
upfish
Posts: 507
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:51 pm

Re: Colorado Worth $100k in Debt?

Postby upfish » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:36 pm

tittsburghfeelers wrote:Is waiting/retaking and improving your score so that you can get into University of Houston an option? From your OP, it sounds like Houston would be a much better fit for your career interests and SO.


I did that last year. According to the admissions data from then (when I was rejected), my new LSAT should've gotten me an admit. Instead it got me a WL. So, don't think a third app is going to sell them any harder.

That said, if I got off the WL into UH, I would drop CU in a heartbeat. So, that's an almost-possibility.

crit_racer
Posts: 756
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:15 pm

Re: Colorado Worth $100k in Debt?

Postby crit_racer » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:37 pm

upfish wrote:Colorado is my best choice USNWR-wise, but I've heard the Denver market is tight. I have a partial scholarship, but I'd still end up nearly $100k in debt at the end.

Is Colorado worth the debt or should I instead take my 1/2 ride at STCL (est. debt ~$40k) and enjoy Houston for the rest of my natural life?

Possibly relevant info:
-COL is totally handled by my SO in Houston. Possibly not so much in Boulder.
-Would love to work in IP in some capacity, esp. internet/media-related things.
-Would also be fine in civil rights litigation, or employment law.
-Would eventually (in a maximum of ten years) like to be in the PNW. (I realize STCL has almost no placement there, at least according to martindale.com, but maybe with loads of WE it's possible?)
-Know a PI lawyer in Houston with good connections who is amicable to helping out. Not sure how useful she can be ultimately, but she's there fwiw.
-Don't know anyone in Colorado, sort of hate the North Face/Subaru thing, but can probably handle it for 3-5 years.



If you hate Subarus, don't move to the PNW.

TheFactor
Posts: 789
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:12 pm

Re: Colorado Worth $100k in Debt?

Postby TheFactor » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:38 pm

upfish wrote:
TheFactor wrote:good to know that you would "be fine" with civil rights litigation


--ImageRemoved--

well played

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: Colorado Worth $100k in Debt?

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:40 pm

If you don't want to live & work in Colorado after law school, then consider other options. To be blunt, it reads as if you don't have any idea what you want to do, where you want to live (except 10 years from now that you would like to be in the PNW--the North Face & Subaru capitol of the world) & why you are going to law school.
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
upfish
Posts: 507
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:51 pm

Re: Colorado Worth $100k in Debt?

Postby upfish » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:42 pm

crit_racer wrote:If you hate Subarus, don't move to the PNW.


The PNW does have them, that's true, but somehow it just comes across as less hippie and intentional to me. I'm just mean to people from the Mountain West, I guess.

CanadianWolf wrote:If you don't want to live & work in Colorado after law school, then consider other options.


I'm not necessarily averse to working there for awhile. Also, this is vague.

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: Colorado Worth $100k in Debt?

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:43 pm

Your plans & goals are vague.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18422
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Colorado Worth $100k in Debt?

Postby bk1 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:47 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Your plans & goals are vague.


This x1000.

To put it simply, yes Colorado is worth $100k debt if you are okay with working in Colorado for a while after you graduate. I'd imagine that Colorado will eventually be better for the PNW than STCL, but the fact is that your actual jobs will be far more important in your job search than whether you went to Colorado or STCL.

User avatar
upfish
Posts: 507
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:51 pm

Re: Colorado Worth $100k in Debt?

Postby upfish » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:56 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Your plans & goals are vague.


Clarification:

Law school is happening this year. I took TLS's advice and retook, and this is where I landed. I am bored at my job and have other boring middle-class whiny problems about not wanting to wait 'til I'm 26 to start school.

I'm divided between wanting to do IP and wanting to do PI wrt civil rights issues/whatever. I dunno if it's dyslexia or what, but I figure it will sort itself out once I'm actually in school. If it doesn't, I will freak out and ask TLS and we can talk in vague terms some more or something.

I don't care about BigLaw, but I feel like I might have to if I went to CU due to debt, and would love thoughts on that. Although, I figure it's pointless either way because CU isn't T14.

I'm fine working in Houston for 10 or so years if that's what's necessary. It's a nice place when you aren't outside from June-September.

I'm fine working in Colorado for awhile as well; it's just the initial opportunity cost that sucks.

Are there more ways I could be less vague? I don't really have specific salary targets or anything.

bk1 wrote:
This x1000.

To put it simply, yes Colorado is worth $100k debt if you are okay with working in Colorado for a while after you graduate. I'd imagine that Colorado will eventually be better for the PNW than STCL, but the fact is that your actual jobs will be far more important in your job search than whether you went to Colorado or STCL.


If actual jobs matter most, what makes CU worth $60k more in debt? I've heard Denver's market is tight, so I feel like the actual jobs end of CU might somehow be worse than STCL because of Houston's legal market. :?

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: Colorado Worth $100k in Debt?

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:03 pm

Enjoy Houston. Not clear, but it seems that your plans will affect your SO as well. If currently in Houston & unsure of desired career path, why disrupt two lives when staying put will cost less.

P.S. Colorado is worth an additional $60,000 of debt if you want to establish ties to Colorado & want to live & work in Colorado after law school.

JakeL
Posts: 453
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:30 pm

Re: Colorado Worth $100k in Debt?

Postby JakeL » Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:08 pm

upfish wrote:The PNW does have them, that's true, but somehow it just comes across as less hippie and intentional to me. I'm just mean to people from the Mountain West, I guess.



This is not credited. Pretty sure that PNW hippie pop>/= Mnt West hippie pop.

User avatar
upfish
Posts: 507
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:51 pm

Re: Colorado Worth $100k in Debt?

Postby upfish » Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:18 pm

JakeL wrote:
upfish wrote:The PNW does have them, that's true, but somehow it just comes across as less hippie and intentional to me. I'm just mean to people from the Mountain West, I guess.



This is not credited. Pretty sure that PNW hippie pop>/= Mnt West hippie pop.


Yeah, probably true. Maybe it's just that the type of like, super outdoorsy mountain biking type (I misspoke when I said "hippie," I think) is more conspicuous in Boulder than it is in Seattle just due to the size of the cities.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18422
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Colorado Worth $100k in Debt?

Postby bk1 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:19 pm

upfish wrote:I don't care about BigLaw, but I feel like I might have to if I went to CU due to debt, and would love thoughts on that. Although, I figure it's pointless either way because CU isn't T14.

I'm fine working in Houston for 10 or so years if that's what's necessary. It's a nice place when you aren't outside from June-September.

I'm fine working in Colorado for awhile as well; it's just the initial opportunity cost that sucks.

If actual jobs matter most, what makes CU worth $60k more in debt? I've heard Denver's market is tight, so I feel like the actual jobs end of CU might somehow be worse than STCL because of Houston's legal market. :?


1. You won't need biglaw to pay off 100k in debt. You can manage paying that off with interest in 10 years even on a 40-50k starting salary.

2. Colorado may give you an edge in the PNW eventually but I bet that your job and connections are going to be far more important in helping land a job than whether you went to Colorado or STCL.

3. I never said that CU was worth $60k more than STCL. I said that Colorado was okay for $100k debt. Are things rosy for Colorado? Of course not but it's hard to imagine that things are that good for STCL either considering it sits behind a bunch of other schools. I'd pay the extra money at Colorado, but if your SO has a job in Houston then I say bite the bullet and stay near the SO for now so you can be bailed in the case that finding a full time legal job doesn't work out.

User avatar
upfish
Posts: 507
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:51 pm

Re: Colorado Worth $100k in Debt?

Postby upfish » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:21 pm

bk1 wrote:
upfish wrote:I don't care about BigLaw, but I feel like I might have to if I went to CU due to debt, and would love thoughts on that. Although, I figure it's pointless either way because CU isn't T14.

I'm fine working in Houston for 10 or so years if that's what's necessary. It's a nice place when you aren't outside from June-September.

I'm fine working in Colorado for awhile as well; it's just the initial opportunity cost that sucks.

If actual jobs matter most, what makes CU worth $60k more in debt? I've heard Denver's market is tight, so I feel like the actual jobs end of CU might somehow be worse than STCL because of Houston's legal market. :?


1. You won't need biglaw to pay off 100k in debt. You can manage paying that off with interest in 10 years even on a 40-50k starting salary.

2. Colorado may give you an edge in the PNW eventually but I bet that your job and connections are going to be far more important in helping land a job than whether you went to Colorado or STCL.

3. I never said that CU was worth $60k more than STCL. I said that Colorado was okay for $100k debt. Are things rosy for Colorado? Of course not but it's hard to imagine that things are that good for STCL either considering it sits behind a bunch of other schools. I'd pay the extra money at Colorado, but if your SO has a job in Houston then I say bite the bullet and stay near the SO for now so you can be bailed in the case that finding a full time legal job doesn't work out.



Thanks for the input, man. I also just reviewed my STCL scholly, and it's contingent on a 3.0. So maybe it is not the best choice after all if they curve hard, which I think is true?

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18422
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Colorado Worth $100k in Debt?

Postby bk1 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:36 pm

upfish wrote:Thanks for the input, man. I also just reviewed my STCL scholly, and it's contingent on a 3.0. So maybe it is not the best choice after all if they curve hard, which I think is true?


No problem. I've seen a lot of low ranked schools curve to around a B- (2.6-2.8) meaning that 3.0 could be as much as top 1/3 or top 1/4. I would ask them what they curve to.

My thoughts on Colorado vs STCL stems mainly from looking at the 2009 employment breakdown from USNWR. Colorado seems about as bad as northern CA (which is pretty bad). If I had to estimate by extrapolating from the 2009 numbers, I would say that unemployment/underemployment covers at least 1/3 of the class at Colorado if not more. Then again, since STCL is T4 it in all likelihood has worse stats then the schools ranked 80-100 and those schools look downright atrocious.

I know a few people who went to Santa Clara (a NorCal T2 that is probably worse than STCL, but to give you an idea) and they never ended up practicing law. I would honestly be afraid that if you went to STCL you would have to go back to your old profession. But, to be fair, I think that if you were below median at Colorado that things would start to look pretty sketch as well.

mrwarre85
Posts: 685
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:40 pm

Re: Colorado Worth $100k in Debt?

Postby mrwarre85 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:41 pm

upfish wrote:
bk1 wrote:
upfish wrote:I don't care about BigLaw, but I feel like I might have to if I went to CU due to debt, and would love thoughts on that. Although, I figure it's pointless either way because CU isn't T14.

I'm fine working in Houston for 10 or so years if that's what's necessary. It's a nice place when you aren't outside from June-September.

I'm fine working in Colorado for awhile as well; it's just the initial opportunity cost that sucks.

If actual jobs matter most, what makes CU worth $60k more in debt? I've heard Denver's market is tight, so I feel like the actual jobs end of CU might somehow be worse than STCL because of Houston's legal market. :?


1. You won't need biglaw to pay off 100k in debt. You can manage paying that off with interest in 10 years even on a 40-50k starting salary.

2. Colorado may give you an edge in the PNW eventually but I bet that your job and connections are going to be far more important in helping land a job than whether you went to Colorado or STCL.

3. I never said that CU was worth $60k more than STCL. I said that Colorado was okay for $100k debt. Are things rosy for Colorado? Of course not but it's hard to imagine that things are that good for STCL either considering it sits behind a bunch of other schools. I'd pay the extra money at Colorado, but if your SO has a job in Houston then I say bite the bullet and stay near the SO for now so you can be bailed in the case that finding a full time legal job doesn't work out.



Thanks for the input, man. I also just reviewed my STCL scholly, and it's contingent on a 3.0. So maybe it is not the best choice after all if they curve hard, which I think is true?



Yeah this needs to be looked into. CU is so much better than STCL its hard for me to give any advice on this. The quality of your education would even be different. . . I don't think that is generally the case between schools in the top couple tiers in terms of teaching, except that being around brighter students will push you and lead you to entertain ideas you wouldn't have come to on your own.

I can't believe you got into CU and not UH.. Numbers? Maybe UH was a yield protect. Send them a letter and say that if accepted you will withdraw from CU immediately.

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: Colorado Worth $100k in Debt?

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:42 pm

OP's GPA may have been a concern for Houston.

User avatar
upfish
Posts: 507
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:51 pm

Re: Colorado Worth $100k in Debt?

Postby upfish » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:08 pm

mrwarre85 wrote:Yeah this needs to be looked into. CU is so much better than STCL its hard for me to give any advice on this. The quality of your education would even be different. . . I don't think that is generally the case between schools in the top couple tiers in terms of teaching, except that being around brighter students will push you and lead you to entertain ideas you wouldn't have come to on your own.

I can't believe you got into CU and not UH.. Numbers? Maybe UH was a yield protect. Send them a letter and say that if accepted you will withdraw from CU immediately.


I sent them a LOCI near the end of March telling them that they were my top choice. I've drafted a second saying that I toured CU and would still prefer to stay in Houston despite CU's quality/programs/etc. Not sure when I should send it though? According to their website, they don't look at WL'd candidates until end of May-beginning of June.

CanadianWolf wrote:OP's GPA may have been a concern for Houston.


This is my best guess as well, but according to their statistics, 11 people with similar stats applied last year and 10 got in. I guess I'm the 1 that gets rejected this year?

mrwarre85
Posts: 685
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:40 pm

Re: Colorado Worth $100k in Debt?

Postby mrwarre85 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:22 pm

upfish wrote:
mrwarre85 wrote:Yeah this needs to be looked into. CU is so much better than STCL its hard for me to give any advice on this. The quality of your education would even be different. . . I don't think that is generally the case between schools in the top couple tiers in terms of teaching, except that being around brighter students will push you and lead you to entertain ideas you wouldn't have come to on your own.

I can't believe you got into CU and not UH.. Numbers? Maybe UH was a yield protect. Send them a letter and say that if accepted you will withdraw from CU immediately.


I sent them a LOCI near the end of March telling them that they were my top choice. I've drafted a second saying that I toured CU and would still prefer to stay in Houston despite CU's quality/programs/etc. Not sure when I should send it though? According to their website, they don't look at WL'd candidates until end of May-beginning of June.

CanadianWolf wrote:OP's GPA may have been a concern for Houston.


This is my best guess as well, but according to their statistics, 11 people with similar stats applied last year and 10 got in. I guess I'm the 1 that gets rejected this year?


What is your GPA? Sorry can't find your stats anywhere.

CU is usually way more GPA conscience than UH. UH has been an LSAT school. What are there medians now? A few years back they were like 161, 3.26

User avatar
upfish
Posts: 507
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:51 pm

Re: Colorado Worth $100k in Debt?

Postby upfish » Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:40 pm

mrwarre85 wrote:
What is your GPA? Sorry can't find your stats anywhere.

CU is usually way more GPA conscience than UH. UH has been an LSAT school. What are there medians now? A few years back they were like 161, 3.26


Sorry, missed this. 2.75/168.

So, there you go.

tittsburghfeelers
Posts: 108
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:03 am

Re: Colorado Worth $100k in Debt?

Postby tittsburghfeelers » Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:13 pm

upfish wrote:
mrwarre85 wrote:
What is your GPA? Sorry can't find your stats anywhere.

CU is usually way more GPA conscience than UH. UH has been an LSAT school. What are there medians now? A few years back they were like 161, 3.26


Sorry, missed this. 2.75/168.

So, there you go.


You have a 168 and got dinged at Houston? What other schools did you apply to? With a 168, you have to have better options than the two mentioned in your OP. If you don't have better options, I would definitely wait and reapply early next cycle. Apply to some splitter friendly schools and you should be in with $...... assuming that your LSAT isn't a typo.

User avatar
upfish
Posts: 507
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:51 pm

Re: Colorado Worth $100k in Debt?

Postby upfish » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:13 pm

tittsburghfeelers wrote:
upfish wrote:
mrwarre85 wrote:
What is your GPA? Sorry can't find your stats anywhere.

CU is usually way more GPA conscience than UH. UH has been an LSAT school. What are there medians now? A few years back they were like 161, 3.26


Sorry, missed this. 2.75/168.

So, there you go.


You have a 168 and got dinged at Houston? What other schools did you apply to? With a 168, you have to have better options than the two mentioned in your OP. If you don't have better options, I would definitely wait and reapply early next cycle. Apply to some splitter friendly schools and you should be in with $...... assuming that your LSAT isn't a typo.


LSAT is not a typo. I don't really want Northwestern or WUSTL or any of that. UH was my top choice because I have a great network in Houston and an SO with a great job w/benefits, so it would've been cheap and led to a great job.

Unless there are West Coast or possibly East Coast schools I could get into next cycle I kind of don't want to reapply. This was my reapply cycle. =(

Edit: was actually WL'd at UH, not dinged, but same difference I guess.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests