Duke vs. GULC

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Duke vs. GULC

Poll ended at Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:55 pm

GULC (106.5K in debt)
23
46%
Duke (135K in debt)
27
54%
 
Total votes: 50

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Redsgomarchingon
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Duke vs. GULC

Postby Redsgomarchingon » Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:21 am

If your goals are biglaw or an A3 clerkship, how much more, if anything, would you pay to attend Duke over GULC?

$80,000 more?

UPDATE: Duke has offered $72,000 total scholarship. So my estimated debt for each school:

GULC: $106.5K
Duke: $135K

I'm adding a poll
Last edited by Redsgomarchingon on Wed May 04, 2011 4:21 am, edited 2 times in total.

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bk1
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Re: Duke vs. GULC

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:33 am

At equal cost take Duke. With money take GULC.

A3 isn't likely out of either. Biglaw is definitely possible out of both with an appreciable edge to Duke, however not enough to justify paying 80k more at Duke.

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glewz
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Re: Duke vs. GULC

Postby glewz » Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:48 am

bk1 wrote:At equal cost take Duke. With money take GULC.

A3 isn't likely out of either. Biglaw is definitely possible out of both with an appreciable edge to Duke, however not enough to justify paying 80k more at Duke.


TITCR - 80k at GULC is a no brainer bro. And I can't imagine the Wash DC environment being unattractive. (and even if you disagree, 80k goes a long long way considering interest payments)

Enjoy GULC - great school without a doubt.

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Redsgomarchingon
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Re: Duke vs. GULC

Postby Redsgomarchingon » Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:56 am

bk1 wrote:At equal cost take Duke. With money take GULC.

A3 isn't likely out of either. Biglaw is definitely possible out of both with an appreciable edge to Duke, however not enough to justify paying 80k more at Duke.


yea I understand I'd have to be top 5% at GULC and top 10% at Duke for the A3, however it does knock out some of the competition for biglaw jobs. But to play devil's advocate, is it flawed to think that if 10% take A3 and 38% take biglaw at Duke, that means if I was a median student the probability of getting biglaw/A3 clerkship is actually in my favor? (assuming around 2% of top students select out for PI, academia, etc.) The chances at GULC are decent too, but not 50%. The percentage different is small, but from a probability standpoint somewhat significant...

Does anyone think Duke will have significant long term value over GULC?

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Mike12188
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Re: Duke vs. GULC

Postby Mike12188 » Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:24 am

Redsgomarchingon wrote:
bk1 wrote:At equal cost take Duke. With money take GULC.

A3 isn't likely out of either. Biglaw is definitely possible out of both with an appreciable edge to Duke, however not enough to justify paying 80k more at Duke.


yea I understand I'd have to be top 5% at GULC and top 10% at Duke for the A3, however it does knock out some of the competition for biglaw jobs. But to play devil's advocate, is it flawed to think that if 10% take A3 and 38% take biglaw at Duke, that means if I was a median student the probability of getting biglaw/A3 clerkship is actually in my favor? (assuming around 2% of top students select out for PI, academia, etc.) The chances at GULC are decent too, but not 50%. The percentage different is small, but from a probability standpoint somewhat significant...

Does anyone think Duke will have significant long term value over GULC?


From what I remember biglaw numbers are almost identical, so you think 5% is significant enough to justify 80k? I certainly don't. And I don't think it is safe to assume that 50% hired for A3/biglaw necessarily means top 50% although I'm sure the majority is.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Duke vs. GULC

Postby whymeohgodno » Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:28 am

GULC. Duke isn't worth 80k more than GULC.

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bk1
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Re: Duke vs. GULC

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:34 pm

Redsgomarchingon wrote:yea I understand I'd have to be top 5% at GULC and top 10% at Duke for the A3, however it does knock out some of the competition for biglaw jobs. But to play devil's advocate, is it flawed to think that if 10% take A3 and 38% take biglaw at Duke, that means if I was a median student the probability of getting biglaw/A3 clerkship is actually in my favor? (assuming around 2% of top students select out for PI, academia, etc.) The chances at GULC are decent too, but not 50%. The percentage different is small, but from a probability standpoint somewhat significant...

Does anyone think Duke will have significant long term value over GULC?


What do you mean it knocks out competition? Biglaw is going to be just as competitive at both places. If you were an around median Duke student you would have a fighting chance at biglaw. The thing to remember is that even if 50% of the class is capable of getting biglaw, that doesn't necessarily mean that it is the top 50%. As you get closer to median the line gets murkier and murkier as some below median students are snagging it over some above median students.

While Duke's biglaw placement for this past year has been poor, the reason I give Duke the edge is because Duke has been consistently better than GULC by a decent margin over the past half decade. While I like to think that GULC isn't as worse as people on TLS make it out to be (it does place significantly more in PI/gov than most of the T14), I'd still take Duke at equal cost. I'd estimate that Duke will probably give you an extra maybe 10% or so chance at biglaw but that does not justify paying 80k more at Duke.

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beachbum
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Re: Duke vs. GULC

Postby beachbum » Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:38 pm

bk1 wrote:I'd estimate that Duke will probably give you an extra maybe 10% or so chance at biglaw but that does not justify paying 80k more at Duke.


Yup. Enjoy DC.

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The Valkyrie
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Re: Duke vs. GULC

Postby The Valkyrie » Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:40 pm

Whichever is cheaper

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Bosque
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Re: Duke vs. GULC

Postby Bosque » Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:04 pm

beachbum wrote:
bk1 wrote:I'd estimate that Duke will probably give you an extra maybe 10% or so chance at biglaw but that does not justify paying 80k more at Duke.


Yup. Enjoy DC.


Alternatively though, did you beg for more money from Duke yet? Because I cannot really imagine them letting GULC outbid them by 80k.

If you have and they said no, enjoy DC.

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beachbum
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Re: Duke vs. GULC

Postby beachbum » Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:21 pm

Bosque wrote:
beachbum wrote:
bk1 wrote:I'd estimate that Duke will probably give you an extra maybe 10% or so chance at biglaw but that does not justify paying 80k more at Duke.


Yup. Enjoy DC.


Alternatively though, did you beg for more money from Duke yet? Because I cannot really imagine them letting GULC outbid them by 80k.

If you have and they said no, enjoy DC.


This is a great point. OP, I think I saw in another thread that you were just admitted to Duke from the waitlist. If this is the case, you must be assuming that they're not going to give you any money? Before you commit to GULC, fax in your scholarship form to Duke ASAP. It would also be a good idea to notify them of your GULC scholarship. FWIW, I was an ED applicant with borderline numbers, and Duke awarded me $8k/year. So conventional TLS wisdom (i.e. ED applicants and applicants accepted from the waitlist forfeit any scholarship money) might not always hold true.

Also, is the $80k figure based on total COA? Because living in Durham is going to be considerably cheaper than living in DC.

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Redsgomarchingon
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Re: Duke vs. GULC

Postby Redsgomarchingon » Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:47 pm

beachbum wrote:
Bosque wrote:
beachbum wrote:
bk1 wrote:I'd estimate that Duke will probably give you an extra maybe 10% or so chance at biglaw but that does not justify paying 80k more at Duke.


Yup. Enjoy DC.


Alternatively though, did you beg for more money from Duke yet? Because I cannot really imagine them letting GULC outbid them by 80k.

If you have and they said no, enjoy DC.


This is a great point. OP, I think I saw in another thread that you were just admitted to Duke from the waitlist. If this is the case, you must be assuming that they're not going to give you any money? Before you commit to GULC, fax in your scholarship form to Duke ASAP. It would also be a good idea to notify them of your GULC scholarship. FWIW, I was an ED applicant with borderline numbers, and Duke awarded me $8k/year. So conventional TLS wisdom (i.e. ED applicants and applicants accepted from the waitlist forfeit any scholarship money) might not always hold true.

Also, is the $80k figure based on total COA? Because living in Durham is going to be considerably cheaper than living in DC.


yea I just got in today luckily, super stoked. I told the dean about my GULC scholarship over the phone and he seemed pretty shocked haha.

GULC's COA was estimated at 70,500, so I multiplied that by 3 and got about 211.5K. Subtract my need/merit scholy of 105K, and I'm looking at around 106.5K total COA. Duke is estimated at 69K/yr, so that's around 207K total. I actually figured they'd give me at least 20K in need-based... which is how I got the 80K difference. But, I'm seeing a lot of people with my numbers get 54K, which would make Duke cost about 48K more than GULC

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bk1
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Re: Duke vs. GULC

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:31 pm

Redsgomarchingon wrote:GULC's COA was estimated at 70,500, so I multiplied that by 3 and got about 211.5K. Subtract my need/merit scholy of 105K, and I'm looking at around 106.5K total COA. Duke is estimated at 69K/yr, so that's around 207K total. I actually figured they'd give me at least 20K in need-based... which is how I got the 80K difference. But, I'm seeing a lot of people with my numbers get 54K, which would make Duke cost about 48K more than GULC


I'd still take GULC at 110k over Duke at 150k.

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The Gentleman
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Re: Duke vs. GULC

Postby The Gentleman » Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:35 pm

I just put 68k back into the pot at Duke today, so maybe you'll inherit some of it. But unless Duke is willing to up their offer by a lot, then go with the cash at GULC.

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Redsgomarchingon
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Re: Duke vs. GULC

Postby Redsgomarchingon » Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:56 pm

UPDATE: Duke has offered $72,000. Expected debt at each school:

GULC: $106.5K
Duke: $135K

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bk1
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Re: Duke vs. GULC

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:03 pm

Redsgomarchingon wrote:UPDATE: Duke has offered $72,000. Expected debt at each school:

GULC: $106.5K
Duke: $135K


I'd argue that that is pretty close. I think I would still take GULC (far easier to pay back the 30k less on a shitlaw salary) but I think you can make a good argument for either choice.

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beachbum
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Re: Duke vs. GULC

Postby beachbum » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:20 pm

Redsgomarchingon wrote:UPDATE: Duke has offered $72,000. Expected debt at each school:

GULC: $106.5K
Duke: $135K


Wow, congrats. Also, Duke. The jump in placement is worth $30k, particularly for your goals.

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Redsgomarchingon
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Re: Duke vs. GULC

Postby Redsgomarchingon » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:29 pm

beachbum wrote:
Redsgomarchingon wrote:UPDATE: Duke has offered $72,000. Expected debt at each school:

GULC: $106.5K
Duke: $135K


Wow, congrats. Also, Duke. The jump in placement is worth $30k, particularly for your goals.


thanks. definitely excited over the amounts offered by both Duke and GULC

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yngblkgifted
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Re: Duke vs. GULC

Postby yngblkgifted » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:31 pm

Redsgomarchingon wrote:
beachbum wrote:
Redsgomarchingon wrote:UPDATE: Duke has offered $72,000. Expected debt at each school:

GULC: $106.5K
Duke: $135K


Wow, congrats. Also, Duke. The jump in placement is worth $30k, particularly for your goals.


thanks. definitely excited over the amounts offered by both Duke and GULC


I'd still pick GULC, but that is just because of personal preference for the school. Nice options OP and Good luck with the decision!

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Redsgomarchingon
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Re: Duke vs. GULC

Postby Redsgomarchingon » Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:42 pm

yngblkgifted wrote:
I'd still pick GULC, but that is just because of personal preference for the school. Nice options OP and Good luck with the decision!


Thanks! ugh wish I could afford to visit the schools. Anyone able to comment on the social life in and around Durham?

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beachbum
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Re: Duke vs. GULC

Postby beachbum » Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:50 pm

Redsgomarchingon wrote:
yngblkgifted wrote:
I'd still pick GULC, but that is just because of personal preference for the school. Nice options OP and Good luck with the decision!


Thanks! ugh wish I could afford to visit the schools. Anyone able to comment on the social life in and around Durham?


This might be better answered in the "Hanging out on the Internet" thread, but my impression is that social life in Durham is mostly centered around bars/restaurants. There are several great dives (with a fantastic beer selection, if that's your thing) in the immediate area. If clubbing/dancing is your thing, Chapel Hill is 10 minutes away, and a lot of law students will head over there on weekends. So basically: Durham if you want to chill, have a few beers, and play pool, and Chapel Hill if you want a little more excitement.

There are also some fantastic apartment complexes in the area (complete with resort-style pools) that are great for apartment parties, hanging out/grilling, and pre-gaming.

This might also help: --LinkRemoved--

justhoping
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Re: Duke vs. GULC

Postby justhoping » Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:54 pm

how long do you have to decide for Duke? Did they extend your deposit deadline?
P.S. I didn't vote, since I couldn't even decide for myself.

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Redsgomarchingon
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Re: Duke vs. GULC

Postby Redsgomarchingon » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:09 pm

justhoping wrote:how long do you have to decide for Duke? Did they extend your deposit deadline?
P.S. I didn't vote, since I couldn't even decide for myself.


They told me I had to pay the deposit by May 3rd (so an extension of 4 days), but that's when it has to be "in" by, so I pretty much have till Saturday.

haha all my law school friends are splitting both ways. DC seems like such a fun place to live, but the small classes at Duke seem really appealing. GULC has a better youtube page, with plenty of shots of the school (for every season too), while for Duke I've only been able to find one video of the actual school and the rest are of projects the students are working on. (which is interesting in its own way)

I've even been reading up on their almuni. Richard Nixon said "I always remember that whatever I have done in the past or may do in the future, Duke University is responsible in one way or another." But I'm sure that would apply to any T14 for a student who graduates 3rd in the class

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Redsgomarchingon
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Re: Duke vs. GULC

Postby Redsgomarchingon » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:13 pm

beachbum wrote:
This might also help: --LinkRemoved--


this site is excellent. Thank you

justhoping
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Re: Duke vs. GULC

Postby justhoping » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:27 pm

Congrats by the way, forgot to say last time!

Wow that's not much of an extension. Good luck on deciding. I really don't think there's a wrong choice. Though I must say, I have never been a fan of a large class so I think I'd choose Duke if I were you. OR MAYBE GULC because for the past few days I've been trying to get the best loans and it's not fun. So I'll just vote after Duke's deadline (Apr.29 for me)....

I am actually torn between Duke and Cornell (withdrew from GULC today, they gave me $0 in aid...). Cornell being about 10k cheaper than Duke in 3 years but the even more important factor is that it's close to my parents home (5 hr drive is as close as I could get within T14).




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