Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

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ND with $$ or Minnesota with $$?

Notre Dame 20k/year scholarship
50
52%
Minnesota 22k/year scholarship
46
48%
 
Total votes: 96

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ndirish2010
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Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby ndirish2010 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:49 pm

Skyhook wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:
Skyhook wrote:The original Dawkins comment was to do with intolerance. As I said, it's perfectly clear why he wrote the God Delusion. You don't address this at all. Religion has an impact on day-to-day life, including science, with no basis other than "Because we said so because our ancient text says so".
Perhaps I'm misguided here, but shouldn't lawyers be looking to use evidence rather than revelation?

I think scientists, professionals who do careful analysis and use evidence, are well-placed to look into religion.
Besides, how is TGD vapid?

Why should OP shelve his atheist badge, if he even has one? Seems less apparent than someone wearing a crucifix.
Perhaps OP doesn't want to get into a slanging match with a professor on certain aspects of religion. Shit, OP is going to law school for a legal education/ to think like a lawyer/ to be in huge debt/ etc
I don't know the atmosphere at ND or Minn, but if ND doesn't feel right because the religious angle is pushed too much for OP, then OP shouldn't go.

And now we're back to the tolerance thing. Would going to ND make OP more tolerant?


Dawkins seems like a prick. I haven't read TGD, but based on interviews I have read with him I get the feeling that alot of his atheist crusade is really about feeding his narcissism. The irony to me is that the first bullet point of his movement for atheists to "come out" is to improve the public perception of atheism, but most of his actions are counterproductive to that aim because he is so intent on drawing a line in the sand.


At least you were honest on the first point.
Not sure how you go about justifying the second point.

But once again, the Dawkins rebuttal was to do with intolerance. Labeling people, such as OP, Dawkins, atheists in general, as intolerant was misleading and over the top.

To get back to the topic, anyone from ND Law, especially an atheist, care to chime in on the atmosphere there? Is the religious angle an issue?


I'm not religious at all and I'm a Double Domer and it's never been a problem. I love this school and would never have gone anywhere else. I'm pro-life, but not on religious grounds.

Skyhook
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Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby Skyhook » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:57 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:I'm not religious at all and I'm a Double Domer and it's never been a problem. I love this school and would never have gone anywhere else. I'm pro-life, but not on religious grounds.


Thanks for the input.
How does the catholic aspect of the university manifest itself at the Law School?

whymeohgodno
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Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby whymeohgodno » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:00 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:
Skyhook wrote:The original Dawkins comment was to do with intolerance. As I said, it's perfectly clear why he wrote the God Delusion. You don't address this at all. Religion has an impact on day-to-day life, including science, with no basis other than "Because we said so because our ancient text says so".
Perhaps I'm misguided here, but shouldn't lawyers be looking to use evidence rather than revelation?

I think scientists, professionals who do careful analysis and use evidence, are well-placed to look into religion.
Besides, how is TGD vapid?

Why should OP shelve his atheist badge, if he even has one? Seems less apparent than someone wearing a crucifix.
Perhaps OP doesn't want to get into a slanging match with a professor on certain aspects of religion. Shit, OP is going to law school for a legal education/ to think like a lawyer/ to be in huge debt/ etc
I don't know the atmosphere at ND or Minn, but if ND doesn't feel right because the religious angle is pushed too much for OP, then OP shouldn't go.

Really? I never got the narcissistic vibe from him. People who are as smart as he is probably come off as narcissistic though.
And now we're back to the tolerance thing. Would going to ND make OP more tolerant?


Dawkins seems like a prick. I haven't read TGD, but based on interviews I have read with him I get the feeling that alot of his atheist crusade is really about feeding his narcissism. The irony to me is that the first bullet point of his movement for atheists to "come out" is to improve the public perception of atheism, but most of his actions are counterproductive to that aim because he is so intent on drawing a line in the sand.

MyManKanye
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Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby MyManKanye » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:02 pm

Does it really even matter? No one is going to ask you to take communion there or ask you to recite scriptures or name the saints for an exam. If you don't believe in any religion than good for you, but I fail to see how being around other people who do would be a problem. Should not be an issue in choosing a school.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby whymeohgodno » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:02 pm

MyManKanye wrote:Does it really even matter? No one is going to ask you to take communion there or ask you to recite scriptures or name the saints for an exam. If you don't believe in any religion than good for you, but I fail to see how being around other people who do would be a problem. Should not be an issue in choosing a school.


BYU anyone?

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ndirish2010
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Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby ndirish2010 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:04 pm

Skyhook wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:I'm not religious at all and I'm a Double Domer and it's never been a problem. I love this school and would never have gone anywhere else. I'm pro-life, but not on religious grounds.


Thanks for the input.
How does the catholic aspect of the university manifest itself at the Law School?


Let's see...there's a chapel, but I've never been inside. There is a crucifix in every classroom. Some professors do the sign of the cross before class or say a prayer (NOT a majority, and if this was offensive to you then you might have a problem with a lot of things in the world). We offer more classes in ethics or integrating Catholic teachings with law...but they are NOT required.

I was raised Catholic and confirmed, but I haven't been to church since I was 14 and am very apathetic towards religion.

firemed
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Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby firemed » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:10 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:
Dawkins seems like a prick. I haven't read TGD, but based on interviews I have read with him I get the feeling that alot of his atheist crusade is really about feeding his narcissism. The irony to me is that the first bullet point of his movement for atheists to "come out" is to improve the public perception of atheism, but most of his actions are counterproductive to that aim because he is so intent on drawing a line in the sand.

MyManKanye
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Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby MyManKanye » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:11 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
MyManKanye wrote:Does it really even matter? No one is going to ask you to take communion there or ask you to recite scriptures or name the saints for an exam. If you don't believe in any religion than good for you, but I fail to see how being around other people who do would be a problem. Should not be an issue in choosing a school.


BYU anyone?


Even at BYU you shouldn't consider the religious associations over the academic merit. But, at ND its even less of an issue. The only reason I can think of that an atheist wouldn't be able to make it at ND would be if they were the kind of atheist that felt the need to "evangelize" others to their way. I usually find that if you don't spout your beliefs to others, that others will do the same to you.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby whymeohgodno » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:13 pm

MyManKanye wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
MyManKanye wrote:Does it really even matter? No one is going to ask you to take communion there or ask you to recite scriptures or name the saints for an exam. If you don't believe in any religion than good for you, but I fail to see how being around other people who do would be a problem. Should not be an issue in choosing a school.


BYU anyone?


Even at BYU you shouldn't consider the religious associations over the academic merit. But, at ND its even less of an issue. The only reason I can think of that an atheist wouldn't be able to make it at ND would be if they were the kind of atheist that felt the need to "evangelize" others to their way. I usually find that if you don't spout your beliefs to others, that others will do the same to you.


I agree with regards to ND. With regards to BYU, I'd have to disagree.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby ndirish2010 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:13 pm

Mormons are great people for the most part. I don't see why I wouldn't be able to co-exist with them.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby whymeohgodno » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:24 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:Mormons are great people for the most part. I don't see why I wouldn't be able to co-exist with them.


I could coexist. I just wouldn't feel comfortable with all those rules that they have, or is that only for undergrad?

firemed
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Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby firemed » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:30 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:Mormons are great people for the most part. I don't see why I wouldn't be able to co-exist with them.


I could coexist. I just wouldn't feel comfortable with all those rules that they have, or is that only for undergrad?



You mean you might want to have sex occasionally despite not wanting to put a ring on a finger? You're weird.

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beachbum
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Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby beachbum » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:30 pm

In all fairness, though, the best reason to attend BYU is because you're a Mormon and it's cheap as hell. I doubt the purveyance of religion there is a problem for most students.

In an effort to (temporarily) curb my snarkiness, I think the question of religion is much more applicable to schools like ND that take in a more diverse student body. (Of course, since the OP's actions and wording were dripping with arrogance and stubbornness, I felt justified in my previous dickery). But as ndirish said, I doubt religion is going to be a major stumbling point at ND- unless you want it to be. I would be surprised if there's much religious discussion in torts, Ks, conlaw, etc., and if you can't handle a couple religious symbols on the walls, then that's your deal. Speaking as someone who currently attends a Jesuit undergrad, religion is only going to be as big as you make it.

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bk1
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Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby bk1 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:40 pm

beachbum wrote:I doubt the purveyance of religion there is a problem for most students.


Isn't sex banned at BYU? I'd have a problem with that.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby whymeohgodno » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:41 pm

bk1 wrote:
beachbum wrote:I doubt the purveyance of religion there is a problem for most students.


Isn't sex banned at BYU? I'd have a problem with that.


I also believe beards are banned. I've also heard there's a ban on flip flops (lol?) but that may just be a rumor.

Skyhook
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Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby Skyhook » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:42 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:
Skyhook wrote:The original Dawkins comment was to do with intolerance. As I said, it's perfectly clear why he wrote the God Delusion. You don't address this at all. Religion has an impact on day-to-day life, including science, with no basis other than "Because we said so because our ancient text says so".
Perhaps I'm misguided here, but shouldn't lawyers be looking to use evidence rather than revelation?

I think scientists, professionals who do careful analysis and use evidence, are well-placed to look into religion.
Besides, how is TGD vapid?

Why should OP shelve his atheist badge, if he even has one? Seems less apparent than someone wearing a crucifix.
Perhaps OP doesn't want to get into a slanging match with a professor on certain aspects of religion. Shit, OP is going to law school for a legal education/ to think like a lawyer/ to be in huge debt/ etc
I don't know the atmosphere at ND or Minn, but if ND doesn't feel right because the religious angle is pushed too much for OP, then OP shouldn't go.

Really? I never got the narcissistic vibe from him. People who are as smart as he is probably come off as narcissistic though.
And now we're back to the tolerance thing. Would going to ND make OP more tolerant?


Dawkins seems like a prick. I haven't read TGD, but based on interviews I have read with him I get the feeling that alot of his atheist crusade is really about feeding his narcissism. The irony to me is that the first bullet point of his movement for atheists to "come out" is to improve the public perception of atheism, but most of his actions are counterproductive to that aim because he is so intent on drawing a line in the sand.


Guessing the bold italics were what you wanted to say.
Narcissim? I also do not think so. Don't really see how he is any more than a top scientist/well published author. And it wouldn't matter anyway. Seems like people cannot deal with the argument, and choose to throw out ad hominems as an apparent way of scoring points.

MyManKanye wrote:Does it really even matter? No one is going to ask you to take communion there or ask you to recite scriptures or name the saints for an exam. If you don't believe in any religion than good for you, but I fail to see how being around other people who do would be a problem. Should not be an issue in choosing a school.


Yes it does. The atmosphere of the school is going to be different, and it all depends on how those other people behave.
MyManKanye wrote:Even at BYU you shouldn't consider the religious associations over the academic merit. But, at ND its even less of an issue. The only reason I can think of that an atheist wouldn't be able to make it at ND would be if they were the kind of atheist that felt the need to "evangelize" others to their way. I usually find that if you don't spout your beliefs to others, that others will do the same to you.


How can you not consider the associations if they have an impact on the life of the school?

I find too many people are keen to spout their religious views.
I think we are into the season of "lay-preachers" standing outside Cooper Hall at USF in Tampa.
They do not give anyone a chance to avoid hearing their bigoted drivel.

I have no idea what ND is like. Neither does OP. That's why this thread is here.
Is ND mild-mannered? Can most people put up with it?
A lot of us have suggested visiting, but that doesn't stop anyone from asking for info prior to looking around. Asking for people's experiences seems a very positive thing to do... :roll:

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stratocophic
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Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby stratocophic » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:45 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
bk1 wrote:
beachbum wrote:I doubt the purveyance of religion there is a problem for most students.


Isn't sex banned at BYU? I'd have a problem with that.


I also believe beards are banned. I've also heard there's a ban on flip flops (lol?) but that may just be a rumor.
No flip flops?

Inhumane :evil:

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bk1
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Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby bk1 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:46 pm

Skyhook wrote:I think we are into the season of "lay-preachers" standing outside Cooper Hall at USF in Tampa.
They do not give anyone a chance to avoid hearing their bigoted drivel.


This is true at pretty much every university in America, even the very liberal ones. Maybe even moreso at the liberal ones because they have to try and save all the "rebellious women" from going to hell.

barry
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Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby barry » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:47 pm

OP and skyhook should go to ND, maybe they will learn to become more tolerant of people's religious beliefs

seriously though i could never go to Berk, i'd lose my mind so i can see where they are coming from

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ndirish2010
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Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby ndirish2010 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:47 pm

If you cannot deal with Notre Dame's religious aspect, then you are bordering on intolerant yourself.

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bk1
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Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby bk1 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:49 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:If you cannot deal with Notre Dame's religious aspect, then you are bordering on intolerant yourself.


There's a difference between not being capable and simply not wanting to.

czelede
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Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby czelede » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:53 pm

I know a handful of people who attended ND, and about two of them who attended ND Law. Of the ones around my age (C/O 2007-2010), the majority of them are fairly apathetic about religion despite that many of them were raised Catholic (like you, OP). They have a lot of school spirit and are some of the hardest partiers I know. In general I would be far more likely to find them passed out in a puddle of green puke than trying to discuss religion or politics with anyone (and biggest drunkard of these NDers is now in law school, so take that for what you will). The minority, however (two people I know) are staunch Catholics that attend anti-abortion rallies and constantly post things on FB from catholicvote.org, mainly anti-abortion/anti-PP articles (a lot of them largely wrong, lol) and stuff about how lightning striking the White House is related to Obama not recognizing Easter or something. They are nice people though, and I can't imagine that having to take torts with them would be too intolerable, particularly since your class would be tempered by people who are drawn to ND for the national prestige and sports teams.

ETA: In summary, I think you may be overblowing how many people will be trying to convert you in the ND classroom. Law tends to attract a lot of liberal people, and a lot of these people do attend ND. I don't think you would hate being there, but if you are annoyed by religious overtures and don't mind working in Minneapolis, Minnesota may be a better choice.
Last edited by czelede on Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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beachbum
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Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby beachbum » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:53 pm

bk1 wrote:
beachbum wrote:I doubt the purveyance of religion there is a problem for most students.


Isn't sex banned at BYU? I'd have a problem with that.


Then you're probably not a super-awesome Mormon.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby ndirish2010 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:54 pm

bk1 wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:If you cannot deal with Notre Dame's religious aspect, then you are bordering on intolerant yourself.


There's a difference between not being capable and simply not wanting to.


And the reason most people give for 'not wanting to' is because they believe they are intellectually superior to religious people and shouldn't have to be weighed down by their backwards beliefs. I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but every discussion I've ever had with an atheist talking about how I go to ND espouses this view.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby whymeohgodno » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:54 pm

beachbum wrote:
bk1 wrote:
beachbum wrote:I doubt the purveyance of religion there is a problem for most students.


Isn't sex banned at BYU? I'd have a problem with that.


Then you're probably not a super-awesome Mormon.


Says the virgin :D




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