Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

ND with $$ or Minnesota with $$?

Notre Dame 20k/year scholarship
50
52%
Minnesota 22k/year scholarship
46
48%
 
Total votes: 96

User avatar
quixotical
Posts: 386
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:44 pm

Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby quixotical » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:09 am

bernard97 wrote:
+1

You do come off as arrogant, whether you mean to or not. Especially when you started talking about a correlation between intelligence and atheism. No one asked and it didn't relate to anything that was being discussed. You just threw it in there to make it seem as though you were somehow superior for being atheist.


Actually, if you read my post, you'll see I mentioned it because another atheist/agnostic poster had reservations admitting to being a non-believer. I was simply assuring him/her that in academia you are more likely to encounter fellow atheists because atheism correlates positively with education and higher IQ. Please note I said correlates, not causes.

I don't see how stating demonstrable facts makes me sound superior. I never said *I* have a higher IQ or am better educated than a religious person. I think you totally missed the point of my comment, which was to say that being atheist is not as stigmatized in academia. Entire books have been written on why atheists tend to be persons of higher IQ/better educated, but here's an example of one study:

In 2008, intelligence researcher Helmuth Nyborg's results, published in the scientific journal Intelligence demonstrated that on average, Atheists scored 1.95 IQ points higher than Agnostics, 3.82 points higher than Liberal persuasions, and 5.89 IQ points higher than Dogmatic persuasions."I'm not saying that believing in God makes you dumber. My hypothesis is that people with a low intelligence are more easily drawn toward religions, which give answers that are certain, while people with a high intelligence are more skeptical," says the professor.

HeavenWood
Posts: 2915
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby HeavenWood » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:14 am

quixotical wrote:
In 2008, intelligence researcher Helmuth Nyborg's results, published in the scientific journal Intelligence demonstrated that on average, Atheists scored 1.95 IQ points higher than Agnostics, 3.82 points higher than Liberal persuasions, and 5.89 IQ points higher than Dogmatic persuasions."I'm not saying that believing in God makes you dumber. My hypothesis is that people with a low intelligence are more easily drawn toward religions, which give answers that are certain, while people with a high intelligence are more skeptical," says the professor.


Followup question: How does religiosity relate to LSAT scores? I bet that on average, atheists score 1.27 points higher than evangelicals.

User avatar
quixotical
Posts: 386
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:44 pm

Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby quixotical » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:21 am

firemed wrote:Simply saying "Hey, I hear it won't be so bad... but I think I might be more comfortable in MN" is preferable to discussing papal infallibility and other red herrings to what is ultimately a personal decision for you that really has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with your comfort level. And there is nothing wrong with just saying "Hey, I am not comfortable". I don't think anyone would fault you on that.

Instead you have spent several pages talking about how you are "right" to be concerned because of this, that, and the other things that Christians and Catholics have done/positions they hold. See the difference?


I really don't understand where you're coming from with this post. I specifically asked about how Catholic affiliation affects profs and fellow students in the classroom, where positions they hold on important LEGAL questions could be influenced by their religion and a desire to shape the law to fit their religious beliefs which, IMO, are violations of human rights. How is this NOT relevant, especially since I'm looking to go into PI work/human rights? I specifically mention abortion rights and gay rights as being big issues for me that I'm passionate about. I am just asking questions/getting clarification on ND's atmosphere so I can determine whether or not I would be uncomfortable.

And for what it's worth, I specifically said (several times, in fact) that I didn't want this thread to turn into a debate on religion. I really regret that it has, because I am genuinely interested in the answers to my question regarding how to compare MN and ND given the scholarship info and my personal goals.

splitmuch
Posts: 968
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby splitmuch » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:26 am

Im pro choice and pro gay marriage and made it through ND undergrad (much more overly religious than the law school) just fine. This thread is a flame or the OP is stupid.
Last edited by splitmuch on Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
quixotical
Posts: 386
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:44 pm

Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby quixotical » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:30 am

HeavenWood wrote:
quixotical wrote:
In 2008, intelligence researcher Helmuth Nyborg's results, published in the scientific journal Intelligence demonstrated that on average, Atheists scored 1.95 IQ points higher than Agnostics, 3.82 points higher than Liberal persuasions, and 5.89 IQ points higher than Dogmatic persuasions."I'm not saying that believing in God makes you dumber. My hypothesis is that people with a low intelligence are more easily drawn toward religions, which give answers that are certain, while people with a high intelligence are more skeptical," says the professor.


Followup question: How does religiosity relate to LSAT scores? I bet that on average, atheists score 1.27 points higher than evangelicals.


Compare median LSAT scores of atheist havens (the heathens at Yale) with LSAT scores of evangelical havens (BYU, American, Regent).

User avatar
beachbum
Posts: 2766
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:35 pm

Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby beachbum » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:31 am

--ImageRemoved--

Also,

beachbum wrote:enjoy Minny and stfu.

User avatar
Kabuo
Posts: 1114
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:53 am

Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby Kabuo » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:32 am

splitmuch wrote:Im pro choice and pro gay marriage and made it through ND undergrad just fine. This thread is a flame or the OP is stupid.


Must be a flame because OP is an atheist. Right?

HeavenWood
Posts: 2915
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby HeavenWood » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:33 am

quixotical wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
quixotical wrote:
In 2008, intelligence researcher Helmuth Nyborg's results, published in the scientific journal Intelligence demonstrated that on average, Atheists scored 1.95 IQ points higher than Agnostics, 3.82 points higher than Liberal persuasions, and 5.89 IQ points higher than Dogmatic persuasions."I'm not saying that believing in God makes you dumber. My hypothesis is that people with a low intelligence are more easily drawn toward religions, which give answers that are certain, while people with a high intelligence are more skeptical," says the professor.


Followup question: How does religiosity relate to LSAT scores? I bet that on average, atheists score 1.27 points higher than evangelicals.


Compare median LSAT scores of atheist havens (the heathens at Yale) with LSAT scores of evangelical havens (BYU, American, Regent).


This is a loaded metric. There are plenty of secular schools at the bottom (and a fair share of religious schools toward the top). The end result will doubtlessly be slanted in favor of the atheists, but probably not by a large margin. Also, in what universe is American an evangelical haven?
Last edited by HeavenWood on Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
quixotical
Posts: 386
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:44 pm

Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby quixotical » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:33 am

splitmuch wrote:Im pro choice and pro gay marriage and made it through ND undergrad (much more overly religious than the law school) just fine. This thread is a flame or the OP is stupid.


O rly? Did your undergrad experience focus on the legal issues surrounding marriage and abortion rights?

Regardless, your comment is anecdotal. I know someone who transferred out of ND undergrad because they became uncomfortable with the religious atmosphere. Simply because you "made it through" ND doesn't have any bearing on whether or not I would want to choose to "make it through" ND over MN.

splitmuch
Posts: 968
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby splitmuch » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:34 am

Kabuo wrote:
splitmuch wrote:Im pro choice and pro gay marriage and made it through ND undergrad just fine. This thread is a flame or the OP is stupid.


Must be a flame because OP is an atheist. Right?


Serious LR skillz right there lol. Just outted yourself as an atheist too.

User avatar
quixotical
Posts: 386
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:44 pm

Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby quixotical » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:35 am

HeavenWood wrote:
This is a loaded metric. There are plenty of secular schools at the bottom (and a fair share of religious schools toward the top). Also, in what universe is American an evangelical haven?


It was a joke. I thought that was clear?

Anyway, you're right, take off American, I don't need it anyway... Pat Robertson's school is enough.

HeavenWood
Posts: 2915
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby HeavenWood » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:36 am

quixotical wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
This is a loaded metric. There are plenty of secular schools at the bottom (and a fair share of religious schools toward the top). Also, in what universe is American an evangelical haven?


It was a joke. I thought that was clear?

Anyway, you're right, take off American, I don't need it anyway... Pat Robertson's school is enough.


I bet Cooley has the most atheists of any American law school.

bernard97
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:06 pm

Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby bernard97 » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:38 am

You obviously want people to tell you Notre Dame is awful so you can go to Minnesota.

Notre Dame Law School is full of conservative Catholics who hate gays, love guns, and hate abortion. They are 100% intolerant of people who are different from them and will burn you at the stake if you mention your atheism within their sacred school. Oh, and women suck too.

User avatar
Knock
Posts: 5152
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:09 pm

Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby Knock » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:38 am

quixotical wrote:
splitmuch wrote:Im pro choice and pro gay marriage and made it through ND undergrad (much more overly religious than the law school) just fine. This thread is a flame or the OP is stupid.


O rly? Did your undergrad experience focus on the legal issues surrounding marriage and abortion rights?

Regardless, your comment is anecdotal. I know someone who transferred out of ND undergrad because they became uncomfortable with the religious atmosphere. Simply because you "made it through" ND doesn't have any bearing on whether or not I would want to choose to "make it through" ND over MN.


You made this thread to get anecdotal comments.

User avatar
quixotical
Posts: 386
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:44 pm

Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby quixotical » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:38 am

HeavenWood wrote:
quixotical wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
This is a loaded metric. There are plenty of secular schools at the bottom (and a fair share of religious schools toward the top). Also, in what universe is American an evangelical haven?


It was a joke. I thought that was clear?

Anyway, you're right, take off American, I don't need it anyway... Pat Robertson's school is enough.


I bet Cooley has the most atheists of any American law school.


That's cool, proves my point... they're #2 after Harvard rite?

User avatar
quixotical
Posts: 386
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:44 pm

Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby quixotical » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:39 am

Knock wrote:
quixotical wrote:
splitmuch wrote:Im pro choice and pro gay marriage and made it through ND undergrad (much more overly religious than the law school) just fine. This thread is a flame or the OP is stupid.


O rly? Did your undergrad experience focus on the legal issues surrounding marriage and abortion rights?

Regardless, your comment is anecdotal. I know someone who transferred out of ND undergrad because they became uncomfortable with the religious atmosphere. Simply because you "made it through" ND doesn't have any bearing on whether or not I would want to choose to "make it through" ND over MN.


You made this thread to get anecdotal comments.


True. Although I wanted *relevant* anecdotal comments, not asinine ones. Should have made that clear.

User avatar
Knock
Posts: 5152
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:09 pm

Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby Knock » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:40 am

quixotical wrote:
Knock wrote:
quixotical wrote:
splitmuch wrote:Im pro choice and pro gay marriage and made it through ND undergrad (much more overly religious than the law school) just fine. This thread is a flame or the OP is stupid.


O rly? Did your undergrad experience focus on the legal issues surrounding marriage and abortion rights?

Regardless, your comment is anecdotal. I know someone who transferred out of ND undergrad because they became uncomfortable with the religious atmosphere. Simply because you "made it through" ND doesn't have any bearing on whether or not I would want to choose to "make it through" ND over MN.


You made this thread to get anecdotal comments.


True. Although I wanted *relevant* anecdotal comments, not asinine ones. Should have made that clear.


How is that not a relevant anecdotal comment?

User avatar
beachbum
Posts: 2766
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:35 pm

Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby beachbum » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:41 am

My undergrad is Jesuit and my law school has strong ties to the Methodist Church. FML.

HeavenWood
Posts: 2915
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby HeavenWood » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:41 am

quixotical wrote:
Knock wrote:
quixotical wrote:
splitmuch wrote:Im pro choice and pro gay marriage and made it through ND undergrad (much more overly religious than the law school) just fine. This thread is a flame or the OP is stupid.


O rly? Did your undergrad experience focus on the legal issues surrounding marriage and abortion rights?

Regardless, your comment is anecdotal. I know someone who transferred out of ND undergrad because they became uncomfortable with the religious atmosphere. Simply because you "made it through" ND doesn't have any bearing on whether or not I would want to choose to "make it through" ND over MN.


You made this thread to get anecdotal comments.


True. Although I wanted *relevant* anecdotal comments, not asinine ones. Should have made that clear.


Opinions which contradict your own are not necessarily asinine. HTH.

splitmuch
Posts: 968
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby splitmuch » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:42 am

quixotical wrote:
splitmuch wrote:Im pro choice and pro gay marriage and made it through ND undergrad (much more overly religious than the law school) just fine. This thread is a flame or the OP is stupid.


O rly? Did your undergrad experience focus on the legal issues surrounding marriage and abortion rights?

Regardless, your comment is anecdotal. I know someone who transferred out of ND undergrad because they became uncomfortable with the religious atmosphere. Simply because you "made it through" ND doesn't have any bearing on whether or not I would want to choose to "make it through" ND over MN.


You come to anonymous message board seeking input on the environment at a school and object to anecdotal evidence? Odd.

Your friend sounds like an insecure twerp with limited social skills who can't handle being around people who are different from him. Yeah there are religous people there but its much more focused on "doing good" in the world than specific religous beliefs. Especially at the law school, the environment is much more focused on being an "ethical" lawyer than being a master of canonical law.

Also, how many classes of your law school experience do you actually expect to focus on marriage and abortion rights?

If you are really torn by this decision there is really only one response. ND will be better for your career prospects (outside of minnesota) and you should visit to see if you can actually handle the atmosphere.

User avatar
quixotical
Posts: 386
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:44 pm

Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby quixotical » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:43 am

Knock wrote:How is that not a relevant anecdotal comment?


It wasn't about the law school, it was about ND's undergrad.

HeavenWood
Posts: 2915
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby HeavenWood » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:43 am

quixotical wrote:
Knock wrote:How is that not a relevant anecdotal comment?


It wasn't about the law school, it was about ND's undergrad.


Law schools exist in vacuums.

User avatar
Knock
Posts: 5152
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:09 pm

Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby Knock » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:43 am

quixotical wrote:
Knock wrote:How is that not a relevant anecdotal comment?


It wasn't about the law school, it was about ND's undergrad.


splitmuch wrote:I'm pro choice and pro gay marriage and made it through ND undergrad (much more overly religious than the law school) just fine.

User avatar
quixotical
Posts: 386
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:44 pm

Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby quixotical » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:46 am

Knock wrote:
quixotical wrote:
Knock wrote:How is that not a relevant anecdotal comment?


It wasn't about the law school, it was about ND's undergrad.


splitmuch wrote:I'm pro choice and pro gay marriage and made it through ND undergrad (much more overly religious than the law school) just fine.


It was edited. I read the original post which didn't include that gem.

splitmuch
Posts: 968
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Atheist at Notre Dame with $$ instead of Minnesota with $$?

Postby splitmuch » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:46 am

quixotical wrote:
Knock wrote:How is that not a relevant anecdotal comment?


It wasn't about the law school, it was about ND's undergrad.


Right, but if you accept as a premise that the law school is less overly religous than the undergrad, and that a pro gay marriage and pro choice person can make it through the undergrad just fine, you would conclude that one of similar beliefs could also make it through the law school.

Changing advice to you should work on reading comprehension and logical reasoning skills, retake the LSAT, and try to go to a real (T14) school.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests