OSU vs CWRU

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DorothyV
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OSU vs CWRU

Postby DorothyV » Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:32 pm

Hi everyone,

I need some advice from people with knowledge about OSU and CWRU's placement in the Ohio legal market.

I am a native Clevelander and will most likely practice law in Cleveland. I have no interest in Big Law and my number one concern is finding secure employment after graduation.

After scholarship deductions, I would be taking out the following amounts in loans:

CWRU: 20K per year / 60k total

OSU: 40K per year / 120K total

Does OSU's higher ranking translate into better placement in Cleveland and is it worth the extra 60K in debt?

Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

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Kabuo
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Re: OSU vs CWRU

Postby Kabuo » Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:52 pm

0L here, but I did interview with a partner at Thompson Hine for one of my applications. I know you're not interested in biglaw, but perhaps what she said will hold true across other types of employment. She said that Case used to rule Cleveland, but that now it's gotten a lot rougher for them. I've also talked to at least a dozen practicing attorneys and judges in NE/Central Ohio, mostly from helping out with a HS mock trial team this last year, and they've all told me that OSU is king of OH.

That said, I think the economy is getting better, and if you're positive you want Cleveland, I think Case at half the price makes a lot more sense than OSU at 120k. 120k is almost the type of debt that will force you to consider biglaw, whereas 60 seems pretty manageable with any legal employment. Watch out for Scholly stipulations though.

Case2L
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Re: OSU vs CWRU

Postby Case2L » Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:34 pm

OSU is the better school, but I don't think it's worth it to pay twice as much as Case. I'd choose Case in this situation.

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DorothyV
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Re: OSU vs CWRU

Postby DorothyV » Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:30 pm

Thanks for both of your replies!

To renew the scholarship at CWRU I need a 3.15 GPA. Do either of you know how that translates toward class rank?

I graduated from OSU undergrad with a 3.8+ GPA, but I know that my performance in humanities courses during college won't necessarily predict my GPA in law school.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: OSU vs CWRU

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:34 pm

DorothyV wrote:Thanks for both of your replies!

To renew the scholarship at CWRU I need a 3.15 GPA. Do either of you know how that translates toward class rank?

I graduated from OSU undergrad with a 3.8+ GPA, but I know that my performance in humanities courses during college won't necessarily predict my GPA in law school.


Ask 2L''s at case. I'm sure there is someway you can reach them (admitted students programs?).

Anyway, it's probably at least median.

Assuming you lost your scholarship, what with the difference between loans for the schools be?

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The Gentleman
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Re: OSU vs CWRU

Postby The Gentleman » Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:41 pm

DorothyV wrote:To renew the scholarship at CWRU I need a 3.15 GPA. Do either of you know how that translates toward class rank?


1L classes at CWRU curve to a 3.0. So a 3.15 would be roughly top 40-45%.

EDIT: This is what a friend told me. He's a 2L.

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patrickd139
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Re: OSU vs CWRU

Postby patrickd139 » Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:57 pm

What are the stips for the OSU scholly? 3.15 is doable, but still rough to have for stips on a scholarship to CWRU, especially considering it is apparently a distant second to OSU.

Is sitting out, retaking and reapplying an option? Also, have you tried leveraging your CWRU scholly against the OSU one?

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Patriot1208
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Re: OSU vs CWRU

Postby Patriot1208 » Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:58 pm

Nvm I guess you are referencing total COA.

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DorothyV
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Re: OSU vs CWRU

Postby DorothyV » Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:08 pm

Thanks for the additional responses! If I lost the Case scholarship, the costs would be roughly equal at the two schools.

The OSU scholarship is only 5K per year and renewable with a 2.5 GPA. Also, I live pretty frugally so I could get by on much less than the estimated 17K per year living expenses there.

The CWRU scholarship is 26K per year. I need a 3.15 GPA for full renewal, 2.80 - 3.14 GPA for renewal of half the amount, and I will lose the scholarship if my GPA is less than 2.80. My parents live 20 minutes from the Case campus, so I will be paying no living expenses.

I am also waiting to see if I receive a public service full-tuition scholarship good for all three years at Case.


Patrick,
I have already taken the LSAT three times with declining results (161,160,158). I suck at standardized tests. I haven't yet tried leveraging my CWRU scholarship against the OSU one. How would I go about doing that, and is it often successful?

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: OSU vs CWRU

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:21 pm

The fact that you can stay at home for Case makes things a little more complicated. Combine that with the fact that you want Cleveland is ahhh....

Do you have any particularly connections (through family) that can almost guarantee you a job outside of which law school you pick (in Cleveland)? If so, Case. Period. If not, I'm really not sure. True, Ohio State is better than Case. But Ohio State isn't T14 or anything (no offense) - and so the differences between the two schools may not be as large as people perceive them to be.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: OSU vs CWRU

Postby JamMasterJ » Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:27 pm

DorothyV wrote:
Patrick,
I have already taken the LSAT three times with declining results (161,160,158). I suck at standardized tests. I haven't yet tried leveraging my CWRU scholarship against the OSU one. How would I go about doing that, and is it often successful?


send them an email with the Case scholarship (you can just link the email that Case sent you). It really depends on the school whether you'll be successful. OSU seems fairly stingy, they wouldn't guarantee my scholarship if I defer, but that doesn't mean that they won't work with you. There's a thread about scholarship negotiations with an outline for what yo say in your letter/email. It's really not that complicated, more a matter of how much the school wants you and how the school treats noegotiations

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DorothyV
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Re: OSU vs CWRU

Postby DorothyV » Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:04 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:The fact that you can stay at home for Case makes things a little more complicated. Combine that with the fact that you want Cleveland is ahhh....

Do you have any particularly connections (through family) that can almost guarantee you a job outside of which law school you pick (in Cleveland)? If so, Case. Period. If not, I'm really not sure. True, Ohio State is better than Case. But Ohio State isn't T14 or anything (no offense) - and so the differences between the two schools may not be as large as people perceive them to be.


I actually would love to get out of Cleveland, but I have a parent with health problems who doesn't want me to leave.

I don't have any lawyers in my family, so I am going to need to make connections in law school activities / internships.

JamMasterJ,

Thanks for the info! I will check out that thread and give it a try.

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buckilaw
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Re: OSU vs CWRU

Postby buckilaw » Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:32 pm

OSU places much better than Case. I've talked to a few partners at various OH lawfirms and they basically told me that they would go significantly deeper into OSU's class than any other Ohio law school. That being said, as a native of Northeast OH I find Columbus to be >>>>>>> Cleveland in regards to quality of life. (Sole exception being that Columbus does not have a Swenson's).

However, since you don't want biglaw keeping your debt to a minimum is crucial. I'd pick Case, if and only if, you can get the GPA stipulations removed from your scholarship.

Finally, I'm not sure if you consider firms like Porter Wright, Thompson Hine, Vorys and the like to be biglaw or midlaw, you should clarify this since OSU has a significant advantage with these firms.

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mcubberly
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Re: OSU vs CWRU

Postby mcubberly » Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:56 pm

OSU DOES NOT negotiate. I had two scholarships from higher ranked schools, and they didn't even consider working with me. It's very frustrating, and may lead to a different school choice for me -.-.

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DorothyV
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Re: OSU vs CWRU

Postby DorothyV » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:19 pm

buckilaw wrote:
Finally, I'm not sure if you consider firms like Porter Wright, Thompson Hine, Vorys and the like to be biglaw or midlaw, you should clarify this since OSU has a significant advantage with these firms.


I'm actually not opposed to biglaw, I just wanted to point out that a huge salary isn't my primary motivation for becoming a lawyer and I think I could be very happy living on a yearly salary of under six figures.

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: OSU vs CWRU

Postby Lawl Shcool » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:22 pm

CSU with a full ride seems like the best bet here.

Case2L
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Re: OSU vs CWRU

Postby Case2L » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:32 am

I think 3.15 is median, maybe slightly above. That is a pretty harsh stipulation; one bad semster and you could end up paying as much as OSU. Any chance you can use your OSU admission to get a better deal out of Case? You can save money by living at home, and you are okay with living and working in Cleveland, so I still think Case is the better choice, but I would talk to Case about that scholarship.

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DorothyV
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Re: OSU vs CWRU

Postby DorothyV » Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:29 am

Case2L wrote:I think 3.15 is median, maybe slightly above. That is a pretty harsh stipulation; one bad semster and you could end up paying as much as OSU. Any chance you can use your OSU admission to get a better deal out of Case? You can save money by living at home, and you are okay with living and working in Cleveland, so I still think Case is the better choice, but I would talk to Case about that scholarship.


The first seat deposit and scholarship acceptance form were due at Case before I received my OSU acceptance, so I have already sent those in. (I still have about two weeks before the deposit is due at OSU). Because of this, do you think Case would still consider changing the stipulations? I plan on visiting the school in the next week. Should I bring it up with an admissions counselor then?

My GPA and LSAT put me in the top 25% of the incoming class at Case, so I am not massively worried about the possibility of losing the scholarship. The award letter states that I must maintain a "3.15 cumulative GPA in each academic year" and that I can regain it for the third year even if I lose it for the second one.

I should find out in 9 days whether I will receive the full-tuition public service scholarship from Case. If I do, I will definitely go there.

Thanks for your thoughts Case2L!

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DorothyV
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Re: OSU vs CWRU

Postby DorothyV » Tue May 10, 2011 4:43 pm

I have made my decision and want to thank everyone for their suggestions.

Case increased my scholarship offer to $30k/year and the new dean just ordered that the stipulation for all merit scholarships will now be a 2.33 GPA. I have decided to attend CWRU, as it is all but certain that I will only have to pay $15k/year there.

Case2L
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Re: OSU vs CWRU

Postby Case2L » Tue May 10, 2011 9:25 pm

DorothyV wrote:I have made my decision and want to thank everyone for their suggestions.

Case increased my scholarship offer to $30k/year and the new dean just ordered that the stipulation for all merit scholarships will now be a 2.33 GPA. I have decided to attend CWRU, as it is all but certain that I will only have to pay $15k/year there.


Congrats - that's a pretty good deal. It's nice to see the new dean is already making some smart moves to upgrade the incoming class.




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