CCNMV Comparison

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lzyovrachievr
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby lzyovrachievr » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:40 pm

handlesthetruth wrote:awesome work thank you!

anyone else read this and think chicago should be ranked number 4?

Chicago does extremely well in the kind of stuff reflected in the research I did: academia, clerkships, biglaw employment, etc. And I think Leiter's rankings are very fair. Chicago is legitimately awesome. The one issue, which they are trying to address, is PI. Their LRAP is amazing now, and I think they are working on getting more people that focus on PI in their career services office. But they placed one person in 2009 in PI, according to their own data, which seems pretty low to me.

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handlesthetruth
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby handlesthetruth » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:41 pm

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Last edited by handlesthetruth on Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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lzyovrachievr
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby lzyovrachievr » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:48 pm

handlesthetruth wrote:It is low, yes. But are we really going to assume that the best of these schools at academia and SC clerkships couldn't get someone into PIif they wanted it? Self selection FTW.

Self-selection + Culture at Chi isn't geared to PI + Resources were not amazing before

The first two are similar, but even people that want to do PI might wind up not doing it because the other 170 people in the class are going through OCI and when you have that many people doing something, it tends to pervade the ethos of the school. Plus, their resources for it until recently weren't amazing (due in part to the first two factors), but that will begin to happen. Also, I'm not sure on their curriculum, but I'd doubt it was PI heavy.

This isn't to say that people couldn't have gotten into PI before, just that it's a little more nuanced than pure self-selection.

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Non-Chalant1
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby Non-Chalant1 » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:50 pm

lzyovrachievr wrote:
handlesthetruth wrote:awesome work thank you!

anyone else read this and think chicago should be ranked number 4?

Chicago does extremely well in the kind of stuff reflected in the research I did: academia, clerkships, biglaw employment, etc. And I think Leiter's rankings are very fair. Chicago is legitimately awesome. The one issue, which they are trying to address, is PI. Their LRAP is amazing now, and I think they are working on getting more people that focus on PI in their career services office. But they placed one person in 2009 in PI, according to their own data, which seems pretty low to me.

Their LRAP is the worst of any other school that can be argued as top 5 or us consistentky ranked as such. But yeah....if not for PI then I might be headed there.

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lzyovrachievr
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby lzyovrachievr » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:52 pm

Non-Chalant1 wrote:Their LRAP is the worst of any other school that can be argued as top 5 or us consistentky ranked as such. But yeah....if not for PI then I might be headed there.

I've heard that they just re-did it and it's awesome. Is that not true?

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Excellence = a Habit
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby Excellence = a Habit » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:58 pm

lzyovrachievr wrote:
Non-Chalant1 wrote:Their LRAP is the worst of any other school that can be argued as top 5 or us consistentky ranked as such. But yeah....if not for PI then I might be headed there.

I've heard that they just re-did it and it's awesome. Is that not true?


I have heard both this and the exact opposite - they redid it but it still sucks. I'm not sure which is correct.

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Xifeng
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby Xifeng » Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:31 pm

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Last edited by Xifeng on Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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lzyovrachievr
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby lzyovrachievr » Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:35 pm

Xifeng wrote: But I intend to stay in Chicago after graduation so that was another reason I chose Chicago.

New York will miss you.

jaymoney
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby jaymoney » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:30 am

Nice chart! I should note though, at Uchicago we actually do have small sections of 30 people each. :) Not that this is such a crucial point.

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Non-Chalant1
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby Non-Chalant1 » Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:50 am

Xifeng wrote:Basically, NYU's LRAP is still probably better, but Chicago's is MUCH better. Plus they now offer guaranteed summer funding for 1L and 2L year (which they didn't used to do before). Chicago's new LRAP is if you make under $80k (they don't care about assets or your spouse's income, just YOUR income) then they pay your IBR payments for you. This is obviously tied to IBR.

Again, WAY better than before. And I personally am going to do PI and am going to Chicago, and after talking to people there I feel comfortable doing this because they really seem to be putting a lot of money and people on the PI front. But I intend to stay in Chicago after graduation so that was another reason I chose Chicago.

It's better, but not to the extent that NYU and Columbia's is at...not at all. If I read it right you're screwed if you don't stay in PI for 10 years. I mean if you really love Chicago and you're sure on that front then by all means go ahead. But the PI resources are not there yet. They are focusing on them now so if you want to be part of its development and get all that attention then I can see that. But why risk that when the resources are already established at NYU/CLS (and probably the former in particular)? When you look at the clinicals/externships, etc., then the choice should be obvious. I mean CLS and NYU have established externships with EDNY and SDNY if the guy's talking prosecution. I can see how wanting to stay in Chicago would change your mind. I thought I'd be going there at one point (my Lupe avatar is because of that).

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Xifeng
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby Xifeng » Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:42 am

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Last edited by Xifeng on Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Non-Chalant1
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby Non-Chalant1 » Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:59 am

Xifeng wrote:
Non-Chalant1 wrote:
Xifeng wrote:Basically, NYU's LRAP is still probably better, but Chicago's is MUCH better. Plus they now offer guaranteed summer funding for 1L and 2L year (which they didn't used to do before). Chicago's new LRAP is if you make under $80k (they don't care about assets or your spouse's income, just YOUR income) then they pay your IBR payments for you. This is obviously tied to IBR.

Again, WAY better than before. And I personally am going to do PI and am going to Chicago, and after talking to people there I feel comfortable doing this because they really seem to be putting a lot of money and people on the PI front. But I intend to stay in Chicago after graduation so that was another reason I chose Chicago.

It's better, but not to the extent that NYU and Columbia's is at...not at all. If I read it right you're screwed if you don't stay in PI for 10 years. I mean if you really love Chicago and you're sure on that front then by all means go ahead. But the PI resources are not there yet. They are focusing on them now so if you want to be part of its development and get all that attention then I can see that. But why risk that when the resources are already established at NYU/CLS (and probably the former in particular)? When you look at the clinicals/externships, etc., then the choice should be obvious. I mean CLS and NYU have established externships with EDNY and SDNY if the guy's talking prosecution. I can see how wanting to stay in Chicago would change your mind. I thought I'd be going there at one point (my Lupe avatar is because of that).


Well in my specific case, I didn't have CLS as an option and Chicago gave me MUCH more money than NYU. So for me in particular, Chicago was the right choice even with my PI interest. Obviously I wouldn't advocate someone choosing Chicago when they got more money elsewhere, or maybe even all things equal right now.

But at least Chicago is now making an effort to improve its PI stuff! :D

I got love for the Chi no doubt you'll have a great time.




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