CCNMV Comparison

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lzyovrachievr
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CCNMV Comparison

Postby lzyovrachievr » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:47 am

Back in February when I was considering all of these schools, I made a chart that truthfully wasn't all that helpful to me because it continually proved that each of the schools was a great school that had strengths in different areas.

However, it could be useful to others if they think one of those areas are particularly important to them, so I figured I'd post it. If it's useful to someone, great. If not, oh well, I tried.

It is based off of information found on the schools' websites and employment information provided to the ABA, with all caveats needed for the credibility of that information noted. Without further ado:

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For future search purposes (in case anyone actually uses advanced search): Chicago, NYU, Columbia, UVA, Michigan, employment, tuition, Leiter rankings, COA, placement, comparison etc.

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lzyovrachievr
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby lzyovrachievr » Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:02 am

Also... Sorry, not Penn or Berkeley trolling. I just didn't apply myself.

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Excellence = a Habit
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby Excellence = a Habit » Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:39 am

This is super helpful. And surprising in a couple of ways, at least for me, who didn't look too closely at most of these schools. Thanks so much for posting; it will certainly be useful for many. Where did you end up?

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lzyovrachievr
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby lzyovrachievr » Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:59 am

Excellence = a Habit wrote:Where did you end up?

NYU :)

It made the most sense for my personality and goals, though I spent so much time trying to pick between schools, and in the end, I just knew that NYU was the right choice.

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Excellence = a Habit
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby Excellence = a Habit » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:06 pm

lzyovrachievr wrote:
Excellence = a Habit wrote:Where did you end up?

NYU :)

It made the most sense for my personality and goals, though I spent so much time trying to pick between schools, and in the end, I just knew that NYU was the right choice.


OMG. I am stupid.

bdubs
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby bdubs » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:09 pm

Just to put another point in the NYU column, you can't really count Epstein as a Chicago professor anymore. Having emeritus status is not really the same as teaching somewhere.

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Xifeng
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby Xifeng » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:12 pm

Awesome spreadsheet, lzy :D

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Excellence = a Habit
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby Excellence = a Habit » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:17 pm

.
Last edited by Excellence = a Habit on Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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lzyovrachievr
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby lzyovrachievr » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:17 pm

bdubs wrote:Just to put another point in the NYU column, you can't really count Epstein as a Chicago professor anymore. Having emeritus status is not really the same as teaching somewhere.

True, but that faculty information is only 2005-2009. Hopefully Leiter will update the information soon to give a more accurate idea of where these professors are, as they seem to switch every once in a while (i.e. get poached).

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lzyovrachievr
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby lzyovrachievr » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:18 pm

Excellence = a Habit wrote:OMG. I am stupid.

Excellence = a Habit wrote:.

Lol.... what's going on. Oh... yea my tar should make that a bit apparent, haha.

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redsoxfan2495
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby redsoxfan2495 » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:22 pm

Thanks for the cool chart. I didn't realize NYU was that big.

bdubs
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby bdubs » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:29 pm

redsoxfan2495 wrote:Thanks for the cool chart. I didn't realize NYU was that big.


I think it's worth noting that NYU is the largest of the 5 compared here, but has the lowest student to faculty ratio.

Also, Dean Revesz gave a great little speech on why being big has important advantages. I can't do it justice by paraphrasing here, but basically he laid out that the benefits of small schools were primarily cultural and NYU tried to foster a small school culture in a large school environment.

RoyBatty
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby RoyBatty » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:45 pm

bdubs wrote:Just to put another point in the NYU column, you can't really count Epstein as a Chicago professor anymore. Having emeritus status is not really the same as teaching somewhere.



Teaching CivPro at Chi, currently.

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/node/518/courses

bdubs
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby bdubs » Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:00 pm

RoyBatty wrote:
bdubs wrote:Just to put another point in the NYU column, you can't really count Epstein as a Chicago professor anymore. Having emeritus status is not really the same as teaching somewhere.



Teaching CivPro at Chi, currently.

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/node/518/courses


Thanks, guess I don't know what the NYU folks meant when they said he was full time now.

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lzyovrachievr
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby lzyovrachievr » Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:01 pm

RoyBatty wrote:
bdubs wrote:Just to put another point in the NYU column, you can't really count Epstein as a Chicago professor anymore. Having emeritus status is not really the same as teaching somewhere.



Teaching CivPro at Chi, currently.

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/node/518/courses

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1 ... hbxlogin=1

He's teaching Contracts and Torts in Fall 2011 at NYU. (According to the course catalog http://its.law.nyu.edu/courses/index.cfm?) He taught Food and Drug Law Spring 2011 at NYU, and Contracts last Fall. It's possible that he really likes frequent flyer miles, but he is an NYU professor as well.

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Non-Chalant1
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby Non-Chalant1 » Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:57 pm

Why did you only pick international law and environmental law?

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Rand M.
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby Rand M. » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:11 pm

bdubs wrote:
RoyBatty wrote:
bdubs wrote:Just to put another point in the NYU column, you can't really count Epstein as a Chicago professor anymore. Having emeritus status is not really the same as teaching somewhere.



Teaching CivPro at Chi, currently.

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/node/518/courses


Thanks, guess I don't know what the NYU folks meant when they said he was full time now.


It means he has a new title. He was full-time at Chicago in the past and visiting at NYU. He now has the opposite arrangement. Definitely still teaches at Chicago and is in the building every day when it is 'our turn'. A lot of professors have visting relationships with other institutions.

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handlesthetruth
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby handlesthetruth » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:13 pm

awesome work thank you!

anyone else read this and think chicago should be ranked number 4?

FiveSermon
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby FiveSermon » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:14 pm

Thanks. Chicago had .50% go into PI? That seems low.

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ahduth
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby ahduth » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:14 pm

These schools are all TTTs.

This would have been just right for me if we replaced UVA with Berkeley. I also failed to apply to Penn. I even had the essays written. I'm just actively lazy.

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ahduth
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby ahduth » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:16 pm

handlesthetruth wrote:awesome work thank you!

anyone else read this and think chicago should be ranked number 4?


Eh, it doesn't have the most important components, median LSAT and GPA.

(not a criticism of the table, just... those are the most important parts of any school ranking.)

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handlesthetruth
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby handlesthetruth » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:22 pm

ahduth wrote:
handlesthetruth wrote:awesome work thank you!

anyone else read this and think chicago should be ranked number 4?


Eh, it doesn't have the most important components, median LSAT and GPA.

(not a criticism of the table, just... those are the most important parts of any school ranking.)


certainly.

But let's say you don't know those scores...and all you have seen is this table. Then what would you say the rankings should be?

(And the information in this table much more important than scores)

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Non-Chalant1
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby Non-Chalant1 » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:27 pm

handlesthetruth wrote:awesome work thank you!

anyone else read this and think chicago should be ranked number 4?

No...public interest is a glaring weakness.

lakerfanimal
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby lakerfanimal » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:35 pm

handlesthetruth wrote:awesome work thank you!

anyone else read this and think chicago should be ranked number 4?


Not saying you are right or wrong, but the Leiter rankings are done by Professor Leiter who teaches at ... Chicago.

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lzyovrachievr
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Re: CCNMV Comparison

Postby lzyovrachievr » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:37 pm

Non-Chalant1 wrote:Why did you only pick international law and environmental law?

Those are my particular interests. Plus Leiter's page with faculty for subjects goes on and on... So even though I was interested in others, I just checked out the subjects that may indicate which place might give me a snowball's chance in hell of doing what I'd like to do.




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