Broke Ass Early Bird in Need of Advice

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meerdo
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Broke Ass Early Bird in Need of Advice

Postby meerdo » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:09 pm

Hello TLS... long time fan, first time poster.

I'll be applying this upcoming cycle (2012) and becoming very overwhelmed by the immense amount of debt I will accrue. I foolishly chose prestige of an UG institution over financial sanity and now being crushed by close to $150k in loans to pay off. I've been considering applying part-time for 1L in hopes of working to pay off some of the interest from my loans and then going full time for 2L & 3L. Has anyone or know of anyone who has done this? Do you even think it would be worth going part-time 1L at all? Any and all suggestions are welcome.

Please redirect if this thread exists. I posted frantically in mid-panic attack.

BlueDiamond
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Re: Broke Ass Early Bird in Need of Advice

Postby BlueDiamond » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:19 pm

T14 for free.. if you dont have the numbers for that get a job to pay off the 150k first

scammedhard
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Re: Broke Ass Early Bird in Need of Advice

Postby scammedhard » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:28 pm

BlueDiamond wrote:T14 for free.. if you dont have the numbers for that get a job to pay off the 150k first

Totally agree. Only a T14 salary can get you out of this hole.
You messed up pretty bad and T14 free or at a very reduced price is your ONLY option if you want to attend law school in the near future. And even then, I am not sure... 150K + 20K*3 (living expenses) + 40K (interest) = 250K. That's a very deep hole, and you could even run into trouble with the C&F with that amount of debt.
For T14 free, you basically need an LSAT >173 AND an awesome GPA AND awesome everything else. I also really, really hope that you are an URM.

meerdo
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Re: Broke Ass Early Bird in Need of Advice

Postby meerdo » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:36 pm

Unfortunately no URM. Numbers are nothing too impressive, (3.6/165) so full ride to a school worth while is unlikely. I'm keeping a retake in my back pocket because 165 is right on the mark as far as my PT and I dread going down.

javancho
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Re: Broke Ass Early Bird in Need of Advice

Postby javancho » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:39 pm

meerdo wrote:Unfortunately no URM. Numbers are nothing too impressive, (3.6/165) so full ride to a school worth while is unlikely. I'm keeping a retake in my back pocket because 165 is right on the mark as far as my PT and I dread going down.

And what is your major?

meerdo
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Re: Broke Ass Early Bird in Need of Advice

Postby meerdo » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:47 pm

Double major: Marketing & English

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tyro
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Re: Broke Ass Early Bird in Need of Advice

Postby tyro » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:56 pm

Not really sure what to say here besides don't do it. The odds just aren't good here with potential opportunities in a legal career given your situation.

javancho
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Re: Broke Ass Early Bird in Need of Advice

Postby javancho » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:07 am

meerdo wrote:Double major: Marketing & English

I was hoping for Computer Science, or Chemical Engineering, etc.
I don't know what to tell you. You have to RETAKE and nail the LSAT next time (like a 175) and, if not, work for "a few" years. With 150K in debt and the likely salary from your major (marketing, the only one that counts in the real world), it's going to take a long time to repay. Try to work for a big multinational and go overseas. A lot of those jobs pay better and, sometimes, even provide free (or subsidized) housing.
I think that, for the foreseeable future, your only priority should be to repay the loans, and, if you ever do go to law school, I hope you have learned your lesson: GO HIGH, BUT GO CHEAP!

meerdo
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Re: Broke Ass Early Bird in Need of Advice

Postby meerdo » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:13 am

Thanks for the input everyone. Off to drown my sorrows in funny memes.

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tyro
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Re: Broke Ass Early Bird in Need of Advice

Postby tyro » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:16 am

meerdo wrote:Thanks for the input everyone. Off to drown my sorrows in funny memes.


Just don't get down on yourself. You went to an elite school and got a proper education which will benefit you in ways that might not show up on paper.

adt231
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Re: Broke Ass Early Bird in Need of Advice

Postby adt231 » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:23 am

scammedhard wrote:
BlueDiamond wrote:T14 for free.. if you dont have the numbers for that get a job to pay off the 150k first

Totally agree. Only a T14 salary can get you out of this hole.
You messed up pretty bad and T14 free or at a very reduced price is your ONLY option if you want to attend law school in the near future. And even then, I am not sure... 150K + 20K*3 (living expenses) + 40K (interest) = 250K. That's a very deep hole, and you could even run into trouble with the C&F with that amount of debt.
For T14 free, you basically need an LSAT >173 AND an awesome GPA AND awesome everything else. I also really, really hope that you are an URM.


I know next to nothing about C&F but I suspect that there is NO WAY you will run into C&F issues for 250k in debt upon graduation from a law school (especially a T14). Why? Because if you pay sticker at a school like Duke, for example, you will owe about 230k in debt upon graduation. I highly doubt that the act of paying sticker at Duke will cause you to run into problems with C&F.

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enron123
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Re: Broke Ass Early Bird in Need of Advice

Postby enron123 » Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:54 am

So annoyingly typical TLS advice...get a full ride at a t14

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Wholigan
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Re: Broke Ass Early Bird in Need of Advice

Postby Wholigan » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:13 pm

enron123 wrote:So annoyingly typical TLS advice...get a full ride at a t14


Eh... I don't think so. Typical TLS advice is that a T14 is worth sticker. While it may have been put in unrealistic terms, I don't think it's bad advice to tell the OP not to go to law school with $150k in existing debt that is accruing interest except in the given scenario. To pay sticker at a T14 would put OP about $400k in. That is going to generate $30k a year just in interest. It would almost take biglaw + make partner to pay that off. IBR would work too, but I don't know how OP would even go about making the payments for 10 years outside of a great LRAP, which again would probably require a T14.

Emma1
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Re: Broke Ass Early Bird in Need of Advice

Postby Emma1 » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:17 pm

What about doing a retake (it isnt going to hurt you) and look at schools who are state schools like William and Mary. Move this year and work and establish residency to get instate tuition. Plus you might pull a scholly if your LSAT goes up. Apply very early in the cycle. LSAT retake no later than OCTober. Ignore the T14 or nothing nonsense that people post here. Most attorneys aren't T14 and many do very well. If not I would work and pay down my undergrad debt and apply to law school in a few years.

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Magnolia
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Re: Broke Ass Early Bird in Need of Advice

Postby Magnolia » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:34 pm

Emma1 wrote:What about doing a retake (it isnt going to hurt you) and look at schools who are state schools like William and Mary. Move this year and work and establish residency to get instate tuition. Plus you might pull a scholly if your LSAT goes up. Apply very early in the cycle. LSAT retake no later than OCTober. Ignore the T14 or nothing nonsense that people post here. Most attorneys aren't T14 and many do very well. If not I would work and pay down my undergrad debt and apply to law school in a few years.

OP needs to do more than just "do well". Even with a full ride, OP will have $60k just in COL loans. Added to his/her existing debt, that's more than $200k. It's the equivalent of paying sticker for a school and will require a biglaw salary to pay off. Getting instate tuition at a school like W&M is great for the average applicant, but will still be too much debt in this case. A full ride + COL stipend at a lower ranked school would be ok as it would keep OP's debt load basically the same. Even if s/he misses biglaw, s/he won't be substantially worse off than right now. Otherwise, if s/he is paying for COL and/or partial tuition then s/he needs the best possible shot at getting biglaw, which requires t14. But IMO, anything short of a full-ride would be financial suicide, regardless of what school it is.

Definitely agree with you regarding the retake though. A 170+ would yield significantly better options.

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northwood
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Re: Broke Ass Early Bird in Need of Advice

Postby northwood » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:38 pm

OP live frugaly for a few years and pay off those loans. If you really want to go to lawschool it will be there. Once you get a high score ( 170+) work until a year or so before that score is too old to apply. If possible work 2 jobs. Sure you will not have a blast- but right now you need to focus on your goals- which is to go to law school. If your goals change then great- if not no worries.

Not to be a dick- but how set are you on being a lawyer? Would you be okay with doing anything that requires a JD degree or are you in it for financial reasons? If you are not okay with doing small law stuff- then take time to re assess what you want out of life and what careers are out there to get you to that goal. That being said- pay off as much of those loans as you can before taking on more loans.

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skers
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Re: Broke Ass Early Bird in Need of Advice

Postby skers » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:53 pm

Magnolia wrote:
Emma1 wrote:What about doing a retake (it isnt going to hurt you) and look at schools who are state schools like William and Mary. Move this year and work and establish residency to get instate tuition. Plus you might pull a scholly if your LSAT goes up. Apply very early in the cycle. LSAT retake no later than OCTober. Ignore the T14 or nothing nonsense that people post here. Most attorneys aren't T14 and many do very well. If not I would work and pay down my undergrad debt and apply to law school in a few years.

OP needs to do more than just "do well". Even with a full ride, OP will have $60k just in COL loans. Added to his/her existing debt, that's more than $200k. It's the equivalent of paying sticker for a school and will require a biglaw salary to pay off. Getting instate tuition at a school like W&M is great for the average applicant, but will still be too much debt in this case. A full ride + COL stipend at a lower ranked school would be ok as it would keep OP's debt load basically the same. Even if s/he misses biglaw, s/he won't be substantially worse off than right now. Otherwise, if s/he is paying for COL and/or partial tuition then s/he needs the best possible shot at getting biglaw, which requires t14. But IMO, anything short of a full-ride would be financial suicide, regardless of what school it is.

Definitely agree with you regarding the retake though. A 170+ would yield significantly better options.


+10000

OP has t14 debt without a t14 diploma. I don't think PI is an option as IIRC LRAP doesn't cover IG debt. He needs to do everything possible to minimize any future debt load. T14 probably isn't a reasonable option, even with a retake he will need a 175+ to have a good chance at any full rides, which while it could happen isn't very likely. Still, OP should retake to maximize chances at other schools of a full ride and stipend.

OP if you haven't thought about it before, you might want to keep JAG in mind. It's probably your best shot of being able to pay back existing debt while keeping any sort of desired standard of living.

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AreJay711
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Re: Broke Ass Early Bird in Need of Advice

Postby AreJay711 » Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:03 pm

I don't think the OP should even go to law school with a COL stipend and full tuition. The interest will still accrue and he or she will be at a lower ranked school than otherwise. Use that prestigious undergrad to get a high paying and pay off that debt over 7 years. It won't be easy but might be doable. Then study for the lsat a shit ton and go to a t14 with $. 300K in student loans is just not really workable debt and I'd hate to be out of a t2 school with ~200K in debt.

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Verity
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Re: Broke Ass Early Bird in Need of Advice

Postby Verity » Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:05 pm

Yale part-time.

javancho
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Re: Broke Ass Early Bird in Need of Advice

Postby javancho » Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:25 pm

OP:
Yesterday, I suggested Retake and hope for the best to get into a T14 for free. Now, after careful consideration, I say just forget about law school, the lsat, retakes, etc. All those things are just going to distract you from what you really need right now: a very high paying job out of undergrad and promotions soon after. Maybe in 5 years you can re-evaluate, but, in the meantime, all your efforts should go into paying your huge 150K debt, which will not be an easy task.

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skers
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Re: Broke Ass Early Bird in Need of Advice

Postby skers » Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:37 pm

AreJay711 wrote:I don't think the OP should even go to law school with a COL stipend and full tuition. The interest will still accrue and he or she will be at a lower ranked school than otherwise. Use that prestigious undergrad to get a high paying and pay off that debt over 7 years. It won't be easy but might be doable. Then study for the lsat a shit ton and go to a t14 with $. 300K in student loans is just not really workable debt and I'd hate to be out of a t2 school with ~200K in debt.



Jobs that provide any reasonable chance of paying back 150k in loans in 7 years aren't exactly easy to come by. My guess would be that OP is viewing LS as his avenue to pay off the debt. If he already had a high paying job or could expect to get one, this wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue.

rose711
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Re: Broke Ass Early Bird in Need of Advice

Postby rose711 » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:03 pm

To echo the advice here, you need to put all your effort into finding the best job(s) you can. That amount of debt is going to take a long time to pay down. If you are determined to go to law school, make sure you have an idea how much debt you will end up with, or go part time at night. Some corporate jobs will pay law school tuition for employees - maybe you could find a job like that(?) In this economy, you need to find the best job you can and build up that career.

Someone upthread posted that you could end up with total Law School and UG debt that would accrue interest at 30,000 a year. I hope that is incorrect, but just the thought of that much interest accuring was enough to make me want to go get a large margarita.

Don't panic, but forget about law school for a while.

FiveSermon
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Re: Broke Ass Early Bird in Need of Advice

Postby FiveSermon » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:05 pm

Don't go to law school unless you score very high on your LSAT retake.

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AreJay711
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Re: Broke Ass Early Bird in Need of Advice

Postby AreJay711 » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:12 pm

TemporarySaint wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:I don't think the OP should even go to law school with a COL stipend and full tuition. The interest will still accrue and he or she will be at a lower ranked school than otherwise. Use that prestigious undergrad to get a high paying and pay off that debt over 7 years. It won't be easy but might be doable. Then study for the lsat a shit ton and go to a t14 with $. 300K in student loans is just not really workable debt and I'd hate to be out of a t2 school with ~200K in debt.



Jobs that provide any reasonable chance of paying back 150k in loans in 7 years aren't exactly easy to come by. My guess would be that OP is viewing LS as his avenue to pay off the debt. If he already had a high paying job or could expect to get one, this wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue.


No but it might be doable at 50K a year which is an obtainable salary from a good school. It will be easier than finding a job that can pay off 300K or 200K from a t2

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jwaters
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Re: Broke Ass Early Bird in Need of Advice

Postby jwaters » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:28 pm

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Last edited by jwaters on Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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