Wash U in St. Louis VERSUS University of Illinois Urbana/Cha

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

What School and Why??? (Cost of Tuition)

Wash U 15,000/yr (will increase by exact amount of annual increase)
68
76%
U Illinois 10,000/yr (no increase over three years)
22
24%
 
Total votes: 90

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stratocophic
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Re: Wash U in St. Louis VERSUS University of Illinois Urbana/Cha

Postby stratocophic » Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:49 pm

Slevin Kelevra 2011 wrote:Its not about WUSTL. Just discussing St. Louis and Missouri. Of those 6 NLJ250 firms, how many are AMLaw 100 or V100? Just saying. It's not a big legal market. If you take the total number of summer associates at AMLaw 100 or V100 firms in St. Louis, I doubt you get over 20 total in the entire city, if that.

Actually, I'll do it. Firms with over 500 attorneys (there are only three with St. L offices):

HUSCH BLACKWELL LLP - 8 summer associates last year
Polsinelli Shughart PC - 2 summer associates last year
BRYAN CAVE LLP - 6 summer associates last year

So, St. Louis has a total of around (given fluctations) 15-20 total summer associate positions at top law firms. That just isn't much of a legal market.
*Proudly scorns Wachtell for DLA Piper because DLA Piper has more attorneys*

SNR Denton also has an office in the city. They probably run between 1 and 5 SAs/year from downturn to boom, there are less than 100 attorneys in the office. Probably 50-75 total. But yeah St. Louis isn't a huge legal market.

TheSteelKid
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Re: Wash U in St. Louis VERSUS University of Illinois Urbana/Cha

Postby TheSteelKid » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:02 pm

Well all I can say is my decision is far from made. Im hoping to be pleasantly surprised by u illinois when i visit tomorrow. St. Louis is nice but i dont know if its my cup of tea.

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romothesavior
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Re: Wash U in St. Louis VERSUS University of Illinois Urbana/Cha

Postby romothesavior » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:04 pm

TheSteelKid wrote:Well all I can say is my decision is far from made. Im hoping to be pleasantly surprised by u illinois when i visit tomorrow. St. Louis is nice but i dont know if its my cup of tea.

If you can handle Pittsburgh, you can handle St. Louis. And Champaign is dreadfully boring, unless you are an undergrad.

TheSteelKid
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Re: Wash U in St. Louis VERSUS University of Illinois Urbana/Cha

Postby TheSteelKid » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:07 pm

romothesavior wrote:
TheSteelKid wrote:Well all I can say is my decision is far from made. Im hoping to be pleasantly surprised by u illinois when i visit tomorrow. St. Louis is nice but i dont know if its my cup of tea.

If you can handle Pittsburgh, you can handle St. Louis. And Champaign is dreadfully boring, unless you are an undergrad.



I hear you on your logic. I have to see for myself if champaign is really that weak.

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romothesavior
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Re: Wash U in St. Louis VERSUS University of Illinois Urbana/Cha

Postby romothesavior » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:08 pm

TheSteelKid wrote:I hear you on your logic. I have to see for myself if champaign is really that weak.

It's not bad. I've never lived there, but I've spent a lot of time there. There is definitely more to do in St. Louis, but I'm sure Champaign could at least keep you entertained during LS.

TheSteelKid
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Re: Wash U in St. Louis VERSUS University of Illinois Urbana/Cha

Postby TheSteelKid » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:11 pm

romothesavior wrote:
TheSteelKid wrote:I hear you on your logic. I have to see for myself if champaign is really that weak.

It's not bad. I've never lived there, but I've spent a lot of time there. There is definitely more to do in St. Louis, but I'm sure Champaign could at least keep you entertained during LS.



Ya honestly going to law school where i went to undergrad is kind of a deal breaker for me so i def understand wanting change. Ill have to make my analysis tomorrow when i go. :)

TheSteelKid
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Re: Wash U in St. Louis VERSUS University of Illinois Urbana/Cha

Postby TheSteelKid » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:23 pm

TheSteelKid wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
TheSteelKid wrote:I hear you on your logic. I have to see for myself if champaign is really that weak.

It's not bad. I've never lived there, but I've spent a lot of time there. There is definitely more to do in St. Louis, but I'm sure Champaign could at least keep you entertained during LS.



Ya honestly going to law school where i went to undergrad is kind of a deal breaker for me so i def understand wanting change. Ill have to make my analysis tomorrow when i go. :)



Haha but i misread and u didnt even go there. My bad

TheSteelKid
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Re: Wash U in St. Louis VERSUS University of Illinois Urbana/Cha

Postby TheSteelKid » Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:38 pm

In champaign now, i like the town so far. On my way to the law school to check it out. This endless rain is pretty garbage tho.

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DreamsInDigital
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Re: Wash U in St. Louis VERSUS University of Illinois Urbana/Cha

Postby DreamsInDigital » Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:26 pm

TheSteelKid wrote:In champaign now, i like the town so far. On my way to the law school to check it out. This endless rain is pretty garbage tho.


I visited Illinois for ASD and while I was skeptical of the city, it wasn't too bad. There seem to be plenty of bars/lounges (and at least the ones where the grad students hang out weren't bursting with undergrads) and at least a few options for more cultural stuff to do. It is never going to be Chicago/LA/NYC but it should be enough for 3 years of law school.

TheSteelKid
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Re: Wash U in St. Louis VERSUS University of Illinois Urbana/Cha

Postby TheSteelKid » Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:54 pm

DreamsInDigital wrote:
TheSteelKid wrote:In champaign now, i like the town so far. On my way to the law school to check it out. This endless rain is pretty garbage tho.


I visited Illinois for ASD and while I was skeptical of the city, it wasn't too bad. There seem to be plenty of bars/lounges (and at least the ones where the grad students hang out weren't bursting with undergrads) and at least a few options for more cultural stuff to do. It is never going to be Chicago/LA/NYC but it should be enough for 3 years of law school.



I agree, I was skeptical about the area as well but its a actually a decent little college town and apparently they get some broadway shows and concerts. Im happy i visited both schools and now have a realistic picture of what life would be like at each. I like aspects of both so now I must decide!

MyManKanye
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Re: Wash U in St. Louis VERSUS University of Illinois Urbana/Cha

Postby MyManKanye » Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:55 pm

You picked a bad day to come here. Its been raining like hell all week. Usually this is the best time of the year here, its warm, but not hot and humid. I have to say the worst part about C-U is the weather. Hot until October, then in about a week it goes from 70-80 to 40-50 and another two weeks and its sub freezing until March. Its also windy as hell here.

I do think the climate (minus the wind) is probably similar in St. Louis though. As far as there not being anything to do here, there is, but if you don't like the bar scene than you really need to work to find the people doing other things and integrate with them. C-U is 40,000 students strong and the university does a pretty poor job connecting you with the ones that share your interests.

TheSteelKid
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Re: Wash U in St. Louis VERSUS University of Illinois Urbana/Cha

Postby TheSteelKid » Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:02 pm

MyManKanye wrote:You picked a bad day to come here. Its been raining like hell all week. Usually this is the best time of the year here, its warm, but not hot and humid. I have to say the worst part about C-U is the weather. Hot until October, then in about a week it goes from 70-80 to 40-50 and another two weeks and its sub freezing until March. Its also windy as hell here.

I do think the climate (minus the wind) is probably similar in St. Louis though. As far as there not being anything to do here, there is, but if you don't like the bar scene than you really need to work to find the people doing other things and integrate with them. C-U is 40,000 students strong and the university does a pretty poor job connecting you with the ones that share your interests.


Ya I was just thinking about who I will go to shows with, party with, have fun with etc. I guess thats just something you kind of have to do on your own but it would be nice to have a resource for meeting people w similar interests.

MyManKanye
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Re: Wash U in St. Louis VERSUS University of Illinois Urbana/Cha

Postby MyManKanye » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:17 pm

I think at most schools, the student body is smaller so its easier to meet a big proportion of the population or to find the spots the students hang out at. U of I has 40,000 undergrads and another heap of grad students. Its kind of hard to connect with people when you have a class with 1,000 kids in it your first semester. I think law school is probably a lot better since you have a class of around 200 to bond with.

If you want to do things with the rest of the students you need to frequent the places where people post flyers and things. You can't really just wander around and expect to find interesting people to hang out with.

TheSteelKid
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Re: Wash U in St. Louis VERSUS University of Illinois Urbana/Cha

Postby TheSteelKid » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:48 am

Hannibal wrote:UIUC's better presence in Chicago is likely negligible if you want it. WUSTL has more markets it feeds, so self selection comes more into play.



I dont know how true this is. I mean I don't doubt that WUSTL has good connections in Chicago, but I feel like U Illinois probably does significantly better considering its their home market. I feel like the only real employment differences in these schools is that WUSTL has St. Louis and Kansas City but Illinois does better in Chicago. I guess WUSTL is slightly better for the Northeast though, but I can't gauge how significant that is with Illinois not giving detailed placement stats.

TheSteelKid
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Re: Wash U in St. Louis VERSUS University of Illinois Urbana/Cha

Postby TheSteelKid » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:54 am

[quote="MyManKanye"]I think at most schools, the student body is smaller so its easier to meet a big proportion of the population or to find the spots the students hang out at. U of I has 40,000 undergrads and another heap of grad students. Its kind of hard to connect with people when you have a class with 1,000 kids in it your first semester. I think law school is probably a lot better since you have a class of around 200 to bond with.

If you want to do things with the rest of the students you need to frequent the places where people post flyers and things. You can't really just wander around and expect to find interesting people to hang out with.[/quote]


Especially if the school is "fratty", can I understand having problems living there as an Undergrad. I mean its not like you can get out of the town so if you cant find parties and such that can be a problem. As a law student I think Ill be so consumed by my work that I will often enjoy the quiet. Things may kind of suck if I want to party hard on the weekends, but I can always bus it to Chicago to stay w/ my friend who will be there for a while.

TheSteelKid
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Re: Wash U in St. Louis VERSUS University of Illinois Urbana/Cha

Postby TheSteelKid » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:55 pm

Basically ive gotten the impression that Chicago is 100% there from you at Illinois. IF this is true at Wash U also I'll have more of a decision...

TheSteelKid
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Re: Wash U in St. Louis VERSUS University of Illinois Urbana/Cha

Postby TheSteelKid » Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:33 pm

I DEMAND to know why people are ao overwhelmingly voting for WUSTL. The rankings excuse is not valid in my eyes. Quality of life in the city, I can understand. Comment please

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Hannibal
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Re: Wash U in St. Louis VERSUS University of Illinois Urbana/Cha

Postby Hannibal » Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:35 pm

TheSteelKid wrote:I DEMAND to know why people are ao overwhelmingly voting for WUSTL. The rankings excuse is not valid in my eyes. Quality of life in the city, I can understand. Comment please


Probably for the following reasons:

St. Louis has better weather
St. Louis is a city
The facilities are top-notch
Employment numbers, though questionable with Chicago, are almost certainly better overall (though not by much)

Of course there are many personal reasons to choose Illinois (proximity to Chicago, desire to live in a smaller college town), but it's hard to tell if those would override in this topic.

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romothesavior
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Re: Wash U in St. Louis VERSUS University of Illinois Urbana/Cha

Postby romothesavior » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:08 pm

TheSteelKid wrote:I DEMAND to know why people are ao overwhelmingly voting for WUSTL. The rankings excuse is not valid in my eyes. Quality of life in the city, I can understand. Comment please

They are peers in every sense of the word. I think they are as close to being "true peers" as any two schools in the entire top tier. I think most people just prefer WUSTL to UIUC for personal reasons. As Hanni said, most people would prefer a city to a college town (at least for law school), and with all due respect to UIUC, our facilities blow theirs out of the water. Also, your assumption that Chicago is easier to get from UIUC than from WUSTL is questionable. I don't doubt that UIUC is better, but it isn't by much, especially for NLJ jobs. I'd be interested in seeing clearer data on the topic. I also think WUSTL has slightly more national reach, but again, that isn't something I'd be willing to stand behind without better data.

But yeah, that's my best explanation for the difference. Some people may be stupidly voting based on USNWR, but I do think most people have actual reasons for voting that way.

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stratocophic
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Re: Wash U in St. Louis VERSUS University of Illinois Urbana/Cha

Postby stratocophic » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:14 pm

romothesavior wrote:
TheSteelKid wrote:I DEMAND to know why people are ao overwhelmingly voting for WUSTL. The rankings excuse is not valid in my eyes. Quality of life in the city, I can understand. Comment please

They are peers in every sense of the word. I think they are as close to being "true peers" as any two schools in the entire top tier. I think most people just prefer WUSTL to UIUC for personal reasons. As Hanni said, most people would prefer a city to a college town (at least for law school), and with all due respect to UIUC, our facilities blow theirs out of the water. Also, your assumption that Chicago is easier to get from UIUC than from WUSTL is questionable. I don't doubt that UIUC is better, but it isn't by much, especially for NLJ jobs. I'd be interested in seeing clearer data on the topic. I also think WUSTL has slightly more national reach, but again, that isn't something I'd be willing to stand behind without better data.

But yeah, that's my best explanation for the difference. Some people may be stupidly voting based on USNWR, but I do think most people have actual reasons for voting that way.
Let's be honest, it's probably a result of WashU's COMMANDING 1.01% lead in the latest NLJ 250 figures.

TheSteelKid
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Re: Wash U in St. Louis VERSUS University of Illinois Urbana/Cha

Postby TheSteelKid » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:19 pm

stratocophic wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
TheSteelKid wrote:I DEMAND to know why people are ao overwhelmingly voting for WUSTL. The rankings excuse is not valid in my eyes. Quality of life in the city, I can understand. Comment please

They are peers in every sense of the word. I think they are as close to being "true peers" as any two schools in the entire top tier. I think most people just prefer WUSTL to UIUC for personal reasons. As Hanni said, most people would prefer a city to a college town (at least for law school), and with all due respect to UIUC, our facilities blow theirs out of the water. Also, your assumption that Chicago is easier to get from UIUC than from WUSTL is questionable. I don't doubt that UIUC is better, but it isn't by much, especially for NLJ jobs. I'd be

interested in seeing clearer data on the topic. I also think WUSTL has slightly more national reach, but again, that isn't something I'd be willing to stand behind without better data.

But yeah, that's my best explanation for the difference. Some people may be stupidly voting based on USNWR, but I do think most people have

actual reasons for voting that way.
Let's be

honest, it's probably a result of WashU's COMMANDING 1.01% lead in the latest NLJ 250 figures.



Haha ya i think it comes to to rankings/city life/idea (possibly false) of increased prestige

TheSteelKid
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Re: Wash U in St. Louis VERSUS University of Illinois Urbana/Cha

Postby TheSteelKid » Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:08 pm

romothesavior wrote:
TheSteelKid wrote:I DEMAND to know why people are ao overwhelmingly voting for WUSTL. The rankings excuse is not valid in my eyes. Quality of life in the city, I can understand. Comment please

They are peers in every sense of the word. I think they are as close to being "true peers" as any two schools in the entire top tier. I think most people just prefer WUSTL to UIUC for personal reasons. As Hanni said, most people would prefer a city to a college town (at least for law school), and with all due respect to UIUC, our facilities blow theirs out of the water. Also, your assumption that Chicago is easier to get from UIUC than from WUSTL is questionable. I don't doubt that UIUC is better, but it isn't by much, especially for NLJ jobs. I'd be interested in seeing clearer data on the topic. I also think WUSTL has slightly more national reach, but again, that isn't something I'd be willing to stand behind without better data.

But yeah, that's my best explanation for the difference. Some people may be stupidly voting based on USNWR, but I do think most people have actual reasons for voting that way.



It seems that UIUC has been putting damn near half of their graduates into Chicago, while WUSTL only does about 20%. I can show you a chart for 2009 graduates from WUSTL which displays only about 20% going to the Chicago area, and most going to Chicago. Illinois on the other hand claims that about 60% of students stay in Illinois and probably atleast 50% of all grads work in Chicago.

However, as Hannibal said, this may not necessarily mean that Chicago is less of an option at WUSTL. It could just be "self selection" in that a lot of students like to stay in Missouri or go to other states even though Chicago is attainable. However, I think the numbers point to Illinois being better in Chicago, and they probably also have a a more significant number of alumni there. Their career services said they have over 6,000 alumni in Chicago, which I guess is possible over the course of like 50+ years of law students moving there.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Wash U in St. Louis VERSUS University of Illinois Urbana/Cha

Postby CanadianWolf » Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:24 pm

My guess is that more are voting for St. Louis over Urbana-Champaign, and not necessarily for one law school over the other. It might be interesting if you add Pitt & Pittsburgh to your poll.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Wash U in St. Louis VERSUS University of Illinois Urbana/Cha

Postby CanadianWolf » Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:31 pm

Your profile shows that you are waitlisted at Northwestern, Virginia, Vanderbilt & Michigan. All of these are better options since you seem interested in biglaw, Chicago & the Northeast. With a 170 LSAT. why not wait, work for a year & reapply early ?

MyManKanye
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Re: Wash U in St. Louis VERSUS University of Illinois Urbana/Cha

Postby MyManKanye » Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:33 pm

People are voting for WUSTL because the people with no real experience with either school typically choose the more prestigious one. There's also the fact that WUSTL seems much better represented on these boards than Illinois at least vocally. Anyway, from what I've heard either school gives you about an even chance at biglaw. Illinois is more focused in Chicago. WUSTL is mostly in Chicago with a tiny bit better on the coasts. Basically, you should pick based on where you would prefer living. I didn't care for St. Louis when I visited so that's how I made that decision. The campus was nice, but I didn't want to live there for three years, or worse have to stay there when I graduated. Your experience was likely different and as far as academics go, I think 9/10 times you'd end up with similar prospects from either school.




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