My head is spinning...

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ryde06
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My head is spinning...

Postby ryde06 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:14 pm

I'm currently considering 3 schools, all completely different:

1) Pepperdine University in Malibu with a $20k/year scholarship
2) University of Colorado Boulder with a $12k/$4k/$4k/ scholarship offer
3) Tulane University with a $10k/year scholarship

Here are the factors:

-I currently live and work in L.A (born and raised here), so one might think I would want to practice here upon graduation--but that is not set in stone.
-I am really interested in studying sports law and pursuing a career in that industry upon completion, and Tulane is supposed to have a strong sports law program.
-Tuiton: If I re-qualify for scholarships each year, 3 years of tuition at Pepperdine would cost me around $64k. At Colorado, 3 years would cost me $74k. At Tulane, 3 years would cost me $101k

Colorado and Tulane are tied in rankings, with Pepperdine a few spots below those two.

As a side note, would any of these schools give me a better shot at a potential transfer if it came down to it?

Any words of wisdom?

...Bueller?

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red_alertz
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Re: My head is spinning...

Postby red_alertz » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:22 pm

retake and reapply early next cycle

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Magnolia
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Re: My head is spinning...

Postby Magnolia » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:26 pm

ryde06 wrote:I'm currently considering 3 schools, all completely different:

1) Pepperdine University in Malibu with a $20k/year scholarship
2) University of Colorado Boulder with a $12k/$4k/$4k/ scholarship offer
3) Tulane University with a $10k/year scholarship

Here are the factors:

-I currently live and work in L.A (born and raised here), so one might think I would want to practice here upon graduation--but that is not set in stone.
-I am really interested in studying sports law and pursuing a career in that industry upon completion, and Tulane is supposed to have a strong sports law program.
-Tuiton: If I re-qualify for scholarships each year, 3 years of tuition at Pepperdine would cost me around $64k. At Colorado, 3 years would cost me $74k. At Tulane, 3 years would cost me $101k

Colorado and Tulane are tied in rankings, with Pepperdine a few spots below those two.

As a side note, would any of these schools give me a better shot at a potential transfer if it came down to it?

Any words of wisdom?

...Bueller?

1. Do any of those scholarships come with stipulations?
2. Everyone and their mother wants to do sports law. What are your career goals for if/when you don't make it in your chosen field?
3. Where do you want to be if not LA?
4. Don't pick a school based on intentions to transfer.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: My head is spinning...

Postby Stringer Bell » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:30 pm

Pepperdine makes the most sense between these options.

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bk1
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Re: My head is spinning...

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:35 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:Pepperdine makes the most sense between these options.


Disagree. Boulder is a much better financial decision.

ryde06
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Re: My head is spinning...

Postby ryde06 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:43 pm

Retaking and reapplying is not in the cards for me at this point.

1. The only one that has a stipulation is pepperdine--I have to be in the top 1/3 which I feel pretty comfortable about.
2. Yea sports law is popular, but I was just wondering if going to a school that had a specific program was beneficial in any sort of way
3. I'm flexible with location at this point. L.A would be nice, but I'm not going to limit myself
4. Ok, fair enough. Intention to transfer is not something I would base my decision on--it was just a thought to consider.

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tea_drinker
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Re: My head is spinning...

Postby tea_drinker » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:48 pm

Magnolia wrote:2. Everyone and their mother wants to do sports law. What are your career goals for if/when you don't make it in your chosen field?

:lol: :lol:

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bk1
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Re: My head is spinning...

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:56 pm

ryde06 wrote:1. The only one that has a stipulation is pepperdine--I have to be in the top 1/3 which I feel pretty comfortable about.

Your classmates are just as qualified and hardworking as you. There is a 66% chance that you won't keep this scholarship, so a majority of the time you are not going to have this scholarship past your first year. That is a bad deal
ryde06 wrote:2. Yea sports law is popular, but I was just wondering if going to a school that had a specific program was beneficial in any sort of way

Short answer: no. Long answer: noooooooo. Not to mention that sports law is a very very niche practice area so in all likelihood you won't be working there even if you try hard for it. Have plans for jobs other than sports law.
ryde06 wrote:3. I'm flexible with location at this point. L.A would be nice, but I'm not going to limit myself

Schools are regional. If you go to Pepperdine you will be working in SoCal. If you go to Boulder you will be working in CO. If you go to Tulane you will be working in the South/NOLA. Figure out which one you prefer
ryde06 wrote:4. Ok, fair enough. Intention to transfer is not something I would base my decision on--it was just a thought to consider.

It isn't something worth considering. Transferring requires top 10% grades or better. 90% of the time, you are not going to have the grades to transfer so it is basically moot to even consider it.
ryde06 wrote:Retaking and reapplying is not in the cards for me at this point.

Why? Somebody pointing a gun to your head? If you can raise your LSAT you can end up in significantly less debt or go to better schools. That is easily worth taking a year off. You have a much higher chance of getting into a better school by retaking/reapplying than you would of if you went to school now and planned on transferring.

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Magnolia
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Re: My head is spinning...

Postby Magnolia » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:58 pm

ryde06 wrote:Retaking and reapplying is not in the cards for me at this point.

1. The only one that has a stipulation is pepperdine--I have to be in the top 1/3 which I feel pretty comfortable about.
2. Yea sports law is popular, but I was just wondering if going to a school that had a specific program was beneficial in any sort of way
3. I'm flexible with location at this point. L.A would be nice, but I'm not going to limit myself
4. Ok, fair enough. Intention to transfer is not something I would base my decision on--it was just a thought to consider.

1. Don't feel comfortable with a top 1/3 stip. The odds are against you keeping your scholarship. You have no way of knowing how well you'll do in law school. Just being smart and working hard will not be enough to land you at the top of the class. All of your classmates will be smart and hardworking, and they will all believe that they will be at the top of the class. 2/3 of you will be wrong. I would also bet that more than 1/3 of the incoming class has a scholarship with a top 1/3 stip, which means some of you will be guaranteed to lose it. It will also mean that everyone with money will be fighting that much harder to get to the top of the class. 1L is stressful enough all on its own. There's no need to pack on the additional stress of trying to maintain a scholarship.

2. A specific program is not going to help. Strong connections to the industry and/or being related to a pro athlete are the keys to breaking in, and even then it's an uphill battle.

3. Ok. I assume this means that you'll be ok with Colorado or NOLA if you pick Boulder or Tulane?

4. If you place at the very tippy top of your class, you'll probably have the opportunity to transfer. But, again, don't bank on being at the very top of your class. If you want more specific info about what schools might be open to you if you are at the top of the class, check out the transfer applicants subforum.

My vote is for Boulder. It places well in its home market (which I'm assuming you're ok with) and won't leave you drowning in debt.

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Always Credited
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Re: My head is spinning...

Postby Always Credited » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:02 pm

ryde06 wrote:Retaking and reapplying is not in the cards for me at this point.

1. The only one that has a stipulation is pepperdine--I have to be in the top 1/3 which I feel pretty comfortable about.
2. Yea sports law is popular, but I was just wondering if going to a school that had a specific program was beneficial in any sort of way
3. I'm flexible with location at this point. L.A would be nice, but I'm not going to limit myself
4. Ok, fair enough. Intention to transfer is not something I would base my decision on--it was just a thought to consider.


There is so much facepalm here that it isn't even worth discussing. With addicts there's a point beyond which no rehabilitation is possible. This is that point for a law school applicant.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: My head is spinning...

Postby Stringer Bell » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:21 pm

bk1 wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:Pepperdine makes the most sense between these options.


Disagree. Boulder is a much better financial decision.


How so unless you want to say it makes sense to start your career in a part of the country with lower COL? Career prospects seem to be in the same ball park. Cost is about the same. OP is from the area so moving will be easier and they get the advantages of having a network in place.

EDIT: Missed the Pepperdine stip. I'd probably go with Boulder as well.

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bk1
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Re: My head is spinning...

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:25 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:
bk1 wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:Pepperdine makes the most sense between these options.


Disagree. Boulder is a much better financial decision.


How so unless you want to say it makes sense to start your career in a part of the country with lower COL? Career prospects seem to be in the same ball park. Cost is about the same. OP is from the area so moving will be easier and they get the advantages of having a network in place.

EDIT: Missed the Pepperdine stip. I'd probably go with Boulder as well.


Yup your edit is why. Plus it's pretty easy to get Colorado in state.

ryde06
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Re: My head is spinning...

Postby ryde06 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:30 pm

Okay...I get the fact that people are smart and work hard in law school and therefore it's not wise to assume I'll keep my scholarship after the 1st year, but DAMN it's still a possibility right? It's not literally impossible to be in the top 1/3 is it?

Is it so hard to meet the stipulation that I should just assume I won't get it and therefore consider another school entirely?

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Magnolia
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Re: My head is spinning...

Postby Magnolia » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:31 pm

ryde06 wrote:Okay...I get the fact that people are smart and work hard in law school and therefore it's not wise to assume I'll keep my scholarship after the 1st year, but DAMN it's still a possibility right? It's not literally impossible to be in the top 1/3 is it?

Is it so hard to meet the stipulation that I should just assume I won't get it and therefore consider another school entirely?

Yes.

ryde06
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Re: My head is spinning...

Postby ryde06 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:33 pm

What am I missing out on here? 1/3 of the class will be keeping their scholarships. Why can't I be in that 1/3?

reverendt
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Re: My head is spinning...

Postby reverendt » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:36 pm

ryde06 wrote:Okay...I get the fact that people are smart and work hard in law school and therefore it's not wise to assume I'll keep my scholarship after the 1st year, but DAMN it's still a possibility right? It's not literally impossible to be in the top 1/3 is it?

Is it so hard to meet the stipulation that I should just assume I won't get it and therefore consider another school entirely?

It's certainly a possibility...but you want to be prepared that it's just as possible (technically more so) that you will lose that scholly after a year. In other words...DON'T base your whole decision on it.

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Always Credited
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Re: My head is spinning...

Postby Always Credited » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:37 pm

Any scholarship with stipulations isn't a scholarship at all - its an inducement to engage in an odds-against gamble.

reverendt
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Re: My head is spinning...

Postby reverendt » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:37 pm

ryde06 wrote:What am I missing out on here? 1/3 of the class will be keeping their scholarships. Why can't I be in that 1/3?

I don't know about pepperdine, but some schools stack all the scholarship people in one section, so they compete against each other. This means that 2/3 of them LOSE their scholarship.

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tea_drinker
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Re: My head is spinning...

Postby tea_drinker » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:39 pm

bk1 wrote:
ryde06 wrote:1. The only one that has a stipulation is pepperdine--I have to be in the top 1/3 which I feel pretty comfortable about.

There is a 66% chance that you won't keep this scholarship, so a majority of the time you are not going to have this scholarship past your first year.


You certainly can, but the odd is against you. You should calculate how much debt you would incur in case you lose the scholarship, and compare that to the total COA at Boulder.

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bk1
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Re: My head is spinning...

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:41 pm

ryde06 wrote:What am I missing out on here? 1/3 of the class will be keeping their scholarships. Why can't I be in that 1/3?


You can be. It's just that 66% of the time you won't be in that third. Meaning you have a higher chance of losing your scholarship than keeping it.

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Magnolia
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Re: My head is spinning...

Postby Magnolia » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:42 pm

ryde06 wrote:What am I missing out on here? 1/3 of the class will be keeping their scholarships. Why can't I be in that 1/3?

Because there's a 2/3 chance that you won't be. Some people in the incoming class are guaranteed to lose their scholarships. You could easily be one of them. Why would you bet $40k + compounding interest that you'll beat the odds when you don't have to? The legal market in CA is terribly over-saturated and highly desirable. There are more than a dozen law schools in the state and lots of people from t13 schools who want jobs in the same state. The employment prospects from Pepperdine already aren't great. The employment prospects for jobs that can pay off your debt load if you pay sticker for 2L and 3L are even lower.

Also, you're assuming that everyone at the school has a scholarship. That's unlikely. There will be some people there paying sticker, and they could end up top 1/3, causing even more people to lose their scholarship. It's an unnecessary risk when you have other viable options. If staying in Cali is really that important to you, then you should retake and reapply. And don't claim to be willing to leave LA if you aren't.

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Grizz
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Re: My head is spinning...

Postby Grizz » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:44 pm

reverendt wrote:
ryde06 wrote:What am I missing out on here? 1/3 of the class will be keeping their scholarships. Why can't I be in that 1/3?

I don't know about pepperdine, but some schools stack all the scholarship people in one section, so they compete against each other. This means that 2/3 of them LOSE their scholarship.


Or they give out top 1/3 scholarships to over 1/3 of the people.

ryde06
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Re: My head is spinning...

Postby ryde06 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:50 pm

Interesting points....alright. I'm just trying to get an accurate view of the situation. Wasn't aware that getting a scholarship would turn into this betting/gambling/losing ordeal.

I am willing to leave CA, but if I choose Boulder because of its overall cost, am I going to be confined to practicing in CO forever? And if that's the case, would choosing Boulder for its lower tuition be worth it in the long run?

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Magnolia
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Re: My head is spinning...

Postby Magnolia » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:58 pm

ryde06 wrote:Interesting points....alright. I'm just trying to get an accurate view of the situation. Wasn't aware that getting a scholarship would turn into this betting/gambling/losing ordeal.

I am willing to leave CA, but if I choose Boulder because of its overall cost, am I going to be confined to practicing in CO forever? And if that's the case, would choosing Boulder for its lower tuition be worth it in the long run?

Boulder is a regional school, so while you may have an outside shot of getting back to CA right out of school, you should assume that you will end up in CO at first. After a few years you may (not to be confused with will) have a shot to lateral into a job in CA. However, that will mean giving up the network of contacts and clients you will have established in CO and will require that you take the CA bar.

Regardless it's bad to go to Boulder if being unable to get back to CA will make you unhappy. Again, if ending up in Cali is that important to you, then TCR is to retake and reapply.
Last edited by Magnolia on Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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gwuorbust
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Re: My head is spinning...

Postby gwuorbust » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:08 pm

Magnolia wrote:
Regardless it's bad to go to Boulder if being unable to get back to CA will make up unhappy. Again, if ending up in Cali is that important to you, then TCR is to retake and reapply.




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