UCLA worth if for shot at Cali (give up T13??)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Duke or UCLA

Duke (CoA $96,000)
15
25%
UCLA (CoA $70,000)
45
75%
 
Total votes: 60

TheThreader
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UCLA worth if for shot at Cali (give up T13??)

Postby TheThreader » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:31 pm

Choosing between where to deposit - Duke or UCLA...decision needs to be done by the end of the week.

No ties to Cali.
Ties to TX
Dont want to work in NYC
Entertainment law is somewhat intriguing, however biglaw is my number 1 goal.
LA would be my top choice market

Where to go?

ku1185
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Re: UCLA worth if for shot at Cali (give up T13??)

Postby ku1185 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:04 pm

You want LA. You have no ties to LA. Go to LA. And save money while you're at it.

TheThreader
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Re: UCLA worth if for shot at Cali (give up T13??)

Postby TheThreader » Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:31 pm

I want LA, but getting a biglaw job somewhere else would be better than getting a biglaw job in Cali. Im more biglaw or bust than cali or bust.

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tea_drinker
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Re: UCLA worth if for shot at Cali (give up T13??)

Postby tea_drinker » Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:55 pm

The difference in NLJ250 firms placement is not that big between the two school.

http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/goto%20l ... s_main.pdf

Pick the one you will be more happy going to for three year.

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bk1
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Re: UCLA worth if for shot at Cali (give up T13??)

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:01 pm

tea_drinker wrote:The difference in NLJ250 firms placement is not that big between the two school.

http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/goto%20l ... s_main.pdf

Pick the one you will be more happy going to for three year.


This is pretty disingenuous considering with all the other years we have NLJ data (2005, 2007, 2008, 2009) there is a decent sized gap between the two. Duke definitely places better overall than UCLA and by a decent chunk too.

The question OP should be asking is which is better (and I realize that this is an oversimplification):

0% chance at CA biglaw, 50% chance at TX/southern/NYC biglaw, 50% chance at TX/southern/NYC smalllaw
-or-
35% chance at CA/NYC/TX biglaw, 65% chance at CA/NYC/TX smalllaw

If the former, go to Duke. If the latter, go to UCLA. Is sacrificing absolute chances for biglaw worth making CA a guarantee?

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tea_drinker
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Re: UCLA worth if for shot at Cali (give up T13??)

Postby tea_drinker » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:12 pm

bk1 wrote:
tea_drinker wrote:The difference in NLJ250 firms placement is not that big between the two school.

http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/goto%20l ... s_main.pdf

Pick the one you will be more happy going to for three year.


This is pretty disingenuous considering with all the other years we have NLJ data (2005, 2007, 2008, 2009) there is a decent sized gap between the two. Duke definitely places better overall than UCLA and by a decent chunk too.

The question OP should be asking is which is better:

0% chance at CA biglaw, 50% chance at TX/southern/NYC biglaw, 50% chance at TX/southern/NYC smalllaw
-or-
35% chance at CA/NYC/TX biglaw, 65% chance at CA/NYC/TX smalllaw

If the former, go to Duke. If the latter, go to UCLA. Is sacrificing absolute chances for biglaw worth making CA a guarantee?


I feel like we tango with one another in this forum. :wink:

Not to hastily question what you said from here (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=150004), the sources that OP used in putting together the data are varied, which beg the question of how consistent these data are to one another. I try to use the same source of data, so even if they are wrong (invalid), they are at least reliable.

http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/goto%20l ... s_main.pdf
http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf

But definitely agree on the regional placement breakdown.

barry
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Re: UCLA worth if for shot at Cali (give up T13??)

Postby barry » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:21 pm

Duke consistently and significantly outplaces UCLA, if you're just looking for the best job prospects go Duke

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bk1
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Re: UCLA worth if for shot at Cali (give up T13??)

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:23 pm

tea_drinker wrote:I feel like we tango with one another in this forum. :wink:


No problem, I enjoy it. :)

The data from that thread (I believe), comes from USNWR and USNWR gets that data straight from the NLJ itself for NLJ250 (who asks the firms to break it down and is thus not subject to reporting bias). You can take a look at the '05, '07, '08, '09, and '10 official NLJ data linked at the top of this thread (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=152447). The clerkship data comes from USNWR as well but is reported from schools so I think that may be subject to reporting bias. But all the data comes from the same source (USNWR) even though that poster culled it from secondhand sources, mainly because USNWR data requires a paid subscription to access.

When looking at the NLJ data over the past half decade or so, it is pretty clear that Duke is has a definite edge over UCLA generally.

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tea_drinker
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Re: UCLA worth if for shot at Cali (give up T13??)

Postby tea_drinker » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:32 pm

bk1 wrote:
The data from that thread (I believe), comes from USNWR and USNWR gets that data straight from the NLJ itself for NLJ250 (who asks the firms to break it down and is thus not subject to reporting bias). You can take a look at the '05, '07, '08, '09, and '10 official NLJ data linked at the top of this thread (http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 2&t=152447). The clerkship data comes from USNWR as well but is reported from schools so I think that may be subject to reporting bias. But all the data comes from the same source (USNWR) even though that poster culled it from secondhand sources, mainly because USNWR data requires a paid subscription to access.

When looking at the NLJ data over the past half decade or so, it is pretty clear that Duke is has a definite edge over UCLA generally.


Yeah, I saw the 20% differences in '05, '07, '08 (we don't have '06). UCLA closed the gap in '09 and '10, possibly due to the economy and UCLA has a major legal market to fall back on. I am not sure if the economy will recover and in that case, Duke may not gain back that 20% difference in big firm placement. I agree that Duke does have an edge over UCLA in general.

dukey
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Re: UCLA worth if for shot at Cali (give up T13??)

Postby dukey » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:33 pm

barry wrote:Duke consistently and significantly outplaces UCLA, if you're just looking for the best job prospects go Duke


OP has no ties to LA...

OP, go to UCLA

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bk1
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Re: UCLA worth if for shot at Cali (give up T13??)

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:36 pm

tea_drinker wrote:Yeah, I saw the 20% differences in '05, '07, '08 (we don't have '06). UCLA closed the gap in '09 and '10, possibly due to the economy and UCLA has a major legal market to fall back on. I am not sure if the economy will recover and in that case, Duke may not gain back that 20% difference in big firm placement. I agree that Duke does have an edge over UCLA in general.


Agreeing with you generally, but my thoughts on the placement difference:

Duke has the biggest legal market to fall back on (NYC, where it primarily places). I think a lot of Duke's edge was lost because of how crushed the South is and that lot of Southerners go to Duke and aim for those markets, but that is just a hypothesis.

TheThreader
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Re: UCLA worth if for shot at Cali (give up T13??)

Postby TheThreader » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:38 am

does anyone know the % of biglaw from duke that is NYC

TheThreader
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Re: UCLA worth if for shot at Cali (give up T13??)

Postby TheThreader » Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:24 pm

??????

whymeohgodno
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Re: UCLA worth if for shot at Cali (give up T13??)

Postby whymeohgodno » Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:30 pm

ku1185 wrote:You want LA. You have no ties to LA. Go to LA. And save money while you're at it.


+1. I've heard LA is hard to break into without ties.

flexityflex86
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Re: UCLA worth if for shot at Cali (give up T13??)

Postby flexityflex86 » Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:57 pm

I'd pick UCLA personally in this situation if LA was my goal. Duke is not that much better than UCLA.

Vlaims
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Re: UCLA worth if for shot at Cali (give up T13??)

Postby Vlaims » Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:55 am

Am I the only one wondering what the forum notables think?

Seriously though, it sounds like you have two great choices. Which means that, no matter what, you will be filled with regret after your decision. Good luck.

BeachandRun23
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Re: UCLA worth if for shot at Cali (give up T13??)

Postby BeachandRun23 » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:11 am

What is more imporant? Working biglaw or working in Cali?

If you just want biglaw, go to duke.

If you really want cali, then go to ucla, because with no ties its going to take some work out of duke.




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