Need to decide fast! U of Wisconsin or Loyola LA Forum

[danielle9281]

I know they are in two separate areas of the country but I am having a hard time deciding between the University of Wisconsin and Loyola. Here are the facts I am concerned with when deciding. I am thinking UW because I am offered the 30K scholly, tuition is cheaper for MN reciprocity with WI, and the COL is a lot cheaper. Also, UW is a tier 1 and there are not as many schools to compete with in the area. But I am still interested in Loyola, because I would love to live in LA and I received an 87K scholly to attend. The problem is I hear about a lot of Loyola students without work, and that competing against USC, UCLA, etc makes finding a biglaw job harder. In addition, COL is outrageous.

What school would you choose if you had to decide? Please do not ask me questions about location, I would be fine in either area, but of course LA would be nicer. I am more worried about job prospects and getting a high paying salary. I read that UW's average private firm salary is 108,000, with 60% of graduates entering private firms, while Loyola’s is only 80,000, with only 40% of its graduates in private firms. I am not sure if this is true and that is why I am looking for help!

Please give me your opinion of what you think I should do and what YOU would do if you had to choose between those schools. Thank you!

[patrickd139]

Location is dispositive. If you want LA, go to Loyola. If you want Wisconsin, go to Wisco. For me, it's as simple as that.

Where are you from? Do you have ties to either legal market other than a law school acceptance?

[Marionberry]

Also, since you mentioned this in the other thread, what are the stipulationss on both scholarships? If Loyola is top 1/3, and UW has less restrictive or no stips, UW is probably a better choice.

[gbpackerbacker]

Location is dispositive. If you want LA, go to Loyola. If you want Wisconsin, go to Wisco. For me, it's as simple as that.

TITCR

[danielle9281]

Location is dispositive. If you want LA, go to Loyola. If you want Wisconsin, go to Wisco. For me, it's as simple as that.

TITCR

I want to go to LA, but it is not worth it if I can't even get a decent job or if I can't afford to live and enjoy myself out there unless I take out a ton of loan money to support myself. Obviously if I do really well I shouldn’t have a problem with finding a job, but I want the best odds.

What I am wondering is if Loyola is a good school out in California and if larger firms respect the school enough to hire from there. I am positive that I can be successful at UW and it is close to home (MN), but can I at Loyola with it being tier 2 next to all the tier 1 schools that I will be competing with. Also, is there even a way to live cheaply in LA if I had roommates?

[tea_drinker]

Location is dispositive. If you want LA, go to Loyola. If you want Wisconsin, go to Wisco. For me, it's as simple as that.

TITCR

+1

To digress, I think UWis is a good choice for you. It is cheaper than Loyola in your case (MN resident), and your perception on job prospects coming out of these school are somewhat true.

Edit: posted this after your post, so definitely go to UW since you will beat yourself to dead if things don't turn out well for you in LA.

[patrickd139]

Location is dispositive. If you want LA, go to Loyola. If you want Wisconsin, go to Wisco. For me, it's as simple as that.

TITCR

I want to go to LA, but it is not worth it if I can't even get a decent job or if I can't afford to live and enjoy myself out there unless I take out a ton of loan money to support myself. Obviously if I do really well I shouldn’t have a problem with finding a job, but I want the best odds.

What I am wondering is if Loyola is a good school out in California and if larger firms respect the school enough to hire from there. I am positive that I can be successful at UW and it is close to home (MN), but can I at Loyola with it being tier 2 next to all the tier 1 schools that I will be competing with. Also, is there even a way to live cheaply in LA if I had roommates?

Have you even been to LA? Scoped out cost of living? Researched the legal market in depth?

[071816]

Lol. Why would you even be considering Wisconsin over Loyola if you want LA, especially with that scholarship? Stop being such a rankings whore. Loyola is a much better option if you want LA. Period.

Edit: if you want Wisconsin got there. Just beware that it is a MUCH smaller market than LA. Also, you can live economically in LA with roommates. COL is high in LA but you can definitely make it work.

[Hannibal]

Why is it that I have yet to see a single "choosing a law school" thread involving Loyola where the OP voluntarily mentions that their Loyola scholly has a top 30% stip?

[haus]

Although not a deciding factor, it is a nice added bonus that graduates from UW do not need to take the bar exam (at least for those who will practice in WI).

[Regionality]

You have to weigh if you would be happy in the midwest, because if your living preferences were similar Wisconsin would win the day.

If you go to WI you will not be living in LA for at least 5-6 years unless you are the 1 out of the 250 students graduating each year to get a job in LA.

If you go to Loyola you might be living in LA jobless...and you CERTAINLY will not be getting a job in any midwest market (Twin Cities or Chicago)

I hate LA too.

[danielle9281]

Location is dispositive. If you want LA, go to Loyola. If you want Wisconsin, go to Wisco. For me, it's as simple as that.

TITCR

I want to go to LA, but it is not worth it if I can't even get a decent job or if I can't afford to live and enjoy myself out there unless I take out a ton of loan money to support myself. Obviously if I do really well I shouldn’t have a problem with finding a job, but I want the best odds.

What I am wondering is if Loyola is a good school out in California and if larger firms respect the school enough to hire from there. I am positive that I can be successful at UW and it is close to home (MN), but can I at Loyola with it being tier 2 next to all the tier 1 schools that I will be competing with. Also, is there even a way to live cheaply in LA if I had roommates?

Have you even been to LA? Scoped out cost of living? Researched the legal market in depth?

I have not been out to LA, but I have done a lot of research on places to live and talked to other students who are planning on attending there. As far as the legal market, I have done quite a bit, but plan on doing a lot more. It's somewhat misleading though. Most of the information I find on graduates from Loyola and Firms in LA are on people who graduated 10+ years ago from law school and at that time the economy wasn't like it is now. That is why I am trying to hear from people who actually live in the area or who attend Loyola.

I don't want to take a year off; even though I could have gotten into better schools had I applied to them. So these are the two schools I am choosing from and would like any advice I could get.

[danielle9281]

Lol. Why would you even be considering Wisconsin over Loyola if you want LA, especially with that scholarship? Stop being such a rankings whore. Loyola is a much better option if you want LA. Period.

Edit: if you want Wisconsin got there. Just beware that it is a MUCH smaller market than LA. Also, you can live economically in LA with roommates. COL is high in LA but you can definitely make it work.

haha rankings whore, funny. Anyways I wasn't until I started getting on sites such as these. People on here and other websites make me feel like nothing is ever good enough. If you know of some good places in LA where I would be able to pay $600 a month or less with roommates that would be great! And yes I know that is probably inconceivable in LA, but that is what I can easily get in WI and wouldn't have to worry about being so broke or taking out more loans to live.

[071816]

Lol. Why would you even be considering Wisconsin over Loyola if you want LA, especially with that scholarship? Stop being such a rankings whore. Loyola is a much better option if you want LA. Period.

Edit: if you want Wisconsin got there. Just beware that it is a MUCH smaller market than LA. Also, you can live economically in LA with roommates. COL is high in LA but you can definitely make it work.

haha rankings whore, funny. Anyways I wasn't until I started getting on sites such as these. People on here and other websites make me feel like nothing is ever good enough. If you know of some good places in LA where I would be able to pay $600 a month or less with roommates that would be great! And yes I know that is probably inconceivable in LA, but that is what I can easily get in WI and wouldn't have to worry about being so broke or taking out more loans to live.

I mean I have seen lots of places in LA where rent is like 1200 a month. With a roommate, it would be around 600 each. But honestly, since you are from the area and already have a life in the midwest + it's cheaper, just go to Wisconsin.

[danielle9281]

Lol. Why would you even be considering Wisconsin over Loyola if you want LA, especially with that scholarship? Stop being such a rankings whore. Loyola is a much better option if you want LA. Period.

Edit: if you want Wisconsin got there. Just beware that it is a MUCH smaller market than LA. Also, you can live economically in LA with roommates. COL is high in LA but you can definitely make it work.

haha rankings whore, funny. Anyways I wasn't until I started getting on sites such as these. People on here and other websites make me feel like nothing is ever good enough. If you know of some good places in LA where I would be able to pay $600 a month or less with roommates that would be great! And yes I know that is probably inconceivable in LA, but that is what I can easily get in WI and wouldn't have to worry about being so broke or taking out more loans to live.

I mean I have seen lots of places in LA where rent is like 1200 a month. With a roommate, it would be around 600 each. But honestly, since you are from the area and already have a life in the midwest + it's cheaper, just go to Wisconsin.

Yes, but I would rather have a life there. I don't mind moving away from home, it’s what I have always wanted to do. I do know people out in LA and I believe I have distant family out there also. No serious ties here other than close friends, but more of them are spread out and can't visit them much anyways.

[Regionality]

This decision is seriously turning on whether you can find a cheap place to live in LA?

A quick search on craigslist turns up hundreds of rooms for under 600 bucks in central LA near the school. Do I know LA geography to know whether these are in the ghetto or not? No, but certainly some are in fine locations relatively near the school.

If you're decently motivated to save money you can live for very cheap in LA...most of the city are not millionaires.

[patrickd139]

I have not been out to LA, but I have done a lot of research on places to live and talked to other students who are planning on attending there. As far as the legal market, I have done quite a bit, but plan on doing a lot more. It's somewhat misleading though. Most of the information I find on graduates from Loyola and Firms in LA are on people who graduated 10+ years ago from law school and at that time the economy wasn't like it is now. That is why I am trying to hear from people who actually live in the area or who attend Loyola.

[redacted emotional personal stuff]

I don't want to take a year off; even though I could have gotten into better schools had I applied to them. So these are the two schools I am choosing from and would like any advice I could get.

Both are decent schools, but the stipulation at Loyola is seriously a concern. That alone would make me go to Wisco.

I get the sense from your post that this is a pretty heavy emotional decision in a "get out cause anywhere is better than here" kind of way. Whatever you decide, please don't make your decision based on that. It won't end well.

It's pretty obvious I'm pro-Wisconsin. I think the support system you've got close, the significant ties to the area (as opposed to absolutely zero ties to LA, from all appearances) and the scholarship considerations should make this a fairly easy decision.

Alternatively, sit out and apply next cycle. I can't imagine a reason why you would regret doing so that can't be soundly rationalized away.

[danielle9281]

You have to weigh if you would be happy in the midwest, because if your living preferences were similar Wisconsin would win the day.

If you go to WI you will not be living in LA for at least 5-6 years unless you are the 1 out of the 250 students graduating each year to get a job in LA.

If you go to Loyola you might be living in LA jobless...and you CERTAINLY will not be getting a job in any midwest market (Twin Cities or Chicago)

I hate LA too.

I am fine with getting a job in the Midwest and if I decide later, I can move out to LA. Although, I do not want to miss out on my chance to get out there, but I don't want to be jobless either.

[Magnolia]

Wisconsin, absolutely.

More than likely you will lose you Loyola scholarship, and paying sticker for 2L and 3L for the 8th best school in an over-saturated state is a terrible idea, even if you would prefer LA. In this case, not drowning in debt trumps geographical preference, especially considering you were originally planning to go to Wisconsin anyway.

[danielle9281]

I have not been out to LA, but I have done a lot of research on places to live and talked to other students who are planning on attending there. As far as the legal market, I have done quite a bit, but plan on doing a lot more. It's somewhat misleading though. Most of the information I find on graduates from Loyola and Firms in LA are on people who graduated 10+ years ago from law school and at that time the economy wasn't like it is now. That is why I am trying to hear from people who actually live in the area or who attend Loyola.

[redacted emotional personal stuff]

I don't want to take a year off; even though I could have gotten into better schools had I applied to them. So these are the two schools I am choosing from and would like any advice I could get.

Both are decent schools, but the stipulation at Loyola is seriously a concern. That alone would make me go to Wisco.

I get the sense from your post that this is a pretty heavy emotional decision in a "get out cause anywhere is better than here" kind of way. Whatever you decide, please don't make your decision based on that. It won't end well.

It's pretty obvious I'm pro-Wisconsin. I think the support system you've got close, the significant ties to the area (as opposed to absolutely zero ties to LA, from all appearances) and the scholarship considerations should make this a fairly easy decision.

Alternatively, sit out and apply next cycle. I can't imagine a reason why you would regret doing so that can't be soundly rationalized away.

True, I just don’t think I want the break and risk not doing as well on the LSAT. Moving somewhere like LA is not the most important decision. Overall, the most important decision is my chance of getting a good paying legal job. I have gotten mixed messages about LA; some that say you may not get the dream $160K a year job, but a high chance of getting 80-100K job if work at it. And others saying that so many Loyola students are unemployed and prospect are extremely low. I don’t want to risk going out there, just because of location. I need to know what my prospects would actually be like. Same goes for WI, except I usually hear great things about UW.

Also, is it extremely hard to get into the top 30%, when that means the top 100? Just doesn’t seem all that hard if I work at it. I may be totally wrong.

[Hannibal]

Also, is it extremely hard to get into the top 30%, when that means the top 100? Just doesn’t seem all that hard if I work at it. I may be totally wrong.

Yup.

It's not all about hard work either. Everyone at Loyola probably has some money with that stipulation.

[danielle9281]

Wisconsin, absolutely.

More than likely you will lose you Loyola scholarship, and paying sticker for 2L and 3L for the 8th best school in an over-saturated state is a terrible idea, even if you would prefer LA. In this case, not drowning in debt trumps geographical preference, especially considering you were originally planning to go to Wisconsin anyway.

I was actually originally planning on going somewhere in MN, but my best friend lives in Milwaukee so I decided to apply to UW and Marquette at the last minute just for more options. It wasn't until a month ago that I realized UW was a great choice. (I turned down Marquette $82K last Friday). Anyways, thank you for the response I totally agree. I wouldn't attend any school at sticker price, maybe a T14 but I would really have to think about it, so I definitely would not want that at a tier 2 school that is surrounded by so many other law schools.

[danielle9281]

This decision is seriously turning on whether you can find a cheap place to live in LA?

A quick search on craigslist turns up hundreds of rooms for under 600 bucks in central LA near the school. Do I know LA geography to know whether these are in the ghetto or not? No, but certainly some are in fine locations relatively near the school.

If you're decently motivated to save money you can live for very cheap in LA...most of the city are not millionaires.

No that isn't my main deciding factor, just one of the things I am worried about.

[patrickd139]

True, I just don’t think I want the break and risk not doing as well on the LSAT. Moving somewhere like LA is not the most important decision. Overall, the most important decision is my chance of getting a good paying legal job. I have gotten mixed messages about LA; some that say you may not get the dream $160K a year job, but a high chance of getting 80-100K job if work at it. And others saying that so many Loyola students are unemployed and prospect are extremely low. I don’t want to risk going out there, just because of location. I need to know what my prospects would actually be like. Same goes for WI, except I usually hear great things about UW.

Also, is it extremely hard to get into the top 30%, when that means the top 100? Just doesn’t seem all that hard if I work at it. I may be totally wrong.

Taking a year off and retaking the LSAT are not synonymous. What are your numbers right now?

As for getting a good-paying job, I think your chances are much higher in the Midwest than LA, especially in the six-figure range. You may not get it immediately, but it'll be objectively easier to get. Like a poster said above, you're looking at attending the (arguably) 8th best school in an oversaturated, highly desirable legal market. That means to snag a "good" job by your definition, you're likely going to need to be higher than the requisite rank to keep your scholarship (think top 5-10% of your class). That the classes are huge definitely does not work in your favor. Which brings me to the class rank...

Conventional wisdom on TLS is that you should plan on graduating at the median of whatever school you go to, no matter what its rank. There are a myriad of reasons this is the case, and I don't have time to list them out for you, but a quick browse of the forums will get you up to speed.

In the end, you absolutely cannot guarantee with any certainty that you will be in the top 1/3 of your class. It's mathematically and realistically a terrible idea to make your plans contingent on being in the top 1/3 of any law school class any where.

[danielle9281]

Although not a deciding factor, it is a nice added bonus that graduates from UW do not need to take the bar exam (at least for those who will practice in WI).

Definite plus! Makes for a less stressful 3L.