Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:34 pm

A poster on collegeconfidential's law school section posted a thread titled "The Truth About Law Schools". He is a May magna cum laude graduate from an Ivy (Penn), had a very high GPA & scored a 151 on the LSAT.

FiveSermon
Posts: 1507
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:56 pm

Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby FiveSermon » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:35 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:A poster on collegeconfidential's law school section posted a thread titled "The Truth About Law Schools". He is a May magna cum laude graduate from an Ivy (Penn), had a very high GPA & scored a 151 on the LSAT.


Confused as to high this applies here but I didn't read the entire thread.

User avatar
orm518
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:23 pm

Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby orm518 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:37 pm

FiveSermon wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:A poster on collegeconfidential's law school section posted a thread titled "The Truth About Law Schools". He is a May magna cum laude graduate from an Ivy (Penn), had a very high GPA & scored a 151 on the LSAT.


Confused as to high this applies here but I didn't read the entire thread.


I think you answered your own question.

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:38 pm

Read the two posts above my post in this thread.

FiveSermon
Posts: 1507
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:56 pm

Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby FiveSermon » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:39 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Read the two posts above my post in this thread.


I see thanks. Do you have a link to that thread on cc? Bored and would like to read it.

forps
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:35 pm

Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby forps » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:43 pm

I hope I had that GPA..


Anyway, I agree with the one who said op screwed up the apps. Even with LSAT score of 155, I think 3.9 GPA should have delievered much higher scholarship / admit that the actual result.

Forget about law school for another year. Study freaking hard on taking LSAT for 5 months and take the one after June testing.

You will be in better shape.


AND. Please show your application essays to your friends, professors, or mentors.

You should really spend some time on your app.


If you've spent less than two weeks on your app. You may have made any kind of mistakes on your app. Or your essay may have sucked.

Unless you wrote "I know you are not reading this LOL!!!!" on answering essay question from the LSAT, your app gotta have something to do with your current result.


Bottom line, RETAKE.

User avatar
Veyron
Posts: 3598
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:50 am

Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby Veyron » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:43 pm

puravidamae wrote:
Veyron wrote:
puravidamae wrote:Ok everyone, I am a long time lurker on this forum and have never posted anything because most of the time I believe I already know the answer. However, I would like to explain my personal situation and receive feedback regarding my specific situation. First off, here is the list of schools I applied to and the results…

Phoenix School of Law – accepted w/ 15,000 year scholarship
California Western – accepted w/ full tuition and books for first year, ½ tuition for 2nd and 3rd year if I maintain an 80% or better.
Seattle University – accepted at sticker
University of Denver – accepted at sticker
University of Arizona – waitlisted
University of San Diego – waitlisted
University of Oregon – waitlisted
University of Miami – waitlisted/alternate applicant
Lewis and Clark – rejected
Arizona State – pending

Ok, so I was raised in a single-parent household along with my three siblings. To make a long sob story short, let’s just say we have always struggled to get by and I would describe my family as poor. I have been out of undergrad for nearly 5 years and my work experience since has consisted of working for several different non profit organizations, mainly dealing with youth advocacy and juvenile delinquency. I have never earned a salary of over 30k per year and currently I am unemployed.

I know that the majority of people on this forum have very strong credentials and would advise me to avoid Cal Western like the plague, but I am seriously considering attending (obviously due to the scholarship offer). I have always wanted to attend law school and busted my ass to get a great GPA (3.9) to help me achieve my goal. Obviously the LSAT has been a lot of trouble for me. I have taken it twice, the first time I took it was in 2007. One score I cancelled and the other a 155 (I know not great). I am an Arizona resident and would love to attend UofA or ASU but it doesn’t look too promising at this point. I have definitely considered re-taking the lsat and waiting yet another year but I really would like to start this fall, especially since I have been basically putting off attending for 4-5 years now and I am currently unemployed. So, what do you all think? Am I crazy/stupid for considering attending Cal Western? Any input is appreciated. Thanks

Pura Vida


30k is more than you can expect to make even if you keep that scholarship. Add in debt from COL expenses. . .

Also, what kind of mickey mouse undergrad gives out 3.9's to people that can't crack a 155 on the LSAT?


haha you are funny. Where did you go to undergrad? I didn't have many choices as I had to stay in-state. I went to one of the 3 public universities in AZ. I'm sure that answers your question of how I was given a 3.9. I mean everyone knows that if you go to school in Arizona, you are given a 3.9. I got a 3.9 in high school too and I am too embarassed to even talk about my SAT score. Anyway, good luck in life. I'm familiar with you from lurking around here so I will not take anything you say too seriously. I mean dude, you are smarter than me....you want a cookie?


No, I want Arizona schools to have real academic standards and I want the unqualified to stop tarnishing my profession.

User avatar
TatteredDignity
Posts: 1520
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:06 am

Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby TatteredDignity » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:53 pm

FiveSermon wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:Read the two posts above my post in this thread.


I see thanks. Do you have a link to that thread on cc? Bored and would like to read it.


http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/law ... sions.html

Careful. There's a lot of fail in there.

FiveSermon
Posts: 1507
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:56 pm

Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby FiveSermon » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:56 pm

0LNewbie wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:Read the two posts above my post in this thread.


I see thanks. Do you have a link to that thread on cc? Bored and would like to read it.


http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/law ... sions.html

Careful. There's a lot of fail in there.


If only he had frequented TLS during his 0L years.

pretzel
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:10 pm

Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby pretzel » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:57 pm

OP, is the 3.9 GPA your LSAC GPA?

That's way above the 75th GPA at both ASU and UofA, and your LSAT isn't that far below ASU's 25th. Seems weird to me that one of them didn't bite.

If the 3.9 is your school GPA, it seems possible that LSAC could have adjusted you down.

Sorry if this has already been asked...

User avatar
Veyron
Posts: 3598
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:50 am

Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby Veyron » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:58 pm

0LNewbie wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:Read the two posts above my post in this thread.


I see thanks. Do you have a link to that thread on cc? Bored and would like to read it.


http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/law ... sions.html

Careful. There's a lot of fail in there.


Fair enough, but I would imagine that it at least happens less here. Honestly, undergraduate education is going to hell in this country.

FiveSermon
Posts: 1507
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:56 pm

Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby FiveSermon » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:00 pm

Veyron wrote:
0LNewbie wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:Read the two posts above my post in this thread.


I see thanks. Do you have a link to that thread on cc? Bored and would like to read it.


http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/law ... sions.html

Careful. There's a lot of fail in there.


Fair enough, but I would imagine that it at least happens less here. Honestly, undergraduate education is going to hell in this country.


I can't see a simple fix though. The material is just too easy. Only way to fix it would be some kind of curve but then who would major in liberal arts? Hell if I'm going to be graded on a curve I'll actually major in something that gives me viable job prospects.

LSATfromNC
Posts: 735
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:29 pm

Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby LSATfromNC » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:01 pm

I don't see how a 155 is embarrassing nor how that shows a lack of intelligence. It may not be as great as everyone on this board, and it may not get OP into the best schools, but it is better than half the nation. Everyone who takes the LSAT could be a genius, yet most of them won't have a good score.

OP, you have a great GPA, which shows you are intelligent and have a great work ethic. The best advice I can give you would be to get a credit card, take a reputable LSAT course, spend the hundred bucks and have someone review your essays from start to finish, and get some dick like Veyron or whatever the name is to check out your applications, so they will point out any little mistake you have on it. Good luck on getting into one of the Arizona schools you wanted. You sound like you deserve. Just remember to maintain your down to earth attitude once you make it there.

User avatar
Veyron
Posts: 3598
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:50 am

Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby Veyron » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:05 pm

[/quote]

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/law ... sions.html

Careful. There's a lot of fail in there.[/quote]

Fair enough, but I would imagine that it at least happens less here. Honestly, undergraduate education is going to hell in this country.[/quote]

I can't see a simple fix though. The material is just too easy. Only way to fix it would be some kind of curve but then who would major in liberal arts? Hell if I'm going to be graded on a curve I'll actually major in something that gives me viable job prospects.[/quote]

Yah, that's a problem I guess. Might as well abandon the principle of grades entirely at this point. I think then we would see much more reliance on standardized testing by employers and schools that cared about these things (a la management consulting/LSAT, etc.) I still find this preferable to pretending that grades mean something. I mean seriously, the illusion that GPA still means something leads to ridiculous outcomes like preference for the guy with the 4.0 from Dolt U over the guy with a 3.0 from MIT.
Last edited by Veyron on Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
TatteredDignity
Posts: 1520
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:06 am

Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby TatteredDignity » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:06 pm

I don't understand why more employers don't use aptitude tests.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18401
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby bk1 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:09 pm

LSATfromNC wrote:I don't see how a 155 is embarrassing nor how that shows a lack of intelligence. It may not be as great as everyone on this board, and it may not get OP into the best schools, but it is better than half the nation. Everyone who takes the LSAT could be a genius, yet most of them won't have a good score.


You do realize that about 1/2 the people who take the LSAT don't actually go to law school, thus a median LSAT score is actually putting yourself at the bottom of all law school students.

Your advice regarding prepping and retaking was sound though.

User avatar
northwood
Posts: 4872
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 7:29 pm

Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby northwood » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:10 pm

OP There is something very wrong with your application. Your GPA should help you out a bit- but in all honesty you need to raise your LSAT at least 5 points. Study hard- and work on your essays for a while. Send out your applications early ( before Thanksgiving) and see how the cycle goes. Just because you are unemployed now doesnt mean you should go to law school this upcoming school year. Taking another year off wont hurt anything in the long run- and doing better on the test will help you a ton. Especially if you send in your applications super early. You may think its just your lsat- but chances are its more than just that. Contact at least one of the schools that rejected you in late May/June and have them go over your application with you either in person or over the phone. The admissions person will let you know which parts of your application need the most work. Take that information and use the time from June to October to work on those sections. Having to be in the top 20% of anyschool is very very hard to do. IN fact- you would be better off planning on losing hte scholarship. Would you attend Cal Western at full tuition plus living expenses for 2 years plus living expenses for the first year?

You may not like what people are saying- but this is a huge decision. Taking a year off and working at any job and studying for that test is a great idea. Think of it not as studying for admissions- but giving yourself the better oppotunity at lowering the cost of attendance- and being rewarded with a sholarship for your efforts. If someone were to offer you $25,000 to study for the test and wait a year- would you? How about $50,000 or even$ 81,000+? Because every dollar that you earn from a scholarship is a dollar ( plus interest) that you dont have to pay bak. You can either pay a lot of money now- or wait a year and increase your chances at getting paid ( by a big scholarship) after a few more months of studying for the test. By waiting another 6 months- and fixing your application and lsat score you will be eligible for possibly more scholarship money. That is a financial offer that you should not pass up

User avatar
amers73
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:30 pm

Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby amers73 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:17 pm

Do not waste that GPA at a TTT/TTTT.

puravidamae
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:36 am

Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby puravidamae » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:39 pm

pretzel wrote:OP, is the 3.9 GPA your LSAC GPA?

That's way above the 75th GPA at both ASU and UofA, and your LSAT isn't that far below ASU's 25th. Seems weird to me that one of them didn't bite.

If the 3.9 is your school GPA, it seems possible that LSAC could have adjusted you down.

Sorry if this has already been asked...


Thanks,
My LSAC GPA is indeed a 3.9. UofA waitlisted me and I still have not heard back from ASU.

puravidamae
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:36 am

Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby puravidamae » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:43 pm

Veyron wrote:
puravidamae wrote:
Veyron wrote:
puravidamae wrote:Ok everyone, I am a long time lurker on this forum and have never posted anything because most of the time I believe I already know the answer. However, I would like to explain my personal situation and receive feedback regarding my specific situation. First off, here is the list of schools I applied to and the results…

Phoenix School of Law – accepted w/ 15,000 year scholarship
California Western – accepted w/ full tuition and books for first year, ½ tuition for 2nd and 3rd year if I maintain an 80% or better.
Seattle University – accepted at sticker
University of Denver – accepted at sticker
University of Arizona – waitlisted
University of San Diego – waitlisted
University of Oregon – waitlisted
University of Miami – waitlisted/alternate applicant
Lewis and Clark – rejected
Arizona State – pending

Ok, so I was raised in a single-parent household along with my three siblings. To make a long sob story short, let’s just say we have always struggled to get by and I would describe my family as poor. I have been out of undergrad for nearly 5 years and my work experience since has consisted of working for several different non profit organizations, mainly dealing with youth advocacy and juvenile delinquency. I have never earned a salary of over 30k per year and currently I am unemployed.

I know that the majority of people on this forum have very strong credentials and would advise me to avoid Cal Western like the plague, but I am seriously considering attending (obviously due to the scholarship offer). I have always wanted to attend law school and busted my ass to get a great GPA (3.9) to help me achieve my goal. Obviously the LSAT has been a lot of trouble for me. I have taken it twice, the first time I took it was in 2007. One score I cancelled and the other a 155 (I know not great). I am an Arizona resident and would love to attend UofA or ASU but it doesn’t look too promising at this point. I have definitely considered re-taking the lsat and waiting yet another year but I really would like to start this fall, especially since I have been basically putting off attending for 4-5 years now and I am currently unemployed. So, what do you all think? Am I crazy/stupid for considering attending Cal Western? Any input is appreciated. Thanks

Pura Vida


30k is more than you can expect to make even if you keep that scholarship. Add in debt from COL expenses. . .

Also, what kind of mickey mouse undergrad gives out 3.9's to people that can't crack a 155 on the LSAT?


haha you are funny. Where did you go to undergrad? I didn't have many choices as I had to stay in-state. I went to one of the 3 public universities in AZ. I'm sure that answers your question of how I was given a 3.9. I mean everyone knows that if you go to school in Arizona, you are given a 3.9. I got a 3.9 in high school too and I am too embarassed to even talk about my SAT score. Anyway, good luck in life. I'm familiar with you from lurking around here so I will not take anything you say too seriously. I mean dude, you are smarter than me....you want a cookie?


No, I want Arizona schools to have real academic standards and I want the unqualified to stop tarnishing my profession.

and where did you attend undergrad again, I missed that part. Obviously it wasn't an Ivy school becasue I am sure you would be throwing that in everybody's faces. What state did you go to undergrad?

puravidamae
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:36 am

Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby puravidamae » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:49 pm

LSATfromNC wrote:I don't see how a 155 is embarrassing nor how that shows a lack of intelligence. It may not be as great as everyone on this board, and it may not get OP into the best schools, but it is better than half the nation. Everyone who takes the LSAT could be a genius, yet most of them won't have a good score.

OP, you have a great GPA, which shows you are intelligent and have a great work ethic. The best advice I can give you would be to get a credit card, take a reputable LSAT course, spend the hundred bucks and have someone review your essays from start to finish, and get some dick like Veyron or whatever the name is to check out your applications, so they will point out any little mistake you have on it. Good luck on getting into one of the Arizona schools you wanted. You sound like you deserve. Just remember to maintain your down to earth attitude once you make it there.



Thanks so much! I think I am going to take a prep course, study my ass off, and re-take in Oct. In the meantime, I am still crosssing my fingers for ASU or to get off the waitlist at UofA.

puravidamae
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:36 am

Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby puravidamae » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:59 pm

northwood wrote:OP There is something very wrong with your application. Your GPA should help you out a bit- but in all honesty you need to raise your LSAT at least 5 points. Study hard- and work on your essays for a while. Send out your applications early ( before Thanksgiving) and see how the cycle goes. Just because you are unemployed now doesnt mean you should go to law school this upcoming school year. Taking another year off wont hurt anything in the long run- and doing better on the test will help you a ton. Especially if you send in your applications super early. You may think its just your lsat- but chances are its more than just that. Contact at least one of the schools that rejected you in late May/June and have them go over your application with you either in person or over the phone. The admissions person will let you know which parts of your application need the most work. Take that information and use the time from June to October to work on those sections. Having to be in the top 20% of anyschool is very very hard to do. IN fact- you would be better off planning on losing hte scholarship. Would you attend Cal Western at full tuition plus living expenses for 2 years plus living expenses for the first year?

You may not like what people are saying- but this is a huge decision. Taking a year off and working at any job and studying for that test is a great idea. Think of it not as studying for admissions- but giving yourself the better oppotunity at lowering the cost of attendance- and being rewarded with a sholarship for your efforts. If someone were to offer you $25,000 to study for the test and wait a year- would you? How about $50,000 or even$ 81,000+? Because every dollar that you earn from a scholarship is a dollar ( plus interest) that you dont have to pay bak. You can either pay a lot of money now- or wait a year and increase your chances at getting paid ( by a big scholarship) after a few more months of studying for the test. By waiting another 6 months- and fixing your application and lsat score you will be eligible for possibly more scholarship money. That is a financial offer that you should not pass up


Thank you for the reply

User avatar
dr123
Posts: 3503
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:38 am

Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby dr123 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:03 pm

bk1 wrote:
LSATfromNC wrote:I don't see how a 155 is embarrassing nor how that shows a lack of intelligence. It may not be as great as everyone on this board, and it may not get OP into the best schools, but it is better than half the nation. Everyone who takes the LSAT could be a genius, yet most of them won't have a good score.


You do realize that about 1/2 the people who take the LSAT don't actually go to law school, thus a median LSAT score is actually putting yourself at the bottom of all law school students.

Your advice regarding prepping and retaking was sound though.


That's a dangerous assumption to make. There are a lot of Low scoring students who apply to LS

kublaikahn
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:47 am

Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby kublaikahn » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:12 pm

If you can get a 165 once, you can get a 165 consistently. Keep studying. In the meantime, get off your mom's couch and get a job. :)

User avatar
awahoya
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:57 am

Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby awahoya » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:57 pm

northwood wrote:OP There is something very wrong with your application. Your GPA should help you out a bit- but in all honesty you need to raise your LSAT at least 5 points. Study hard- and work on your essays for a while. Send out your applications early ( before Thanksgiving) and see how the cycle goes. Just because you are unemployed now doesnt mean you should go to law school this upcoming school year. Taking another year off wont hurt anything in the long run- and doing better on the test will help you a ton. Especially if you send in your applications super early. You may think its just your lsat- but chances are its more than just that. Contact at least one of the schools that rejected you in late May/June and have them go over your application with you either in person or over the phone. The admissions person will let you know which parts of your application need the most work. Take that information and use the time from June to October to work on those sections. Having to be in the top 20% of anyschool is very very hard to do. IN fact- you would be better off planning on losing hte scholarship. Would you attend Cal Western at full tuition plus living expenses for 2 years plus living expenses for the first year?

You may not like what people are saying- but this is a huge decision. Taking a year off and working at any job and studying for that test is a great idea. Think of it not as studying for admissions- but giving yourself the better oppotunity at lowering the cost of attendance- and being rewarded with a sholarship for your efforts. If someone were to offer you $25,000 to study for the test and wait a year- would you? How about $50,000 or even$ 81,000+? Because every dollar that you earn from a scholarship is a dollar ( plus interest) that you dont have to pay bak. You can either pay a lot of money now- or wait a year and increase your chances at getting paid ( by a big scholarship) after a few more months of studying for the test. By waiting another 6 months- and fixing your application and lsat score you will be eligible for possibly more scholarship money. That is a financial offer that you should not pass up



After reading this thread, I think this is the best response; it encapsulates a lot of what other people are trying to tell you (a la retake), but also gives you the most solid reason to do so: “every dollar that you earn from a scholarship is a dollar (plus interest) that you don’t have to pay back.” You seem earnest and like you’re willing to work hard to see your dream of heading to law school through to the end (you do realize that it will be a ton of hard work once you DO enter, right?)- your GPA is great (no matter the institution), and I’m sure with work on your PS and application (there are usually people on this site willing to help) you’ll be able to see things through. If you need any tips on good ways to prepare for the LSAT given a lot of time on your hands, just let me know. I’m not unemployed, but living abroad in a rural area- which also meant that I didn’t take a class and had to travel a good distance to take the test.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: grades??, phelpsy, vm223 and 9 guests