Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

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puravidamae
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Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby puravidamae » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:41 pm

Ok everyone, I am a long time lurker on this forum and have never posted anything because most of the time I believe I already know the answer. However, I would like to explain my personal situation and receive feedback regarding my specific situation. First off, here is the list of schools I applied to and the results…

Phoenix School of Law – accepted w/ 15,000 year scholarship
California Western – accepted w/ full tuition and books for first year, ½ tuition for 2nd and 3rd year if I maintain an 80% or better.
Seattle University – accepted at sticker
University of Denver – accepted at sticker
University of Arizona – waitlisted
University of San Diego – waitlisted
University of Oregon – waitlisted
University of Miami – waitlisted/alternate applicant
Lewis and Clark – rejected
Arizona State – pending

Ok, so I was raised in a single-parent household along with my three siblings. To make a long sob story short, let’s just say we have always struggled to get by and I would describe my family as poor. I have been out of undergrad for nearly 5 years and my work experience since has consisted of working for several different non profit organizations, mainly dealing with youth advocacy and juvenile delinquency. I have never earned a salary of over 30k per year and currently I am unemployed.

I know that the majority of people on this forum have very strong credentials and would advise me to avoid Cal Western like the plague, but I am seriously considering attending (obviously due to the scholarship offer). I have always wanted to attend law school and busted my ass to get a great GPA (3.9) to help me achieve my goal. Obviously the LSAT has been a lot of trouble for me. I have taken it twice, the first time I took it was in 2007. One score I cancelled and the other a 155 (I know not great). I am an Arizona resident and would love to attend UofA or ASU but it doesn’t look too promising at this point. I have definitely considered re-taking the lsat and waiting yet another year but I really would like to start this fall, especially since I have been basically putting off attending for 4-5 years now and I am currently unemployed. So, what do you all think? Am I crazy/stupid for considering attending Cal Western? Any input is appreciated. Thanks

Pura Vida

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esq
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Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby esq » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:44 pm

Retake and reapply early.

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kapital98
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Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby kapital98 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:46 pm

Is this a flame?

How did you not get better scholarships with a 3.9/155??????

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redsoxfan2495
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Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby redsoxfan2495 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:46 pm

Retake, beyond any shadow of a doubt. You have a great GPA, and if you work hard and bring that score up your options will improve tremendously.

TheFactor
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Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby TheFactor » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:47 pm

ridiculous stips at cal western...don't go

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bk1
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Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby bk1 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:47 pm

Can you find another job to sustain yourself for a year if you were to retake? How hard and how well did you study for the LSAT?

Things are tough coming out of Cal Western and you'd need to bust your ass there to get a job. I'd actually guess that your job prospects financially wouldn't look drastically different coming out of Cal Western than they do now, except that you might be employed as a lawyer.

I really would advise finding a job to sustain yourself for a year and retaking the LSAT after putting as much time as you can into it. In the end, if you really want to be a lawyer, at least realize how bad T4's are when over 1/2 of their graduating class is employed as part time attorneys, not employed at all, or employed in jobs that don't require law school.

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buckilaw
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Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby buckilaw » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:49 pm

It would be beyond crazy stupid.

With a 3.9 GPA, a better LSAT, and a good story the sky would be the limit for you.

What's more, you could expect to recieve a lare amount of need based aid from schools that offer it. You would not have to provide any parental info on need access and since you have never made above 30k and are currently unemployed schools should note that you have a high level of financial need.

In summation, you could retake and reapply to get into much better schools. And your cost of attendance would probably be cheaper than at the T4 schools your thinking about now.

puravidamae
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Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby puravidamae » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:50 pm

kapital98 wrote:Is this a flame?

How did you not get better scholarships with a 3.9/155??????


Not a flame unfortunatley.

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redsoxfan2495
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Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby redsoxfan2495 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:51 pm

Seriously, if you can raise your score by ten points you go from looking at TTTT's to lower t14's.

puravidamae
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Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby puravidamae » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:02 pm

redsoxfan2495 wrote:Seriously, if you can raise your score by ten points you go from looking at TTTT's to lower t14's.


Thanks for the replies. Although I did not take a prep course for the LSAT I feel that I studied very hard. My practice test scores were usually in the 158-161 range. The highest score I ever got on a practice test was a 165 and my baseline taking the test cold was a 148 so I did improve quite a bit. I do believe I can improve though, although a 165 may be a stretch. I would definately be happy with a 160 on a re-take.

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Flips88
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Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby Flips88 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:07 pm

with a 3.9/155 and non-profit WE, you messed your apps up somehow.

puravidamae
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Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby puravidamae » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:12 pm

Flips88 wrote:with a 3.9/155 and non-profit WE, you messed your apps up somehow.

Thanks for replying
What makes you say this? Where do you think I should have been accepted to with my numbers? I don't feel like I messed up my apps, Im pretty sure it's my LSAT score.

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redsoxfan2495
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Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby redsoxfan2495 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:14 pm

puravidamae wrote:
redsoxfan2495 wrote:Seriously, if you can raise your score by ten points you go from looking at TTTT's to lower t14's.


Thanks for the replies. Although I did not take a prep course for the LSAT I feel that I studied very hard. My practice test scores were usually in the 158-161 range. The highest score I ever got on a practice test was a 165 and my baseline taking the test cold was a 148 so I did improve quite a bit. I do believe I can improve though, although a 165 may be a stretch. I would definately be happy with a 160 on a re-take.
I understand your desire to finally move on to law school, but personally I'd recommend studying hard and taking the LSAT one more time, then sending in early, polished apps. It might be hard to wait that one year, but the benefits could be enormous. Even a jump of a few points can make a big difference.

FiveSermon
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Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby FiveSermon » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:15 pm

Don't.

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Flips88
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Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby Flips88 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:16 pm

puravidamae wrote:
Flips88 wrote:with a 3.9/155 and non-profit WE, you messed your apps up somehow.

Thanks for replying
What makes you say this? Where do you think I should have been accepted to with my numbers? I don't feel like I messed up my apps, Im pretty sure it's my LSAT score.

I feel like with significant work experience, you should not have been wait lists at a lot of the places you were. Sure you were only a consider on LSP, but you had a strong GPA and strong WE that should have helped. Did you apply late? I would say retake in hopes of bumping up to a 160+ and apply early in September/October.

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loblaw
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Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby loblaw » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:18 pm

puravidamae wrote:
Flips88 wrote:with a 3.9/155 and non-profit WE, you messed your apps up somehow.

Thanks for replying
What makes you say this? Where do you think I should have been accepted to with my numbers? I don't feel like I messed up my apps, Im pretty sure it's my LSAT score.


Did you apply ridiculously late, have a character and fitness issue, or accidentally leave other schools' names in your PS? Did you go an online undergrad? I'm tempted to ask you to post your PS. Best advice is to retake--but honestly, though your LSAT is nothing to brag about, your cycle seriously underperforms your numbers.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby acrossthelake » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:19 pm

puravidamae wrote:California Western – accepted w/ full tuition and books for first year, ½ tuition for 2nd and 3rd year if I maintain an 80% or better.


So let's see here:

Your worst worst case scenario you don't maintain an 80% or better (a lot of schools make it so that very few ppl actually do this) and you don't get a job straight outand you sink 100K+ into debt with no safety net, and struggle for years and years to make rent and eat, even if you do get a job. You're basically significantly worse off than you are now.
Likelihood: Much higher than you should feel comfortable with.

Other bad scenarios:
You maintain an 80% or better, but don't get a job straight out, and still spend many years crushed under the burden of debt.
Likelihood: Still higher than you should feel comfortable with.
You don't maintain an 80% or better, but you get a job, but still spend many years crushed under the burden of debt.
Likelihood: Sadly, still higher than you should feel comfortable with.

Your good scenario:
You maintain an 80% or better and get a job, but it still doesn't pay much and you're really not better off from where you started financially.
Likelihood: Not too high, and this isn't even a great option anyway.

Your call, but I'd retake or not go.

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Moxie
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Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby Moxie » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:20 pm

When did you apply in the cycle? I'm surprised at these options for someone for a 3.9/155. The credited response is to retake the LSAT and reapply early next cycle, if possible.

If not, then I suppose Cal West is your best choice, but grad stipulations would make me very nervous.

ptblazer
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Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby ptblazer » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:20 pm

I can understand why you don't want to wait any longer, but I think it is in your best interest to retake the LSAT and reapply early.

Even if you just get 5 points higher you're looking at acceptances to all those schools and with a 3.9 you'll likely have nice scholarship options. If you really feel like you studied hard then I think you need to rethink HOW you were studying. Good luck.

puravidamae
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Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby puravidamae » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:35 pm

Flips88 wrote:
puravidamae wrote:
Flips88 wrote:with a 3.9/155 and non-profit WE, you messed your apps up somehow.

Thanks for replying
What makes you say this? Where do you think I should have been accepted to with my numbers? I don't feel like I messed up my apps, Im pretty sure it's my LSAT score.

I feel like with significant work experience, you should not have been wait lists at a lot of the places you were. Sure you were only a consider on LSP, but you had a strong GPA and strong WE that should have helped. Did you apply late? I would say retake in hopes of bumping up to a 160+ and apply early in September/October.


I applied at the end of November. If I re-take I will most likely not have enough time to fully prepare to take the June test as it's like 6 weeks away. So if I took the October test, scores would not come out until end of Oct/early Nov correct? Making it impossible to go complete earlier than the begining of November. Would early Nov be early enough?

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Flips88
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Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby Flips88 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:38 pm

puravidamae wrote:
Flips88 wrote:
puravidamae wrote:
Flips88 wrote:with a 3.9/155 and non-profit WE, you messed your apps up somehow.

Thanks for replying
What makes you say this? Where do you think I should have been accepted to with my numbers? I don't feel like I messed up my apps, Im pretty sure it's my LSAT score.

I feel like with significant work experience, you should not have been wait lists at a lot of the places you were. Sure you were only a consider on LSP, but you had a strong GPA and strong WE that should have helped. Did you apply late? I would say retake in hopes of bumping up to a 160+ and apply early in September/October.


I applied at the end of November. If I re-take I will most likely not have enough time to fully prepare to take the June test as it's like 6 weeks away. So if I took the October test, scores would not come out until end of Oct/early Nov correct? Making it impossible to go complete earlier than the begining of November. Would early Nov be early enough?

Early Nov is still way better than December or mid-January. Just refine your personal statement, get your LoRs all ready and perhaps get one updated, spritz up your resume and you can submit all your apps before you retake. If you improve significantly enough, you can throw apps at higher schools or places you get fee waivers for.

scammedhard
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Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby scammedhard » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:43 pm

Pura Vida:

Instead of wasting valuable time here by presenting us these incredibly AWFUL choices, I would strongly encourage you to re-start studying for LSAT to do what others have already told you to do: RETAKE, REAPPLY EARLY.

puravidamae
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Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby puravidamae » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:55 pm

I feel like with significant work experience, you should not have been wait lists at a lot of the places you were. Sure you were only a consider on LSP, but you had a strong GPA and strong WE that should have helped. Did you apply late? I would say retake in hopes of bumping up to a 160+ and apply early in September/October.[/quote]

I applied at the end of November. If I re-take I will most likely not have enough time to fully prepare to take the June test as it's like 6 weeks away. So if I took the October test, scores would not come out until end of Oct/early Nov correct? Making it impossible to go complete earlier than the begining of November. Would early Nov be early enough?[/quote]
Early Nov is still way better than December or mid-January. Just refine your personal statement, get your LoRs all ready and perhaps get one updated, spritz up your resume and you can submit all your apps before you retake. If you improve significantly enough, you can throw apps at higher schools or places you get fee waivers for.[/quote]

Thanks, the advise is appreciated.

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Veyron
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Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby Veyron » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:01 pm

puravidamae wrote:Ok everyone, I am a long time lurker on this forum and have never posted anything because most of the time I believe I already know the answer. However, I would like to explain my personal situation and receive feedback regarding my specific situation. First off, here is the list of schools I applied to and the results…

Phoenix School of Law – accepted w/ 15,000 year scholarship
California Western – accepted w/ full tuition and books for first year, ½ tuition for 2nd and 3rd year if I maintain an 80% or better.
Seattle University – accepted at sticker
University of Denver – accepted at sticker
University of Arizona – waitlisted
University of San Diego – waitlisted
University of Oregon – waitlisted
University of Miami – waitlisted/alternate applicant
Lewis and Clark – rejected
Arizona State – pending

Ok, so I was raised in a single-parent household along with my three siblings. To make a long sob story short, let’s just say we have always struggled to get by and I would describe my family as poor. I have been out of undergrad for nearly 5 years and my work experience since has consisted of working for several different non profit organizations, mainly dealing with youth advocacy and juvenile delinquency. I have never earned a salary of over 30k per year and currently I am unemployed.

I know that the majority of people on this forum have very strong credentials and would advise me to avoid Cal Western like the plague, but I am seriously considering attending (obviously due to the scholarship offer). I have always wanted to attend law school and busted my ass to get a great GPA (3.9) to help me achieve my goal. Obviously the LSAT has been a lot of trouble for me. I have taken it twice, the first time I took it was in 2007. One score I cancelled and the other a 155 (I know not great). I am an Arizona resident and would love to attend UofA or ASU but it doesn’t look too promising at this point. I have definitely considered re-taking the lsat and waiting yet another year but I really would like to start this fall, especially since I have been basically putting off attending for 4-5 years now and I am currently unemployed. So, what do you all think? Am I crazy/stupid for considering attending Cal Western? Any input is appreciated. Thanks

Pura Vida


30k is more than you can expect to make even if you keep that scholarship. Add in debt from COL expenses. . .

Also, what kind of mickey mouse undergrad gives out 3.9's to people that can't crack a 155 on the LSAT?

puravidamae
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Re: Seriously considering attending T4...help?!

Postby puravidamae » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:29 pm

Veyron wrote:
puravidamae wrote:Ok everyone, I am a long time lurker on this forum and have never posted anything because most of the time I believe I already know the answer. However, I would like to explain my personal situation and receive feedback regarding my specific situation. First off, here is the list of schools I applied to and the results…

Phoenix School of Law – accepted w/ 15,000 year scholarship
California Western – accepted w/ full tuition and books for first year, ½ tuition for 2nd and 3rd year if I maintain an 80% or better.
Seattle University – accepted at sticker
University of Denver – accepted at sticker
University of Arizona – waitlisted
University of San Diego – waitlisted
University of Oregon – waitlisted
University of Miami – waitlisted/alternate applicant
Lewis and Clark – rejected
Arizona State – pending

Ok, so I was raised in a single-parent household along with my three siblings. To make a long sob story short, let’s just say we have always struggled to get by and I would describe my family as poor. I have been out of undergrad for nearly 5 years and my work experience since has consisted of working for several different non profit organizations, mainly dealing with youth advocacy and juvenile delinquency. I have never earned a salary of over 30k per year and currently I am unemployed.

I know that the majority of people on this forum have very strong credentials and would advise me to avoid Cal Western like the plague, but I am seriously considering attending (obviously due to the scholarship offer). I have always wanted to attend law school and busted my ass to get a great GPA (3.9) to help me achieve my goal. Obviously the LSAT has been a lot of trouble for me. I have taken it twice, the first time I took it was in 2007. One score I cancelled and the other a 155 (I know not great). I am an Arizona resident and would love to attend UofA or ASU but it doesn’t look too promising at this point. I have definitely considered re-taking the lsat and waiting yet another year but I really would like to start this fall, especially since I have been basically putting off attending for 4-5 years now and I am currently unemployed. So, what do you all think? Am I crazy/stupid for considering attending Cal Western? Any input is appreciated. Thanks

Pura Vida


30k is more than you can expect to make even if you keep that scholarship. Add in debt from COL expenses. . .

Also, what kind of mickey mouse undergrad gives out 3.9's to people that can't crack a 155 on the LSAT?


haha you are funny. Where did you go to undergrad? I didn't have many choices as I had to stay in-state. I went to one of the 3 public universities in AZ. I'm sure that answers your question of how I was given a 3.9. I mean everyone knows that if you go to school in Arizona, you are given a 3.9. I got a 3.9 in high school too and I am too embarassed to even talk about my SAT score. Anyway, good luck in life. I'm familiar with you from lurking around here so I will not take anything you say too seriously. I mean dude, you are smarter than me....you want a cookie?




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