GULC vs. Vandy for California

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Vandy vs GULC for California

Poll ended at Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Vandy
30
37%
GULC
51
63%
 
Total votes: 81

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Magnolia
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Re: GULC vs. Vandy for California

Postby Magnolia » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:03 pm

FlanAl wrote:Thought I'd throw this out there for whitman and others peaking at this thread. I've now talked to four partners in my market (2 biglaw and 2 midlaw) and all of them were really impressed with gtown. Before I even tell them that I got in there they always list it as one of their "well obviously local school is good but its not Georgetown". It's probably not cool to directly quote these guys so I will basically say that they thought it was on the same level as any of NYU on down. My guess is that a lot of this is because I'm in a secondary market that pretty much only hires locals who went away to good schools and so they just lump all the good schools together. But thought I'd put it out there that for all of them except for the Vandy alum Gtown was on a different level than Vandy.

My boss is a managing partner of a vault firm and head of our office's hiring committee and he's constantly raving about GULC too. I can't figure out why, but he also sees it as on par with NYU/Columbia. And yet, our firm doesn't go to GULC's OCI and we haven't hired a GULC JD candidate since '07. This doesn't totally apply to your situation, as we're in NYC, but I guess my point is to take what those partners say about GULC with a grain of salt, because it doesn't necessarily match hiring practices.

Also, my boss speaks as highly of Vandy as he does of NU (though I guess they're both TTTT in comparison to GULC...) But, again, grain of salt.

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bk1
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Re: GULC vs. Vandy for California

Postby bk1 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:03 pm

@rad: You really think Vandy in this case? I mean with 150k debt that still forces someone to be primarily biglaw or bust in my mind. I feel like GULC and Vandy place comparably in general though I get the feeling from CA employers that there is a definite edge to GULC. I guess if it is for general employment you may as well take the 50k, but it just still seems so rough to be paying 150k+ for Vandy.

FlanAl wrote:loving the beach is close to surfing. at least you love the snow that opens up a lot of possibilities.


Yeah but I love it like a Californian loves snow (e.g. only when there are slopes to go skiing and not when it is a fact of daily life on flat land).

DAisaka09
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Re: GULC vs. Vandy for California

Postby DAisaka09 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:03 pm

You'll still need a biglaw job to pay of 140,000 in debt anyway right?

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Magnolia
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Re: GULC vs. Vandy for California

Postby Magnolia » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:07 pm

FlanAl wrote:Also SO will be in New York next year. Distance isn't really that big of a deal though (we did 3 years trans-atlantic). But any thoughts on how hard/easy it is to get from Nashville to NYC.

The flight is pretty easy, maybe 1.5-2 hours. But it can be pricey. It cost me $400 roundtrip to get to Nashville and I booked just over a month in advance. I'm sure you can find lower depending on the time of the year, how early you book, how flexible your travel dates are, etc.

Revolver066
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Re: GULC vs. Vandy for California

Postby Revolver066 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:06 pm

Situations like these (and probably my future situation) make my really despise the lack of cost-sensible (southern) CA options. Those top 1/3 stips from Loyola and Pepperdine are brutal. I also hear Davis and Hastings are kind of stingy with their money (totally anecdotal evidence however). Of course, it's also my fault for being a splitter :oops:

If I were in your position, I would probably lean towards GULC as well, but I'm a naive 0L.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: GULC vs. Vandy for California

Postby jenesaislaw » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:15 pm

I'm at Vandy and worked in California this past summer. The reputation there is great, and people are seriously underestimating it.

I do think it's kind of an odd decision to be grappling too much with. First, I think the money at Vandy has to be really attractive. Second, the schools are seriously different. I love being here, and so do almost all of my classmates. People also really love GULC (though I don't know if they're as fanatical). D.C and Nashville are both great, for different reasons. And the school size would be really important to me too.

If you've been to Vandy and liked it, don't let a few TLSers sway you.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: GULC vs. Vandy for California

Postby jenesaislaw » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:17 pm

DAisaka09 wrote:You'll still need a biglaw job to pay of 140,000 in debt anyway right?


IBR is available if he does government or public interest. That eliminates a lot of the debt concern, along with freedom.

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Marionberry
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Re: GULC vs. Vandy for California

Postby Marionberry » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:26 pm

If you're considering PI/gov work, it's worth taking a comparison of both schools' LRAPs into consideration.

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whitman
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Re: GULC vs. Vandy for California

Postby whitman » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:31 pm

jenesaislaw wrote:
DAisaka09 wrote:You'll still need a biglaw job to pay of 140,000 in debt anyway right?


IBR is available if he does government or public interest. That eliminates a lot of the debt concern, along with freedom.


May I direct you to my thread? Exact same options plus Penn, minus need for California (but would love anywhere on the West Coast - only ties are to Washington).
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=152936

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FlanAl
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Re: GULC vs. Vandy for California

Postby FlanAl » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:38 pm

Magnolia wrote:
FlanAl wrote:Thought I'd throw this out there for whitman and others peaking at this thread. I've now talked to four partners in my market (2 biglaw and 2 midlaw) and all of them were really impressed with gtown. Before I even tell them that I got in there they always list it as one of their "well obviously local school is good but its not Georgetown". It's probably not cool to directly quote these guys so I will basically say that they thought it was on the same level as any of NYU on down. My guess is that a lot of this is because I'm in a secondary market that pretty much only hires locals who went away to good schools and so they just lump all the good schools together. But thought I'd put it out there that for all of them except for the Vandy alum Gtown was on a different level than Vandy.

My boss is a managing partner of a vault firm and head of our office's hiring committee and he's constantly raving about GULC too. I can't figure out why, but he also sees it as on par with NYU/Columbia. And yet, our firm doesn't go to GULC's OCI and we haven't hired a GULC JD candidate since '07. This doesn't totally apply to your situation, as we're in NYC, but I guess my point is to take what those partners say about GULC with a grain of salt, because it doesn't necessarily match hiring practices.

Also, my boss speaks as highly of Vandy as he does of NU (though I guess they're both TTTT in comparison to GULC...) But, again, grain of salt.


I have a hard time getting it too. It has always been ranked in the same place.

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FlanAl
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Re: GULC vs. Vandy for California

Postby FlanAl » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:42 pm

whitman wrote:
jenesaislaw wrote:
DAisaka09 wrote:You'll still need a biglaw job to pay of 140,000 in debt anyway right?


IBR is available if he does government or public interest. That eliminates a lot of the debt concern, along with freedom.


May I direct you to my thread? Exact same options plus Penn, minus need for California (but would love anywhere on the West Coast - only ties are to Washington).
http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 1&t=152936


if you weren't as PI focussed I'd say Penn for sure. I'm currently on their waitlist and if I get off (no idea what those odds are) it is probably where I will go. It is both close to the beach and close to my SO. At the same time a guy who was in a hiring position (a couple of years ago) at a big firm told me point blank that he thought gtown was the same as Penn unless I did a JD/MBA.

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whitman
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Re: GULC vs. Vandy for California

Postby whitman » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:43 pm

FlanAl wrote:
Magnolia wrote:
FlanAl wrote:Thought I'd throw this out there for whitman and others peaking at this thread. I've now talked to four partners in my market (2 biglaw and 2 midlaw) and all of them were really impressed with gtown. Before I even tell them that I got in there they always list it as one of their "well obviously local school is good but its not Georgetown". It's probably not cool to directly quote these guys so I will basically say that they thought it was on the same level as any of NYU on down. My guess is that a lot of this is because I'm in a secondary market that pretty much only hires locals who went away to good schools and so they just lump all the good schools together. But thought I'd put it out there that for all of them except for the Vandy alum Gtown was on a different level than Vandy.

My boss is a managing partner of a vault firm and head of our office's hiring committee and he's constantly raving about GULC too. I can't figure out why, but he also sees it as on par with NYU/Columbia. And yet, our firm doesn't go to GULC's OCI and we haven't hired a GULC JD candidate since '07. This doesn't totally apply to your situation, as we're in NYC, but I guess my point is to take what those partners say about GULC with a grain of salt, because it doesn't necessarily match hiring practices.

Also, my boss speaks as highly of Vandy as he does of NU (though I guess they're both TTTT in comparison to GULC...) But, again, grain of salt.


I have a hard time getting it too. It has always been ranked in the same place.



I don't get this either and have been trying not to let it cloud my judgment. Everyone thinks its a top 10 or 5 school. Even lawyers who went to schools like Duke and NYU are impressed by GTown. What the hell?

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Marionberry
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Re: GULC vs. Vandy for California

Postby Marionberry » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:52 pm

It's worth remembering two things when looking at GULC's NLJ numbers. First, that the school has a heavy PI/gov focus, and historically sends more people to gov and PI combined than almost any other school. Second, that many of the part-time students stay with the same employers (both business and government) that they have when they begin law school, and don't pursue private legal practice. Now, the extent to which the second occurs I'm not sure about, but these two factors go a long way in explaining the relatively small, but not insignificant, gap in firm placement relative to other schools.

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FlanAl
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Re: GULC vs. Vandy for California

Postby FlanAl » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:57 pm

Marionberry wrote:It's worth remembering two things when looking at GULC's NLJ numbers. First, that the school has a heavy PI/gov focus, and historically sends more people to gov and PI combined than almost any other school. Second, that many of the part-time students stay with the same employers (both business and government) that they have when they begin law school, and don't pursue private legal practice. Now, the extent to which the second occurs I'm not sure about, but these two factors go a long way in explaining the relatively small, but not insignificant, gap in firm placement relative to other schools.


I said this earlier when it was my only option and was told to stop drinking the kool-aid haha. Nah the TLS hate on gtown and its love for Vandy definitely conflict with what I'm hearing from people in the industry. However statistics are hard to argue with and gtown's career service has been really un-helpful in my efforts to try and get a handle on those numbers.

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FlanAl
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Re: GULC vs. Vandy for California

Postby FlanAl » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:02 pm

also any thoughts on how strict the background check for PI stuff is? (I had long hair in high school and most people who didn't know me well would tell you that I was constantly using illegal substances. this isn't the case but i feel like even my very rare usage will get blown out of proportion if someone from high school or whatever was interviewed) I definitely understand that it is extremely difficult to get but if it was an option then gtown's lrap would come into play here. As of now I'm pretty sure its just not an option even though I would be very interested.

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whitman
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Re: GULC vs. Vandy for California

Postby whitman » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:05 pm

PI as in public interest? You must mean something else because NGOs, etc, ain't interviewing your high school classmates.

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FlanAl
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Re: GULC vs. Vandy for California

Postby FlanAl » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:07 pm

yeah guess I meant more the government side of things.

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Grizz
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Re: GULC vs. Vandy for California

Postby Grizz » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:08 pm

bk1 wrote:@rad: You really think Vandy in this case? I mean with 150k debt that still forces someone to be primarily biglaw or bust in my mind. I feel like GULC and Vandy place comparably in general though I get the feeling from CA employers that there is a definite edge to GULC. I guess if it is for general employment you may as well take the 50k, but it just still seems so rough to be paying 150k+ for Vandy.


Paying $150k is rough anywhere but I think I'd rather take the $50k. The advantage to GULC would be DC, with the opportunities being in DC can afford you, especially through networking with govt. and whatnot. In California, I'd take the $50k. I mean hell, that's a year or tuition, or a year's salary if you get a job at a small firm.

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drylo
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Re: GULC vs. Vandy for California

Postby drylo » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:11 pm

FlanAl wrote:Nah the TLS hate on gtown and its love for Vandy definitely conflict with what I'm hearing from people in the industry.


From the four people you have talked to (well, three, because the Vandy alum doesn't count or something)?

I'm not going to hate on Georgetown's reputation, but I think the whole "Georgetown is a top 10 school, right?" and "Vandy is just for people who want to live in the South" things (or at least the juxtaposition of the two as if Georgetown is a far superior law school) are more ignorant than anything else.

I will also say that I would have taken Vandy over GULC straight up--hence, I didn't even apply to Georgetown (and I did visit the law school before I started my cycle). I agree with jenesaislaw that the schools are very different. Actually, I agree with basically everything jenesaislaw said in this thread.

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Grizz
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Re: GULC vs. Vandy for California

Postby Grizz » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:19 pm

drylo wrote:
FlanAl wrote:Nah the TLS hate on gtown and its love for Vandy definitely conflict with what I'm hearing from people in the industry.


From the four people you have talked to (well, three, because the Vandy alum doesn't count or something)?

I'm not going to hate on Georgetown's reputation, but I think the whole "Georgetown is a top 10 school, right?" and "Vandy is just for people who want to live in the South" things (or at least the juxtaposition of the two as if Georgetown is a far superior law school) are more ignorant than anything else.

I will also say that I would have taken Vandy over GULC straight up--hence, I didn't even apply to Georgetown (and I did visit the law school before I started my cycle). I agree with jenesaislaw that the schools are very different. Actually, I agree with basically everything jenesaislaw said in this thread.


I know quite a few people who picked Vandy over GULC as well.

Also JNSL is pretty spot on generally.

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FlanAl
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Re: GULC vs. Vandy for California

Postby FlanAl » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:38 pm

nah not because the alum didn't count but because he was the only one out of the four that was an alum of gtown or vandy so my guess would be that his opinion is a bit biased. As far as those statements being ignorant I don't really know what to say thats just what was said in my secondary market by some partners at firms I'd which is probably like to work at. I'm definitely not knocking vandy in fact i'm leaning that way currently (probably change in an hour). I'm just trying to get realistic about their placement in California.

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20160810
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Re: GULC vs. Vandy for California

Postby 20160810 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:56 pm

bk1 wrote:
FlanAl wrote:That being said I'm still pretty torn between the two. Whats probably messed up is that I'm leaning towards gtown mostly because it isn't as land-locked as vandy.


As a fellow Californian, I understand how hard it is to break away from this irrational line of thinking.

Especially given that Sac/Davis is for all intents and purposes a midwestern city and quite landlocked.

danielle9281
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Re: GULC vs. Vandy for California

Postby danielle9281 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:16 pm

Revolver066 wrote:Situations like these (and probably my future situation) make my really despise the lack of cost-sensible (southern) CA options. Those top 1/3 stips from Loyola and Pepperdine are brutal. I also hear Davis and Hastings are kind of stingy with their money (totally anecdotal evidence however). Of course, it's also my fault for being a splitter :oops:

If I were in your position, I would probably lean towards GULC as well, but I'm a naive 0L.



I know this is off topic, but is it really that hard to be in the top 1/3 of a class at Loyola when top 1/3 means top 100 or so? I am seriously wondering, so no angry responses :)

chipchip
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Re: GULC vs. Vandy for California

Postby chipchip » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:33 pm

GULC 2L here. I know around 10 people or so at least (I honestly have no idea what our final numbers are) that are definitely going to California this summer for summer associate positions with big firms. Grade ranged from Top 10/15 to Top 1/3 to less than that (and some were not even on main journal but on others). Ties are important in this situation, obviously, but they were definitely not disadvantaged.

Sure, sticker is daunting (I'm paying plenty as well), but it's doable. People keep focusing on class size, but we still place fairly well. I'm not sure how Vandy has done this year; I know there aren't any from there in my DC firm, though I'm not sure about others.

Visit the schools, see which one you like, Vandy's fun, but keep in mind that you will be in Nashville and more limited in internship opportunities during the year compared to DC.

ETA: I really liked Vanderbilt when I visited, and I had a pretty solid scholarship offer from them too. I don't regret going to GULC, but I'm also certain that I would have enjoyed Vanderbilt as well. The faculty was really welcoming, as were the students. Their Career Services people seemed pretty on the ball too, for a law school.

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Grizz
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Re: GULC vs. Vandy for California

Postby Grizz » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:09 pm

chipchip wrote:GULC 2L here. I know around 10 people or so at least (I honestly have no idea what our final numbers are) that are definitely going to California this summer for summer associate positions with big firms. Grade ranged from Top 10/15 to Top 1/3 to less than that (and some were not even on main journal but on others). Ties are important in this situation, obviously, but they were definitely not disadvantaged.


We had 12 people go to Cali as per the last released list. They seem to be at pretty solid firms judging from the released list, IIRC. This may not seem like a lot, but keep in mind Vandy has a pretty varied geographic distribution and a small class so not a lot of people want Cali anyway.




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