Big Law

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Patriot1208
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Re: Big Law

Postby Patriot1208 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:29 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
Ty Webb wrote:This thread has reminded me that most people don't see the correlation between higher cost of living and higher quality of life. There's a reason it costs a lot to live in NYC. It's because people want to live there. People want to live there because it's infinitely better than Cleveland fucking Ohio.


You're ignoring the fact that there are plenty of downsides to living in NYC (along with plenty of upsides to living in secondary markets).

This. LOL at thinking that NYC offers that much higher QOL over most other cities. The reason NYC has such high cost of living is because the demand for living there is high. But this isn't because people think it is a lot better than columbus or st. louis, it's because the best jobs are in NYC. Nobody wants to retire there.

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powerlawyer06
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Re: Big Law

Postby powerlawyer06 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:37 pm

bk1 wrote:
Cavalier wrote:When law students (and prospective law students) refer to "getting big law," they are usually just referring to getting a job at a firm that pays market.


This.


I am going to have to disagree because there are 15+ firms that pay market in my hometown (90k) and have less than 100 attorneys and "0" prestige and somewhat limited exit options (when compared to legitimate Big Law). I don't think anyone considers them big law. They are most definitely midlaw.

I would say Big Law = market salary, exit options, and a little bit of prestige.

keg411
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Re: Big Law

Postby keg411 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:39 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
Ty Webb wrote:This thread has reminded me that most people don't see the correlation between higher cost of living and higher quality of life. There's a reason it costs a lot to live in NYC. It's because people want to live there. People want to live there because it's infinitely better than Cleveland fucking Ohio.


You're ignoring the fact that there are plenty of downsides to living in NYC (along with plenty of upsides to living in secondary markets).

This. LOL at thinking that NYC offers that much higher QOL over most other cities. The reason NYC has such high cost of living is because the demand for living there is high. But this isn't because people think it is a lot better than columbus or st. louis, it's because the best only jobs are in NYC.


Fixed for BigLaw. Everyone wants secondary markets with high $$$ and low COL. Those jobs just don't really exist.

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Ty Webb
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Re: Big Law

Postby Ty Webb » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:08 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
Ty Webb wrote:This thread has reminded me that most people don't see the correlation between higher cost of living and higher quality of life. There's a reason it costs a lot to live in NYC. It's because people want to live there. People want to live there because it's infinitely better than Cleveland fucking Ohio.


You're ignoring the fact that there are plenty of downsides to living in NYC (along with plenty of upsides to living in secondary markets).

This. LOL at thinking that NYC offers that much higher QOL over most other cities. The reason NYC has such high cost of living is because the demand for living there is high. But this isn't because people think it is a lot better than columbus or st. louis, it's because the best jobs are in NYC. Nobody wants to retire there.


You've sold me. I would much rather live in Columbus, Cleveland, Dayton, Pittsburgh, Morgantown, etc. than NYC. Perhaps I'll do that for 30 years and do what every other Ohioan dreams of - retiring in South Carolina.

http://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/char ... id=1946300

HeavenWood
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Re: Big Law

Postby HeavenWood » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:10 pm

Ty Webb wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
Ty Webb wrote:This thread has reminded me that most people don't see the correlation between higher cost of living and higher quality of life. There's a reason it costs a lot to live in NYC. It's because people want to live there. People want to live there because it's infinitely better than Cleveland fucking Ohio.


You're ignoring the fact that there are plenty of downsides to living in NYC (along with plenty of upsides to living in secondary markets).

This. LOL at thinking that NYC offers that much higher QOL over most other cities. The reason NYC has such high cost of living is because the demand for living there is high. But this isn't because people think it is a lot better than columbus or st. louis, it's because the best jobs are in NYC. Nobody wants to retire there.


You've sold me. I would much rather live in Columbus, Cleveland, Dayton, Pittsburgh, Morgantown, etc. than NYC. Perhaps I'll do that for 30 years and do what every other Ohioan dreams of - retiring in South Carolina.

http://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/char ... id=1946300


No one's trying to tell you what to do, brah. It's just ridiculous (if not insulting) to question people's intelligence for preferring to make their livings elsewhere.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Big Law

Postby Patriot1208 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:14 pm

Ty Webb wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
Ty Webb wrote:This thread has reminded me that most people don't see the correlation between higher cost of living and higher quality of life. There's a reason it costs a lot to live in NYC. It's because people want to live there. People want to live there because it's infinitely better than Cleveland fucking Ohio.

You're ignoring the fact that there are plenty of downsides to living in NYC (along with plenty of upsides to living in secondary markets).

This. LOL at thinking that NYC offers that much higher QOL over most other cities. The reason NYC has such high cost of living is because the demand for living there is high. But this isn't because people think it is a lot better than columbus or st. louis, it's because the best jobs are in NYC. Nobody wants to retire there.

You've sold me. I would much rather live in Columbus, Cleveland, Dayton, Pittsburgh, Morgantown, etc. than NYC. Perhaps I'll do that for 30 years and do what every other Ohioan dreams of - retiring in South Carolina.
http://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/char ... id=1946300
The only one of those cities I'd live in long term would be columbus. But if you are making market in columbus you certainly do not need to retire to South Carolina if you are financially savvy. You'll be retiring, at a much better place when taking into account compound interest, than your peers in NYC. And if you seriously think NYC has that much more to offer than large midwestern cities you just haven't visited them. For god's sake 1700 dollars a month in Chicago buys you the same apartment that 2700 dollars a month buys you in manhatten. If NYC is where you want to be then more power to you. But seriously acting as if it has some great QOL that so many other cities lack is just being willfully blind.

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Ty Webb
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Re: Big Law

Postby Ty Webb » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:22 pm

I'm not talking about quality of apartment/house.

I'm talking about being able to eat at a great restaurant every single night if you wanted to. Or being able to visit Citi Field on demand. Pro sports galore, tons of shows, great concerts in big and small venues, the world's greatest park. Maybe those aren't for you, but those are the things I think about when I think about quality of life. I can enjoy my family and friends equally as well in any city. To me, QOL is what the city offers you compared to other cities. Obviously being able to save more money is a part of the equation for most people, but it's just one part.

And people from Ohio don't retire to South Carolina because they "have" to. They do it because it allows them to escape the state for something better.

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Re: Big Law

Postby HeavenWood » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:28 pm

Ty Webb wrote:I'm not talking about quality of apartment/house.

I'm talking about being able to eat at a great restaurant every single night if you wanted to. Or being able to visit Citi Field on demand. Pro sports galore, tons of shows, great concerts in big and small venues, the world's greatest park. Maybe those aren't for you, but those are the things I think about when I think about quality of life. I can enjoy my family and friends equally as well in any city. To me, QOL is what the city offers you compared to other cities. Obviously being able to save more money is a part of the equation for most people, but it's just one part.


New York isn't the only place this is possible, you know. I've been more than satisfied by Washington's (and even Philadelphia's) amenities. No American city can truly compare to New York in these regards, but there's also something to be said for living somewhere less expensive and less crowded, with friendlier people and a more laid-back culture. I can appreciate New York for a visit, but for me (and many other people), the negatives far outweigh the positives. 8 million people disagree, and that's their prerogative.

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swc65
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Re: Big Law

Postby swc65 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:32 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
Ty Webb wrote:I'm not talking about quality of apartment/house.

I'm talking about being able to eat at a great restaurant every single night if you wanted to. Or being able to visit Citi Field on demand. Pro sports galore, tons of shows, great concerts in big and small venues, the world's greatest park. Maybe those aren't for you, but those are the things I think about when I think about quality of life. I can enjoy my family and friends equally as well in any city. To me, QOL is what the city offers you compared to other cities. Obviously being able to save more money is a part of the equation for most people, but it's just one part.


New York isn't the only place this is possible, you know. I've been more than satisfied by Washington's (and even Philadelphia's) amenities. No American city can truly compare to New York in these regards, but there's also something to be said for living somewhere less expensive and less crowded, with friendlier people and a more laid-back culture.



I hear people talk about this a lot. But, there are tons of neighborhoods in and around NYC that offer lower COL, fewer people, and all that Jazz. NYC is more than midtown, UES, LWS, and similarly priced places. Just food for thought. Personally, I'd give my left nut to have an NYC market salary in a lower COL city.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Big Law

Postby Patriot1208 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:33 pm

Ty Webb wrote:I'm not talking about quality of apartment/house.

I'm talking about being able to eat at a great restaurant every single night if you wanted to. Or being able to visit Citi Field on demand. Pro sports galore, tons of shows, great concerts in big and small venues, the world's greatest park. Maybe those aren't for you, but those are the things I think about when I think about quality of life. I can enjoy my family and friends equally as well in any city. To me, QOL is what the city offers you compared to other cities. Obviously being able to save more money is a part of the equation for most people, but it's just one part.

And people from Ohio don't retire to South Carolina because they "have" to. They do it because it allows them to escape the state for something better.

People from every state tend to retire south, so that is just a stupid statement. And it is extremely disingenious for you to sit here and say that how far your money goes in the quality of the things you buy doesn't matter. It may not matter for you, but most people are much rather going to live in a townhouse with 3 bedrooms than live in a 1 bedroom railroad room in NYC for the same price. Also, concerts go everywhere, it's not as if NYC regularly gets concerts other cities go to. Pro sports in NYC isn't any better than pro sports in other major cities like Chicago and it lacks college sports which many believe is better than pro sports. And besides broadway there is no better shows in NYC than anywhere else. Also LOL at acting like central park is an attraction when these other states have national parks. And the food and things like that are, on average, the same everywhere. There may be some great places but I guarantee you aren't frequenting these places enough to be worth 5 figures. Most of us cook or get fast deli type foods all the time anyways.

The point is this, you may love NYC, and all the power to you. But to sit here and act as if NYC has all this stuff that other places don't have is just flat out wrong. NYC is vastly overrated because people sit and act like it is disney worl every day. Sorry, you are going ot be working your ass off, cooking, and drinking at hole in the wall bars you can get anywhere. No one is constantly frequenting fancy restaurants and drinking at the best clubs every night. At that point, especially when you are pay double the price for beer, you care more about things like the size of your apartment. I don't care if you love NYC, because that is fine, but you are an idiot for acting like it has this vast array of attractions that aren't equaled in ohter places.

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Re: Big Law

Postby HeavenWood » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:35 pm

swc65 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
Ty Webb wrote:I'm not talking about quality of apartment/house.

I'm talking about being able to eat at a great restaurant every single night if you wanted to. Or being able to visit Citi Field on demand. Pro sports galore, tons of shows, great concerts in big and small venues, the world's greatest park. Maybe those aren't for you, but those are the things I think about when I think about quality of life. I can enjoy my family and friends equally as well in any city. To me, QOL is what the city offers you compared to other cities. Obviously being able to save more money is a part of the equation for most people, but it's just one part.


New York isn't the only place this is possible, you know. I've been more than satisfied by Washington's (and even Philadelphia's) amenities. No American city can truly compare to New York in these regards, but there's also something to be said for living somewhere less expensive and less crowded, with friendlier people and a more laid-back culture.



I hear people talk about this a lot. But, there are tons of neighborhoods in and around NYC that offer lower COL, fewer people, and all that Jazz. NYC is more than midtown, UES, LWS, and similarly priced places. Just food for thought. Personally, I'd give my left nut to have an NYC market salary in a lower COL city.


Fair enough, but even on Staten Island, the median home price is $461,000. I find that egregious.

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Re: Big Law

Postby Patriot1208 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:41 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
swc65 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
Ty Webb wrote:I'm not talking about quality of apartment/house.

I'm talking about being able to eat at a great restaurant every single night if you wanted to. Or being able to visit Citi Field on demand. Pro sports galore, tons of shows, great concerts in big and small venues, the world's greatest park. Maybe those aren't for you, but those are the things I think about when I think about quality of life. I can enjoy my family and friends equally as well in any city. To me, QOL is what the city offers you compared to other cities. Obviously being able to save more money is a part of the equation for most people, but it's just one part.

New York isn't the only place this is possible, you know. I've been more than satisfied by Washington's (and even Philadelphia's) amenities. No American city can truly compare to New York in these regards, but there's also something to be said for living somewhere less expensive and less crowded, with friendlier people and a more laid-back culture.

I hear people talk about this a lot. But, there are tons of neighborhoods in and around NYC that offer lower COL, fewer people, and all that Jazz. NYC is more than midtown, UES, LWS, and similarly priced places. Just food for thought. Personally, I'd give my left nut to have an NYC market salary in a lower COL city.


Fair enough, but even on Staten Island, the median home price is $461,000. I find that egregious.

And you also realize that even with public transportatin you are living at a high price, though lower than manhatten, in an area that makes your commute 60-90 minutes. Where in chicago I can live in that same apartmentment and walk to my office.

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handlesthetruth
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Re: Big Law

Postby handlesthetruth » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:46 pm

Ty Webb wrote:This thread has reminded me that most people don't see the correlation between higher cost of living and higher quality of life. There's a reason it costs a lot to live in NYC. It's because people want to live there. People want to live there because it's infinitely better than Cleveland fucking Ohio.


One of the most self-righteous, assuming, and narrow-minded posts on TLS ^. Genuinely offended.

Strokes for folks dood.

I think you overlook that some people like clean air and small (or no) crime rates, taxes, traffic, rats (ha), (insert a million other things), etc.

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beachbum
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Re: Big Law

Postby beachbum » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:50 pm

I feel like Ty Webb probably has no fucking idea what he's talking about, and likely hasn't spent significant time in most (any?) of the cities he's railing against. NYC is a great place to be, but it's significantly overpriced in what it offers relative to most other big cities. And the weather sucks.

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Re: Big Law

Postby Sandro » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:54 pm

I love the "NYC is the greatest place in the world!!!!11" people. I just picture some greasy Mets fan chowing down on a hot dog saying the same thing.

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swc65
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Re: Big Law

Postby swc65 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:00 pm

swc65 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
Ty Webb wrote:I'm not talking about quality of apartment/house.

I hear people talk about this a lot. But, there are tons of neighborhoods in and around NYC that offer lower COL, fewer people, and all that Jazz. NYC is more than midtown, UES, LWS, and similarly priced places. Just food for thought. Personally, I'd give my left nut to have an NYC market salary in a lower COL city.


Fair enough, but even on Staten Island, the median home price is $461,000. I find that egregious.

And you also realize that even with public transportatin you are living at a high price, though lower than manhatten, in an area that makes your commute 60-90 minutes. Where in chicago I can live in that same apartmentment and walk to my office.


jersey FTW, just a few stops away from downtown and tons cheaper- your paycheck is also bigger.

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Re: Big Law

Postby Sandro » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:01 pm

I'm talking about being able to eat at a great restaurant every single night if you wanted to (oh come on, what major cities dont have tons of great restraunts, as if every other city only has mcdonalds and taco bell) Or being able to visit Citi Field on demand(Who wouldnt love to be surrounded by mets fans "on demand"??) Pro sports galore(multiple cities, some not even that big, have NFL/NBA/NHL/CFB), tons of shows(Give you that, NYC is probably the place for that but some people arent too much into "shows"), great concerts in big and small venues(Oh gee, only NYC has these?!?!), the world's greatest park( 8) ).
Last edited by Sandro on Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bk1
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Re: Big Law

Postby bk1 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:02 pm

powerlawyer06 wrote:
bk1 wrote:
Cavalier wrote:When law students (and prospective law students) refer to "getting big law," they are usually just referring to getting a job at a firm that pays market.


This.


I am going to have to disagree because there are 15+ firms that pay market in my hometown (90k) and have less than 100 attorneys and "0" prestige and somewhat limited exit options (when compared to legitimate Big Law). I don't think anyone considers them big law. They are most definitely midlaw.

I would say Big Law = market salary, exit options, and a little bit of prestige.


I mean I think that is valid too, but of course people differ on what biglaw exactly is. The reason I would still call that biglaw is that because people who are gunning for the big firms in very small markets aren't trying to then lateral out of biglaw into a DC DoJ position so the prestige is less relevant in that case.

HeavenWood
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Re: Big Law

Postby HeavenWood » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:03 pm

swc65 wrote:
swc65 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
Ty Webb wrote:I'm not talking about quality of apartment/house.

I hear people talk about this a lot. But, there are tons of neighborhoods in and around NYC that offer lower COL, fewer people, and all that Jazz. NYC is more than midtown, UES, LWS, and similarly priced places. Just food for thought. Personally, I'd give my left nut to have an NYC market salary in a lower COL city.


Fair enough, but even on Staten Island, the median home price is $461,000. I find that egregious.

And you also realize that even with public transportatin you are living at a high price, though lower than manhatten, in an area that makes your commute 60-90 minutes. Where in chicago I can live in that same apartmentment and walk to my office.


jersey FTW, just a few stops away from downtown and tons cheaper- your paycheck is also bigger.


Fort Lee wouldn't be terrible, but I feel like people who live in Jersey and work in NYC are primarily doing so for the paycheck. I can make 145-160k in Philly BigLaw and live in Center City very comfortably.

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swc65
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Re: Big Law

Postby swc65 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:11 pm

^^ wow I really messed up those quotes!

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Zabini
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Re: Big Law

Postby Zabini » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:18 pm

lol at how this thread turned into a NYC vs the world debate. NYC is by far the most overrated city on the planet.

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ahduth
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Re: Big Law

Postby ahduth » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:25 pm

Zabini wrote:lol at how this thread turned into a NYC vs the world debate. NYC is by far the most overrated city on the planet.


Naw that's London.

I guess I originally posed the question, because I was curious to see if everyone was planning AmLaw 100, or if big law really did mean 100k starting in Talahasee.

Also... NYC certainly isn't the only city you can get 160k in. The others tend to be equally expensive to live in however lol.

rose711
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Re: Big Law

Postby rose711 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:33 pm

1. I think that biglaw correlates to the type of work you can get there, much more than the salary. Biglaw firms represent the major players in major deals of all kinds. But I know that isn't how the term "biglaw" is used in this forum.

2. If most of the biglaw jobs are in NYC - what are all the haters going to do when they live there? I love NYC so I am completely biased. But if you are not going to be happy living there, then you should target your school selection and job applications according - which I think would tend away from biglaw or, I guess, NYC biglaw, which is where most of the jobs are going to be found.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Big Law

Postby Patriot1208 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:46 pm

rose711 wrote:1. I think that biglaw correlates to the type of work you can get there, much more than the salary. Biglaw firms represent the major players in major deals of all kinds. But I know that isn't how the term "biglaw" is used in this forum.

2. If most of the biglaw jobs are in NYC - what are all the haters going to do when they live there? I love NYC so I am completely biased. But if you are not going to be happy living there, then you should target your school selection and job applications according - which I think would tend away from biglaw or, I guess, NYC biglaw, which is where most of the jobs are going to be found.

I don't hate nyc, in fact I like nyc. The city just doesn't offer enough to be worth the inconvenience and high COL over other cities if you can get equitable jobs. Unfortunately, because most firms are in nyc, I'd probably go there. But I'd rather be in DC or chicago because the money goes a good bit farther.

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Other25BeforeYou
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Re: Big Law

Postby Other25BeforeYou » Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:11 pm

rose711 wrote:2. If most of the biglaw jobs are in NYC - what are all the haters going to do when they live there? I love NYC so I am completely biased. But if you are not going to be happy living there, then you should target your school selection and job applications according - which I think would tend away from biglaw or, I guess, NYC biglaw, which is where most of the jobs are going to be found.

Your point seems to be that people who hate New York shouldn't aim for NYC biglaw. Which is pretty obvious. Everyone I know who doesn't like New York (including myself) didn't interview for NYC biglaw jobs. Luckily, few enough of us seem to hate New York that there seem to be enough biglaw jobs available in other primary and secondary markets.




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