Big Law

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ahduth
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Big Law

Postby ahduth » Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:15 pm

Har har, and yes I did try the search function. I'm bad at the internets though, and didn't find anything useful. Sue me.

What's big law?

I've always assumed it was just the AmLaw 100, but it seems like people often conflate big law with the NLJ250. There's also the V100, but I'm not sure why we care about associate prestige perception. AmLaw talks cash money and in a lot of capitalist countries money talks and bullshit walks, or so I've heard.

When we talk about big law placement and the NLJ250, I always start to feel a little funny because of:

http://www.ilrg.com/nlj250/attorneys/desc/4
http://www.ilrg.com/nlj250/attorneys/desc/5

Is there a consensus around this at all? Per the aliarrow chart portfolio, Wisconsin and SMU had better NLJ250 placement than Minnesota. How much of all these placements were "big law"?

Sandro
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Re: Big Law

Postby Sandro » Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:23 pm

??????

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Cavalier
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Re: Big Law

Postby Cavalier » Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:31 pm

I don't think there's a consensus about the meaning of "big law," but it doesn't really matter. Starting salaries are very divergent; you'll likely either earn a six figure salary ($160,000 in major cities, less in secondary locations--the "market" rate), or $40-60,000 upon graduation. When law students (and prospective law students) refer to "getting big law," they are usually just referring to getting a job at a firm that pays market.

Sandro
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Re: Big Law

Postby Sandro » Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:35 pm

and a lower salary in a place that has a lot lower relative COL is really a higher salary , atleast some people think of it that way.

HeavenWood
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Re: Big Law

Postby HeavenWood » Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:40 pm

Sandro wrote:and a lower salary in a place that has a lot lower relative COL is really a higher salary , atleast some people think of it that way.


I'd much rather live on 130k in Pittsburgh than 160k in Manhattan.

BeenDidThat
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Re: Big Law

Postby BeenDidThat » Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:51 pm

# of attys in firm.

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nealric
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Re: Big Law

Postby nealric » Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:53 pm

This is an ontological question the likes of which will never be answered by even the greatest philosophers.

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voltage88
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Re: Big Law

Postby voltage88 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:06 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
Sandro wrote:and a lower salary in a place that has a lot lower relative COL is really a higher salary , atleast some people think of it that way.


I'd much rather live on 130k in Pittsburgh than 160k in Manhattan.


I'd much rather live on 130K in Manhattan than 160k in Pittsburgh lol I guess it's a matter of preference. I'd be willing to sacrifice 30K to live in New York than to live in a small Midwest town on the decline...Sorry 'burghers! :lol:

Sandro
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Re: Big Law

Postby Sandro » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:09 pm

voltage88 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
Sandro wrote:and a lower salary in a place that has a lot lower relative COL is really a higher salary , atleast some people think of it that way.


I'd much rather live on 130k in Pittsburgh than 160k in Manhattan.


I'd much rather live on 130K in Manhattan than 160k in Pittsburgh lol I guess it's a matter of preference. I'd be willing to sacrifice 30K to live in New York than to live in a small Midwest town on the decline...Sorry 'burghers! :lol:


Obviously Cash doesnt Rule Everything Around You. Get the money, dolla dolla bills yall. And I dont know about you but I have a feeling I wouldn't feel to down "in a small midwest town on the decline" if I had a stack of $60k sitting next to me each year. 8)
Last edited by Sandro on Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Other25BeforeYou
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Re: Big Law

Postby Other25BeforeYou » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:11 pm

Sandro wrote:and a lower salary in a place that has a lot lower relative COL is really a higher salary , atleast some people think of it that way.

Yeah, if you punch most of those into a cost of living calculator and see what you would need to make in New York for the same quality of life, it's usually more than $160K. I like http://www.bestplaces.net/col/.

For instance, Number 247 - for the same quality of life as $105K gets you in Cleveland, you'd need to make $217K in New York.
Number 211 - $90K in Louisville gets you what $194K gets you in New York.

And so on.

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handlesthetruth
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Re: Big Law

Postby handlesthetruth » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:22 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
Sandro wrote:and a lower salary in a place that has a lot lower relative COL is really a higher salary , atleast some people think of it that way.


I'd much rather live on 130k in Pittsburgh than 160k in Manhattan.


+1000

160k in new York is like 75-80 in the Midwest...aka mid law.

120 in small cities is where the cash is at: 120k in St. Louis = 245k in nyc :shock: :shock:

HeavenWood
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Re: Big Law

Postby HeavenWood » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:55 pm

voltage88 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
Sandro wrote:and a lower salary in a place that has a lot lower relative COL is really a higher salary , atleast some people think of it that way.


I'd much rather live on 130k in Pittsburgh than 160k in Manhattan.


I'd much rather live on 130K in Manhattan than 160k in Pittsburgh lol I guess it's a matter of preference. I'd be willing to sacrifice 30K to live in New York than to live in a small Midwest town on the decline rise...Sorry 'burghers! :lol:


I can understand your disdain toward Pittsburgh (it can't even begin to compare to New York), but to be fair, the city really is on the rise. The white collar sector has rebounded in the past 20 years. Once the blue collar industries bottom out, Pittsburgh should start to see a rise in population once more.

160k is by no means bad in NYC, but a $2,500 a month broom closet in midtown Manhattan is not at all appealing to me. Different strokes and all that, I suppose.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Big Law

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:02 pm

I believe the NLJ250 is generally considered to be "big law."

However, I think that it is unfair to say that "big law" is more desirable than "market paying mid law."

Also, ~30% of the salaries on that bimodal distribution chart land between $130,000-$60,000. So to say that there are not a lot of jobs in that range isn't really accurate.

mamun_tech
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Re: Big Law

Postby mamun_tech » Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:34 pm

SPAM BE GONE. -MODS

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: Big Law

Postby JusticeHarlan » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:15 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Also, ~30% of the salaries on that bimodal distribution chart land between $130,000-$60,000. So to say that there are not a lot of jobs in that range isn't really accurate.

You have to factor in the response rate, though. The '09 chart had fewer than 20K graduates reporting, out of about 45K, so your 30% probably drops below 15%.

http://www.nalp.org/salarydistrib

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stratocophic
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Re: Big Law

Postby stratocophic » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:26 pm

handlesthetruth wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
Sandro wrote:and a lower salary in a place that has a lot lower relative COL is really a higher salary , atleast some people think of it that way.


I'd much rather live on 130k in Pittsburgh than 160k in Manhattan.


+1000

160k in new York is like 75-80 in the Midwest...aka mid law.

120 in small cities is where the cash is at: 120k in St. Louis = 245k in nyc :shock: :shock:
Heck, even 160 in Chicago = 245k in NYC. At K&E or any other place that pays market bonuses... I'm $ure you can $ee where I'm going with thi$

FiveSermon
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Re: Big Law

Postby FiveSermon » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:27 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
Sandro wrote:and a lower salary in a place that has a lot lower relative COL is really a higher salary , atleast some people think of it that way.


I'd much rather live on 130k in Pittsburgh than 160k in Manhattan.


I would rather live in Manhattan. I can't be sure but I don't think I would like Pittsburgh.

HeavenWood
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Re: Big Law

Postby HeavenWood » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:28 pm

stratocophic wrote:
handlesthetruth wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
Sandro wrote:and a lower salary in a place that has a lot lower relative COL is really a higher salary , atleast some people think of it that way.


I'd much rather live on 130k in Pittsburgh than 160k in Manhattan.


+1000

160k in new York is like 75-80 in the Midwest...aka mid law.

120 in small cities is where the cash is at: 120k in St. Louis = 245k in nyc :shock: :shock:
Heck, even 160 in Chicago = 245k in NYC. At K&E or any other place that pays market bonuses... I'm $ure you can $ee where I'm going with thi$


160k in Milwaukee (Foley & Lardner) = 309k in NYC. Quick, someone sell me on Wisconsin.

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bk1
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Re: Big Law

Postby bk1 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:28 pm

Cavalier wrote:When law students (and prospective law students) refer to "getting big law," they are usually just referring to getting a job at a firm that pays market.


This.

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stratocophic
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Re: Big Law

Postby stratocophic » Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:00 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
stratocophic wrote:
handlesthetruth wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:\

I'd much rather live on 130k in Pittsburgh than 160k in Manhattan.


+1000

160k in new York is like 75-80 in the Midwest...aka mid law.

120 in small cities is where the cash is at: 120k in St. Louis = 245k in nyc :shock: :shock:
Heck, even 160 in Chicago = 245k in NYC. At K&E or any other place that pays market bonuses... I'm $ure you can $ee where I'm going with thi$


160k in Milwaukee (Foley & Lardner) = 309k in NYC. Quick, someone sell me on Wisconsin.
Nalp puts Foley Milwaukee at 130k... secondary market pay =/= primary market pay, even if it's the main office (Bryan Cave in STL at 125k, e.g.)

HeavenWood
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Re: Big Law

Postby HeavenWood » Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:01 pm

stratocophic wrote:Nalp puts Foley Milwaukee at 130k... secondary market pay =/= primary market pay, even if it's the main office (Bryan Cave in STL at 125k, e.g.)


Oh well. At least I won't be pining for Milwaukee.

Sandro
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Re: Big Law

Postby Sandro » Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:11 pm

So really... who cares.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Big Law

Postby Patriot1208 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:12 pm

I'm just referring to the ability to dig blow out of a hookers asshole with my tongue.

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Ty Webb
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Re: Big Law

Postby Ty Webb » Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:22 pm

This thread has reminded me that most people don't see the correlation between higher cost of living and higher quality of life. There's a reason it costs a lot to live in NYC. It's because people want to live there. People want to live there because it's infinitely better than Cleveland fucking Ohio.

HeavenWood
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Re: Big Law

Postby HeavenWood » Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:26 pm

Ty Webb wrote:This thread has reminded me that most people don't see the correlation between higher cost of living and higher quality of life. There's a reason it costs a lot to live in NYC. It's because people want to live there. People want to live there because it's infinitely better than Cleveland fucking Ohio.


You're ignoring the fact that there are plenty of downsides to living in NYC (along with plenty of upsides to living in secondary markets).




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