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Lawlcat
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby Lawlcat » Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:57 pm

This doesn't work right; it's confirming that I should go to Mich. If it were to accurately simulate TLS, it would be all "OMG GO TO CHICAGO HYSCCN >> MITTTCHIGAN" and then I would tell it to fuck off.

aliarrow
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby aliarrow » Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:58 pm

I've sold out and added a google ad, so if you've already done this, do it again :wink:
(Hosting doesn't pay for itself)

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bk1
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby bk1 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:58 pm

No offense to OP but I think that there are too many variables and too many changing facts to make this a truly useful tool. While I applaud the effort you've put into it, I just feel that this isn't as simple a decision as something like LSP and because of that putting work into this is not that fruitful.

This is why we don't really need a "What are my chances?" forum (it is replaceable by a link to LSN and LSP) but a "What school should I go to?" forum is necessary because a tool can't really reflect all the nuances.

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AreJay711
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby AreJay711 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:59 pm

Very good calculator. Obviously it doesn't account for personal preference but it shows which ones match your goals the best. Good job.

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Lawlcat
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby Lawlcat » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:01 pm

bk1 wrote:No offense to OP but I think that there are too many variables and too many changing facts to make this a truly useful tool. While I applaud the effort you've put into it, I just feel that this isn't as simple a decision as something like LSP and because of that putting work into this is not that fruitful.

This is why we don't really need a "What are my chances?" forum (it is replaceable by a link to LSN and LSP) but a "What school should I go to?" forum is necessary because a tool can't really reflect all the nuances.


I think Aliarrow is awesome, but have to agree.

That said, I suspect that a lot of the data and analysis that makes this up would be useful as separate resources. E.g. a comparative placement map or a comprehensive CoA chart.

aliarrow
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby aliarrow » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:01 pm

bk1 wrote:No offense to OP but I think that there are too many variables and too many changing facts to make this a truly useful tool. While I applaud the effort you've put into it, I just feel that this isn't as simple a decision as something like LSP and because of that putting work into this is not that fruitful.

This is why we don't really need a "What are my chances?" forum (it is replaceable by a link to LSN and LSP) but a "What school should I go to?" forum is necessary because a tool can't really reflect all the nuances.


I agree. It isn't meant to be for a strict decision, more of just a fun tool.
I think it is useful for comparing schools with consideration to all factors (placement into each region, job type, and balancing it out), but you obviously shouldn't base a decision off what this says. It can just be used to "guide further research".

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bk1
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby bk1 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:02 pm

aliarrow wrote:I agree. It isn't meant to be for a strict decision, more of just a fun school.
I think it is useful for comparing schools with consideration to all factors (placement into each region, job type, and balancing it out), but you obviously shouldn't base a decision off what this says. It can just be used to "guide further research".


My problem is that the naive and underinformed will take it more seriously (especially when it has been stickied with other useful links).

aliarrow
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby aliarrow » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:02 pm

bk1 wrote:
aliarrow wrote:I agree. It isn't meant to be for a strict decision, more of just a fun school.
I think it is useful for comparing schools with consideration to all factors (placement into each region, job type, and balancing it out), but you obviously shouldn't base a decision off what this says. It can just be used to "guide further research".


My problem is that the naive and underinformed will take it more seriously (especially when it has been stickied with other useful links).


I'll add a disclaimer to the top of the page.

FiveSermon
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby FiveSermon » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:02 pm

bk1 wrote:No offense to OP but I think that there are too many variables and too many changing facts to make this a truly useful tool. While I applaud the effort you've put into it, I just feel that this isn't as simple a decision as something like LSP and because of that putting work into this is not that fruitful.

This is why we don't really need a "What are my chances?" forum (it is replaceable by a link to LSN and LSP) but a "What school should I go to?" forum is necessary because a tool can't really reflect all the nuances.


What are my chances forum is incredibly useful for someone who has no idea. It is more useful than LSP and LSN because people can tell others about school specific policies that can change an entire cycle for them. i.e UVA ED, NU ED, soft gpa floors etc which LSP doesn't account for and LSN isn't 100% clear on.

bmore
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby bmore » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:04 pm

Lawlcat wrote:This doesn't work right; it's confirming that I should go to Mich. If it were to accurately simulate TLS, it would be all "OMG GO TO CHICAGO HYSCCN >> MITTTCHIGAN" and then I would tell it to fuck off.



Haha. And retake. It is just a fun little tool. It did confirm my Penn decision.

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bk1
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby bk1 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:06 pm

FiveSermon wrote:What are my chances forum is incredibly useful for someone who has no idea. It is more useful than LSP and LSN because people can tell others about school specific policies that can change an entire cycle for them. i.e UVA ED, NU ED, soft gpa floors etc which LSP doesn't account for and LSN isn't 100% clear on.


I was being a tad facetious. LSP does account for GPA floors (iirc) and LSN does a decent illustration of that. While I don't think the subforum should be eliminated entirely, I feel that LSN/LSP make things clearer for those people where as this tool makes things more convoluted when a human could give a more straightforward answer that is closer to the truth and doesn't make use of weak variables.

FiveSermon
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby FiveSermon » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:08 pm

bk1 wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:What are my chances forum is incredibly useful for someone who has no idea. It is more useful than LSP and LSN because people can tell others about school specific policies that can change an entire cycle for them. i.e UVA ED, NU ED, soft gpa floors etc which LSP doesn't account for and LSN isn't 100% clear on.


I was being a tad facetious. LSP does account for GPA floors (iirc) and LSN does a decent illustration of that. While I don't think the subforum should be eliminated entirely, I feel that LSN/LSP make things clearer for those people where as this tool makes things more convoluted when a human could give a more straightforward answer that is closer to the truth and doesn't make use of weak variables.


The forums is definitely better for certain people. Splitters/URMs in particular. I can't believe how useless LSP is at predicting splitters and LSN just doesn't have enough data on URMs to be of much use.

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powerlawyer06
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby powerlawyer06 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:14 pm

I really like this. If you make the interface a little more userfriendly then I think this could be the next LSP. Great idea!

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Borhas
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby Borhas » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:27 pm

good way to gather data in one place, but too much of a clockwork orange

firemed
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby firemed » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:42 pm

I liked a lot.

Only one quibble: could you alphabetize the schools? It was kinda a pain to search around for the schools I wanted.

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Lovely Ludwig Van
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby Lovely Ludwig Van » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:49 pm

Oh lord this thing is beautiful.

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pinkzeppelin
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby pinkzeppelin » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:56 pm

It seems to me like there are a lot of problems.

If I am choosing between a full ride at UGA vs. $20/year at Columbia vs. $0/year at Harvard. The cost scores for these schools are 100, 14 and 8, respectively. If, instead, I remove UGA from the calculator, the cost score of Columbia is 100 while the cost score of Harvard is 60! This means that now columbia has a 40 points lead due to cost where it had only a 6 point lead with UGA in the mix. This can lead to scenarios where the calculator will tell me to pick Columbia, but if I'm also considering UGA, to pick Harvard, which doesn't make sense. Perhaps cost should be absolutely rated instead.

In addition, because the clerkship percentages are so much lower than BigLaw, it's difficult to make the clerkship placement matter at all. And in general, even if cost and employment are both rated at 10, cost ends up being weighted significantly more than employment because the employment number can never reach 100.

Also, it doesn't look like the geographic score is even being added to the overall score. So right now geography doesn't affect anything.

Bumi
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby Bumi » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:09 pm

This tool needs a checkbox for "give me sarcastic TLS responses" and then a random bank of remarks like "retake/reapply on sept 1" and hilarious jokes about each school (like "georgeTTTown" etc).

Just kidding. It ranked my schools exactly as I had them ranked, good work.

aliarrow
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby aliarrow » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:14 pm

pinkzeppelin wrote:It seems to me like there are a lot of problems.

If I am choosing between a full ride at UGA vs. $20/year at Columbia vs. $0/year at Harvard. The cost scores for these schools are 100, 14 and 8, respectively. If, instead, I remove UGA from the calculator, the cost score of Columbia is 100 while the cost score of Harvard is 60! This means that now columbia has a 40 points lead due to cost where it had only a 6 point lead with UGA in the mix. This can lead to scenarios where the calculator will tell me to pick Columbia, but if I'm also considering UGA, to pick Harvard, which doesn't make sense. Perhaps cost should be absolutely rated instead.

In addition, because the clerkship percentages are so much lower than BigLaw, it's difficult to make the clerkship placement matter at all. And in general, even if cost and employment are both rated at 10, cost ends up being weighted significantly more than employment because the employment number can never reach 100.

Also, it doesn't look like the geographic score is even being added to the overall score. So right now geography doesn't affect anything.


Like I said in OP, the cost scores are calculated based off the cheapest school.
The cheapest school automatically receives a score of 100 then the other schools receive a score based on their relative position to the cheapest school. I guess another simpler method would just be tiers (200k+ = 0, 180-200k = 10, 160-180k = 20, etc).

And yeah, the way weights work out is kind of weird. Geographic and employment stats are added (the scores given aren't weighted, which is why it may look like geography isn't included), but they don't hold enough weight compared to Prestige and Cost since they're always destined to be significantly lower. I'm trying to think of a good way to fix this, maybe some sort of multiplier.

BlueDiamond
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby BlueDiamond » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:44 pm

Leaving all things equal and just entering the schools it always tells you to go to the school you entered first.. not sure if there is an explanation for that (I'm not a numbers guy) but if you enter, for example, Syracuse and then Yale it tells you to attend Syracuse.. if you enter Yale then Syracuse it says to go to Yale

Edit: even with schools that rank lower on both ends still in the system.. if you enter berkeley first then yale leaving all else equal.. yale has the higher cost score and prestige score but it still says go to berk
Last edited by BlueDiamond on Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Grizz
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby Grizz » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:45 pm

A much better calculator exists here:

--LinkRemoved--

aliarrow
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby aliarrow » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:46 pm

BlueDiamond wrote:Leaving all things equal and just entering the schools it always tells you to go to the school you entered first.. not sure if there is an explanation for that (I'm not a numbers guy) but if you enter, for example, Syracuse and then Yale it tells you to attend Syracuse.. if you enter Yale then Syracuse it says to go to Yale


Thats just because all the scores are zero. I guess I can add an error message saying you have to add at least one factor

BlueDiamond
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby BlueDiamond » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:47 pm

aliarrow wrote:
BlueDiamond wrote:Leaving all things equal and just entering the schools it always tells you to go to the school you entered first.. not sure if there is an explanation for that (I'm not a numbers guy) but if you enter, for example, Syracuse and then Yale it tells you to attend Syracuse.. if you enter Yale then Syracuse it says to go to Yale


Thats just because all the scores are zero. I guess I can add an error message saying you have to add at least one factor


haha no you dont need to.. nobody but me would do that probably.. i was just trying to figure out how it worked when only using those two measures.. but now im thinking they are only useful when you have the other variables using this system

aliarrow
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby aliarrow » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:49 pm

pinkzeppelin wrote:It seems to me like there are a lot of problems.

If I am choosing between a full ride at UGA vs. $20/year at Columbia vs. $0/year at Harvard. The cost scores for these schools are 100, 14 and 8, respectively. If, instead, I remove UGA from the calculator, the cost score of Columbia is 100 while the cost score of Harvard is 60! This means that now columbia has a 40 points lead due to cost where it had only a 6 point lead with UGA in the mix. This can lead to scenarios where the calculator will tell me to pick Columbia, but if I'm also considering UGA, to pick Harvard, which doesn't make sense. Perhaps cost should be absolutely rated instead.

In addition, because the clerkship percentages are so much lower than BigLaw, it's difficult to make the clerkship placement matter at all. And in general, even if cost and employment are both rated at 10, cost ends up being weighted significantly more than employment because the employment number can never reach 100.

Also, it doesn't look like the geographic score is even being added to the overall score. So right now geography doesn't affect anything.


Actually what I think Ill do is standardize all scores like I did with cost. So the school with the best employmet prospects gets 100 and all other schools receive a relative score (and same with geography). Now that I think about it, this really should have been done in the first place.

BlueDiamond
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby BlueDiamond » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:49 pm

Also, I agree with an earlier poster about the NLJ 3 year average or even just the more recent one




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