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Cupidity
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby Cupidity » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:42 pm

It gave GWU an employment score of 1467 compared to 2.6 for BC, I'm thinking there is some sort of error? Also, UF doesn't have great biglaw placement, but they don't have 0.0%

aliarrow
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby aliarrow » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:54 pm

Cupidity wrote:It gave GWU an employment score of 1467 compared to 2.6 for BC, I'm thinking there is some sort of error? Also, UF doesn't have great biglaw placement, but they don't have 0.0%


The glitch should be fixed with index scores, I just made one more tweak which should fix what you just encountered with GWU.

There's no NLJ 250 placement data available for the class of 2009 for any school which places <13% in biglaw. I can use 2010 #s (which I think would cover more schools in the latest release from law.com) or an average, but I just think its even more awkward with data from different years coming up under employment.

buchy2009
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby buchy2009 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:41 am

I think there is an error in Tulane's employment data. It said they had 0% biglaw placement. This website says they have about 11%: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

buchy2009
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby buchy2009 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:43 am

But to echo everyone else, this is awesome. Thank you for your time spent on this!

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby FeelTheHeat » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:54 am

Ali, going to back to a previous sentiment, have you considered using the judge/attorney scale (maybe 3 year average) as a measure of prestige?

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huckster
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby huckster » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:59 am

It confirmed what I've been thinking - nice job

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Non-Chalant1
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby Non-Chalant1 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:42 am

Knock wrote:It's definitely a fun tool. I kind of want to see prestige removed though, since I kind of envision this tool as a helpful informational tool which help people see past prestige and pick the best option. How are you even measuring prestige? If you're measuring lay prestige, well then that really shouldn't be a significant factor in your decision. If your measuring legal prestige, how are you measuring it? Reputation scores? I feel that similarly ranked schools are similarly prestigious. Prestige is pretty regional as well (obviously with some exceptions). I'm just not a huge fan of including prestige in this equation.

Edited: I think a lot of times people get blinded by prestige and make what might not be the best decision for them.

He said what the prestige is based on in the first post. Prestige is definitely relevant because some schools dominate certain areas and filter their classes into certain internships, externships, PI opportunities, prestigious firms, alumni networks, etc.

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Knock
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby Knock » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:46 am

Non-Chalant1 wrote:
Knock wrote:It's definitely a fun tool. I kind of want to see prestige removed though, since I kind of envision this tool as a helpful informational tool which help people see past prestige and pick the best option. How are you even measuring prestige? If you're measuring lay prestige, well then that really shouldn't be a significant factor in your decision. If your measuring legal prestige, how are you measuring it? Reputation scores? I feel that similarly ranked schools are similarly prestigious. Prestige is pretty regional as well (obviously with some exceptions). I'm just not a huge fan of including prestige in this equation.

Edited: I think a lot of times people get blinded by prestige and make what might not be the best decision for them.

He said what the prestige is based on in the first post. Prestige is definitely relevant because some schools dominate certain areas and filter their classes into certain internships, externships, PI opportunities, prestigious firms, alumni networks, etc.


Well then it is going to be double-counting, since to me those things all seem to fall under the umbrella of "employment," which is already a category.

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Non-Chalant1
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby Non-Chalant1 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:50 am

Knock wrote:
Non-Chalant1 wrote:
Knock wrote:It's definitely a fun tool. I kind of want to see prestige removed though, since I kind of envision this tool as a helpful informational tool which help people see past prestige and pick the best option. How are you even measuring prestige? If you're measuring lay prestige, well then that really shouldn't be a significant factor in your decision. If your measuring legal prestige, how are you measuring it? Reputation scores? I feel that similarly ranked schools are similarly prestigious. Prestige is pretty regional as well (obviously with some exceptions). I'm just not a huge fan of including prestige in this equation.

Edited: I think a lot of times people get blinded by prestige and make what might not be the best decision for them.

He said what the prestige is based on in the first post. Prestige is definitely relevant because some schools dominate certain areas and filter their classes into certain internships, externships, PI opportunities, prestigious firms, alumni networks, etc.


Well then it is going to be double-counting, since to me those things all seem to fall under the umbrella of "employment," which is already a category.

When I say employment, I was thinking the percentage of graduates that are employed at a certain point after graduation. I didn't really read into how he set it up. However, that cannot describe the quality of the job and the desirability of the job. Things that are more often than not occupied by individuals from prestigious institutions. Obviously those people were already bright, but the established connections, etc. that affect employment aren't clearly described in that all-encompassing umbrella.

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Hannibal
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby Hannibal » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:00 am

Non-Chalant1 wrote:
Knock wrote:
Non-Chalant1 wrote:
Knock wrote:It's definitely a fun tool. I kind of want to see prestige removed though, since I kind of envision this tool as a helpful informational tool which help people see past prestige and pick the best option. How are you even measuring prestige? If you're measuring lay prestige, well then that really shouldn't be a significant factor in your decision. If your measuring legal prestige, how are you measuring it? Reputation scores? I feel that similarly ranked schools are similarly prestigious. Prestige is pretty regional as well (obviously with some exceptions). I'm just not a huge fan of including prestige in this equation.

Edited: I think a lot of times people get blinded by prestige and make what might not be the best decision for them.

He said what the prestige is based on in the first post. Prestige is definitely relevant because some schools dominate certain areas and filter their classes into certain internships, externships, PI opportunities, prestigious firms, alumni networks, etc.


Well then it is going to be double-counting, since to me those things all seem to fall under the umbrella of "employment," which is already a category.

When I say employment, I was thinking the percentage of graduates that are employed at a certain point after graduation. I didn't really read into how he set it up. However, that cannot describe the quality of the job and the desirability of the job. Things that are more often than not occupied by individuals from prestigious institutions. Obviously those people were already bright, but the established connections, etc. that affect employment aren't clearly described in that all-encompassing umbrella.


[citation needed]

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Non-Chalant1
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby Non-Chalant1 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:04 am

Hannibal wrote:
Non-Chalant1 wrote:When I say employment, I was thinking the percentage of graduates that are employed at a certain point after graduation. I didn't really read into how he set it up. However, that cannot describe the quality of the job and the desirability of the job. Things that are more often than not occupied by individuals from prestigious institutions. Obviously those people were already bright, but the established connections, etc. that affect employment aren't clearly described in that all-encompassing umbrella.


[citation needed]

Lol, well I'm biased because I want to work for the DOJ someday and I swore everyone of them I met was from the T14 if they were relatively young. Plus I always hear about "elite" corporate law firms being composed of T6 people mostly or substantially. But then again everyone's definition of what a prestigious job is...is different. So I'll relinquish that point.

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Hannibal
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby Hannibal » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:06 am

Non-Chalant1 wrote:
Hannibal wrote:
Non-Chalant1 wrote:When I say employment, I was thinking the percentage of graduates that are employed at a certain point after graduation. I didn't really read into how he set it up. However, that cannot describe the quality of the job and the desirability of the job. Things that are more often than not occupied by individuals from prestigious institutions. Obviously those people were already bright, but the established connections, etc. that affect employment aren't clearly described in that all-encompassing umbrella.


[citation needed]

Lol, well I'm biased because I want to work for the DOJ someday and I swore everyone of them I met was from the T14 if they were relatively young. Plus I always hear about "elite" corporate law firms being composed of T6 people mostly or substantially. But then again everyone's definition of what a prestigious job is...is different. So I'll relinquish that point.


T14 has best employment
T6 has even better employment

Not sure I follow

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Non-Chalant1
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby Non-Chalant1 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:44 am

Hannibal wrote:
Non-Chalant1 wrote:
Hannibal wrote:
Non-Chalant1 wrote:When I say employment, I was thinking the percentage of graduates that are employed at a certain point after graduation. I didn't really read into how he set it up. However, that cannot describe the quality of the job and the desirability of the job. Things that are more often than not occupied by individuals from prestigious institutions. Obviously those people were already bright, but the established connections, etc. that affect employment aren't clearly described in that all-encompassing umbrella.


[citation needed]

Lol, well I'm biased because I want to work for the DOJ someday and I swore everyone of them I met was from the T14 if they were relatively young. Plus I always hear about "elite" corporate law firms being composed of T6 people mostly or substantially. But then again everyone's definition of what a prestigious job is...is different. So I'll relinquish that point.


T14 has best employment
T6 has even better employment

Not sure I follow

I have no idea what you're talking about right now. I'm very confused. I'm not even sure what your citation needed thing meant now.

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Hannibal
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby Hannibal » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:46 am

I thought you were saying prestigious schools got prestigious jobs of equal quality to other non-prestigious jobs. I'm not sure those jobs exist, or that that happens if it does.

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Non-Chalant1
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby Non-Chalant1 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:52 am

Hannibal wrote:I thought you were saying prestigious schools got prestigious jobs of equal quality to other non-prestigious jobs. I'm not sure those jobs exist, or that that happens if it does.

No, I was saying prestigious schools are more likely to lead to prestigious jobs. So saying 99% of your class is employed is different than where they're employed at. His calculation takes into account clerkships and PI, etc., which is great. But being employed at say a V15 firm (I don't like these breakdowns to be honest) vs. V50. Certain schools are more likely to get you into that V15 job. Which is why I felt listed prestige was important. It is relevant. Particularly for those with lofty goals.

What do mean that prestigious job of equal quality to non-prestigious jobs? Non- prestigious = quality?

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Rock Chalk
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby Rock Chalk » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:30 am

Non-Chalant1 wrote:
Hannibal wrote:I thought you were saying prestigious schools got prestigious jobs of equal quality to other non-prestigious jobs. I'm not sure those jobs exist, or that that happens if it does.

No, I was saying prestigious schools are more likely to lead to prestigious jobs. So saying 99% of your class is employed is different than where they're employed at. His calculation takes into account clerkships and PI, etc., which is great. But being employed at say a V15 firm (I don't like these breakdowns to be honest) vs. V50. Certain schools are more likely to get you into that V15 job. Which is why I felt listed prestige was important. It is relevant. Particularly for those with lofty goals.

I agree that prestige should be an option to be taken into account. While many of us might not care, there are those for whom prestige matters because they really want v5/10/20 etc. that only interview at certain schools (according to this guy and TLS wisdom). The rest of us can just choose "don't care" or rank it accordingly. I'm not a big fan of censorship-for-the-stupid.

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bergg007
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby bergg007 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:08 am

This was great. It's still rough but i really got a kick out of it. Both me and the picker chose 'bama for my goals so it must be good.

aliarrow
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby aliarrow » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:28 am

My thoughts on prestige -

Say someone wants to work in government in Arkansas and they got into Yale and University of Arkansas.
For their career goals, location goals, costs University of Arkansas wins every time, but consciousness of Prestige does play some role. If even a little is given to prestige then Yale wins.

aliarrow
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby aliarrow » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:51 am

FeelTheHeat wrote:Ali, going to back to a previous sentiment, have you considered using the judge/attorney scale (maybe 3 year average) as a measure of prestige?


Its possible, I dont know about 3 year averages though, I'm not sure if 3 years worth of data is out there anywhere (US News doesnt keep old data public).

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Law Sauce
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby Law Sauce » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:55 am

This is so sweet!!

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby FeelTheHeat » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:56 am

aliarrow wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote:Ali, going to back to a previous sentiment, have you considered using the judge/attorney scale (maybe 3 year average) as a measure of prestige?


Its possible, I dont know about 3 year averages though, I'm not sure if 3 years worth of data is out there anywhere (US News doesnt keep old data public).


Gotcha, that would certainly be prohibitive lol

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northwood
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby northwood » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:57 am

Where is the re take Re apply button?

Or if you want to be nice have a school called LSAT PREP U.

aliarrow
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby aliarrow » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:16 pm

buchy2009 wrote:I think there is an error in Tulane's employment data. It said they had 0% biglaw placement. This website says they have about 11%: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1


Thats from the class of 2010 (my data is all c/o 2009)

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DeeCee
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby DeeCee » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:08 pm

hey aliarrow, just found your new thread. I didn't know about this one until a minute ago, so I posted something about lawschoolpicker in your old thread.

aliarrow
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Re: Choosing a law school made easy

Postby aliarrow » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:16 pm

I'll just re-address it here in case the issue comes up again -

Tuition figures are for the 2010-2011 school year, this is because this is the newest data available on US News. When I have more time I'll go through all the schools websites and look for 2011-2012 figures. For now it should be fine assuming not many schools have a disproportionate rate hike, since this is used for comparison among schools.




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