To Go or Not To Go?... Please Vote! Forum

[JustE]

Hi guys,

I've had an interesting cycle and everyone I speak with who went to a T14 program is telling me to re-apply. I waited untill 2/16/2011 to apply which is flat out after most deadlines.

There were several reasons for applying so late, including a December LSAT retake and working 60-70 hour weeks at the office. So far, I've received a Preferred Waitlist offer from Georgetown, waitlists for Duke, Michigan, & Northwestern, and the only acceptance I'm seriously considering is a decent scholarship at Notre Dame.

My goal is to go to the best school possible, come out with the smallest amount of debt and work in BigLaw (wishful thinking?).

I am an AA male with strong softs, 2 years work experience at a top financial firm, 3.2 GPA and 162 LSAT score (153 first time). I studied for 30 days after getting my Oct. score back, took about 6 practice tests and am fairly certain I can pop the score up dramatically (again) in October.

Im burnt out at work and really want to start law school this Fall, but realize I would be making a largely emotional decision. Notre Dame's first $600 deposit is this Wednesday. What should I do?

Definitely don't go. A few more points will get you into a T14

Don't know if I can do the time...

[ShuckingNotJiving]

why would you base your future on what you've admitted is a "largely emotional decision" (ie, going to Notre Dame in the fall). also, did you apply to only the schools you mentioned? if so, why????


i'd bet applying early next year (without retake) gets you in Cornell, if that's something you're into.

[JustE]

why would you base your future on what you've admitted is a "largely emotional decision" (ie, going to Notre Dame in the fall). also, did you apply to only the schools you mentioned? if so, why????


i'd bet applying early next year (without retake) gets you in Cornell, if that's something you're into.

Applied to others, but these were the only options worth mentioning... By the time I fired off the apps, it was way too late for Cornell and others. Didn't waste the cash and mostly applied where I had waivers, with a few exceptions.

I completely understand your point, but I'm ready to go. I've been out of school since 2008 and although most will say "what's another year?", I reaaaallllyyyy don't want to drag this thing out. I initially intended to only take one year off... That turned to three... now four... I don't want to be the guy that never got around to going....

Pleas talk me out of this!!!!

[bhan87]

why would you base your future on what you've admitted is a "largely emotional decision" (ie, going to Notre Dame in the fall). also, did you apply to only the schools you mentioned? if so, why????


i'd bet applying early next year (without retake) gets you in Cornell, if that's something you're into.

Applied to others, but these were the only options worth mentioning... By the time I fired off the apps, it was way too late for Cornell and others. Didn't waste the cash and mostly applied where I had waivers, with a few exceptions.

I completely understand your point, but I'm ready to go. I've been out of school since 2008 and although most will say "what's another year?", I reaaaallllyyyy don't want to drag this thing out. I initially intended to only take one year off... That turned to three... now four... I don't want to be the guy that never got around to going....

Pleas talk me out of this!!!!

The flip side to this story is you've ALREADY waited 3 years, what's 1 more? Also, look at the hiring data between Notre Dame and Cornell. It's not even close. What would you do if I told you that I'd give you half a million dollars to stay out of school for a year and do whatever the hell you want (travel, sit on your ass, etc)? That's the type of decision you're making. Whatever legal job you get, the work will be hard and the hours rough, but the job you get out of Cornell will more likely be financially secure than the one you get out of Notre Dame.

[scammedhard]

I completely understand your point, but I'm ready to go. I've been out of school since 2008 and although most will say "what's another year?", I reaaaallllyyyy don't want to drag this thing out. I initially intended to only take one year off... That turned to three... now four... I don't want to be the guy that never got around to going....

Then go to law school now and stop the drama. Good luck!

[JustE]

I completely understand your point, but I'm ready to go. I've been out of school since 2008 and although most will say "what's another year?", I reaaaallllyyyy don't want to drag this thing out. I initially intended to only take one year off... That turned to three... now four... I don't want to be the guy that never got around to going....

Then go to law school now and stop the drama. Good luck!

Thanks!

[cornhusker]

You might want to seriously consider going to ND if they can improve your $$$ amount, to attend this year.
If I "read between your lines," you are burned out in your job, and miss the writing/arguing challenges any law school offers.
Intellectual stimulation is a completely different type of stress than being unhappy in a work environment for an entire year.
The Midwest is a great place, and Chicago has some serious firms, even as satellite offices.
Lastly, If you find you have regretted attending ND this fall, look to transfer right away. NDLS probably has a pretty active alum network; sometimes its just a matter of who can help you get a foot in the door!
Best of luck with your decision.

[Gecko of Doom]

Pleas talk me out of this!!!!

Take it from me, someone who has borderline-T14 numbers. Before I got off the waitlist at my T14, I was planning to go to a lower ranked school with a scholarship, even though waiting a year, applying early, and possibly retaking would have given me better chances. In retrospect, I feel like that would have been a huge mistake, and it was only a lucky waitlist admit that saved me.

In lifetime earning potential, a T14 is worth much more than that 54k you have at Notre Dame. And that scholarship might be a moot point anyway, since a jump of a few LSAT points could net you scholarship money at much better schools.

Ultimately, if you're just too burnt out to wait another year, that's your decision, and you could do much, much worse than ND. But I would recommend against selling yourself short.

[akaBlondie]

I voted wait, retake, and re-apply. But if you're totally burned out on LSAT studying, at least just try applying again at the beginning of the cycle.

As for being burnt out at work, take the year off. Study, then go traveling somewhere once the apps are out. You don't need a ton of money to do it.

Or take that time to volunteer/work on a campaign or volunteer somewhere or whatever!

[esq]

Nothing wrong with waiting another year, getting an LSAT that you are satisfied with, and making money to have during law school. One of the biggest pluses I see is that you will be able to graduate another year later, and with the economy the way it is, being able to ride it out for another year while in law school sounds pretty damn good to me. At this point the more space you can put between your graduation and the recession the better off you are IMO.

[shoeshine]

1. wait
2. retake
3. get into HYS
4. profit

[MrAnon]

If you can't make the decision to go to law school on your own, you should not go at this time.

[JustE]

1. wait
2. retake
3. get into HYS
4. profit

Well, when you put it that way...

Seriously, though, I decided to retake in October. I'm still on the Michigan, Duke, NU, and Georgetown waitlist, but doubt I'm lucky enough to get admitted.

I'm searching TLS now for ways to improve and hope the next 90 days will be enough. I plan to apply day one everywhere in the T-14, but to ask the T6 to hold the review until my Oct LSAT score comes in. I figure if a Feb 16 app gets waitlisted at the schools I mentioned, I should be safe from an auto reject if I apply early (I hope).

Thank you for the advice. You might have saved me from myself.

E

[JustE]

1. wait
2. retake
3. get into HYS
4. profit

Well, when you put it that way...

Seriously, though, I decided to retake in October. I'm still on the Michigan, Duke, NU, and Georgetown waitlist, but doubt I'm lucky enough to get admitted.

I'm searching TLS now for ways to improve and hope the next 90 days will be enough. I plan to apply day one everywhere in the T-14, but to ask the T6 to hold the review until my Oct LSAT score comes in. I figure if a Feb 16 app gets waitlisted at the schools I mentioned, I should be safe from an auto reject if I apply early (I hope).

Thank you for the advice. You might have saved me from myself.

E

166 in October. First round of apps go out in the next few days. Work improved and I'm happy I took your advice. Thanks again, guys.

[marmot8]

1. wait
2. retake
3. get into HYS
4. profit

Well, when you put it that way...

Seriously, though, I decided to retake in October. I'm still on the Michigan, Duke, NU, and Georgetown waitlist, but doubt I'm lucky enough to get admitted.

I'm searching TLS now for ways to improve and hope the next 90 days will be enough. I plan to apply day one everywhere in the T-14, but to ask the T6 to hold the review until my Oct LSAT score comes in. I figure if a Feb 16 app gets waitlisted at the schools I mentioned, I should be safe from an auto reject if I apply early (I hope).

Thank you for the advice. You might have saved me from myself.

E

166 in October. First round of apps go out in the next few days. Work improved and I'm happy I took your advice. Thanks again, guys.

congrats and good luck!

[LeBronBBall]

Starting to sound like the decision is clear... Thinking I'll try to defer or withdraw the ND offer... It will be a really rough decision if Duke, Michigan or Georgetown come calling this summer. There's no guarantee I'll be rolling in the dough after applying next year and anything less than a $100k scholarship offer to a lower T14 (to me) is a waste of a year.

You have 162 LSAT with 3.2 GPA and expect to get 100k+ merit money from lower T14? I had 172 LSAT with 3.2 GPA and still didn't get any scholarship money from any T14.

[JustE]

Starting to sound like the decision is clear... Thinking I'll try to defer or withdraw the ND offer... It will be a really rough decision if Duke, Michigan or Georgetown come calling this summer. There's no guarantee I'll be rolling in the dough after applying next year and anything less than a $100k scholarship offer to a lower T14 (to me) is a waste of a year.

You have 162 LSAT with 3.2 GPA and expect to get 100k+ merit money from lower T14? I had 172 LSAT with 3.2 GPA and still didn't get any scholarship money from any T14.

Thanks for posting!

Two things: 1) I'm a URM, 2) You missed the part where I said I was re-taking the LSAT.

I've seen a few LSN profiles of URMs (especially AA males) with 3.0-3.4 and 162-166s. Several received $100k, or close to it, to a few T-14 schools. Here's one from the previous page: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/miracle2011 . Additionally, I didn't say I expected $100k, I said anything less than that wouldn't be worth another year out of school.

I also was pretty active in college and have 3 years of work experience at a pretty solid financial services firm. Not saying $100k is guaranteed anywhere, but I'm hopeful.

E

[JustE]

My LSN profile is below if anyone's interested. Thanks again!

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/MaroonURM

[FlanAl]

Some thoughts, in no particular order:

1) If you're going to law school to avoid burnout, I'm afraid you're misguided.
2) Your w/e is killer w/r/t OCI for corporate biglaw firms. One more year will only make your résumé better.
2a) Why are you leaving your job in the financial sector for law school? Many would kill to be in your position right now.
3) Your URM status is a huge thing you've got going for you. Depending on what you're PTing, I'd say at least sit out this cycle and reapply the first day the apps become available. If you can up your score even 3 or 4 points, you're looking at mid-to-upper T14. At the very least, I think that would snag Northwestern.
4) I agree with the poster above who discourages wasting your potential on ND, especially at cost. I would only do so if ND were my dream school, and even then, I'd try to negotiate that scholarship.
5) Does the scholarship to ND have stipulations? If so, can you get the removed?

1) I'm looking forward to the hard work of law school. It's getting me closer to my end goal and I have a degree in philosophy so I miss writing, reading and arguing.

as a fellow philosophy major i definitely suggest you take a year off and read through a civil procedure case book to get an idea of what your day will look like everyday. I definitely thought the same way as you going in along the lines of I'm a philosophy major this will be great. Its not horrible but it definitely isn't as similar as you'd expect.

[JustE]

Some thoughts, in no particular order:

1) If you're going to law school to avoid burnout, I'm afraid you're misguided.
2) Your w/e is killer w/r/t OCI for corporate biglaw firms. One more year will only make your résumé better.
2a) Why are you leaving your job in the financial sector for law school? Many would kill to be in your position right now.
3) Your URM status is a huge thing you've got going for you. Depending on what you're PTing, I'd say at least sit out this cycle and reapply the first day the apps become available. If you can up your score even 3 or 4 points, you're looking at mid-to-upper T14. At the very least, I think that would snag Northwestern.
4) I agree with the poster above who discourages wasting your potential on ND, especially at cost. I would only do so if ND were my dream school, and even then, I'd try to negotiate that scholarship.
5) Does the scholarship to ND have stipulations? If so, can you get the removed?

1) I'm looking forward to the hard work of law school. It's getting me closer to my end goal and I have a degree in philosophy so I miss writing, reading and arguing.

as a fellow philosophy major i definitely suggest you take a year off and read through a civil procedure case book to get an idea of what your day will look like everyday. I definitely thought the same way as you going in along the lines of I'm a philosophy major this will be great. Its not horrible but it definitely isn't as similar as you'd expect.

Understood. I'm actually in the middle of my fourth year off. I haven't read an entire case book, but I have paged through the Crim Law E&E and a few other books. I'll pick up the Civ Pro case book when I finish the scholarship apps.

I'm still trying to decide if I should relax for the next year (which means watch ESPN after work everyday) or put in time doing 0L prep. Guess it depends on how I feel...

[FlanAl]

no need to read an entire case book haha but a crim EE will probably make law school seem fun. Basically after my getting my philosophy degree there have been times where I have re-read some of the stuff for fun and can imagine myself trying to tackle more of it for fun when I get older. For some reason I don't see myself re-reading my contracts casebook for fun.

Most people say don't do any 0L prep. I'm right in the middle of finals and really wish I had. It's probably just because I'm dumb but I know that if I had read some idea of WTF was going to be going down I'd have felt better all semester.

If you are taking a whole year I'd recommend reading chemerinsky's con law book. Take notes on it etc. realize that it will be your con law course at almost any school you go to.

[JustE]

Thanks for the tip! I'll borrow it from a friend!

E

[northwood]

DO NOT READ A CASEBOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! my k professor does not use the UCC, and i have other professors who told us that if we were to write something on the test that he did not speak to in class, or was worded differently ( and not because of test day jitters) that he would mark it as wrong. i know its not the majority, but there are things in the Eand Es that were different than what we said in some of my classes, and when i asked the prof about it, he siad, yea i know whats in them, but i dont agree with their interpretation.

you dont want to learn somethign, and then have to un learn and re learn it again.

[JustE]

DO NOT READ A CASEBOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! my k professor does not use the UCC, and i have other professors who told us that if we were to write something on the test that he did not speak to in class, or was worded differently ( and not because of test day jitters) that he would mark it as wrong. i know its not the majority, but there are things in the Eand Es that were different than what we said in some of my classes, and when i asked the prof about it, he siad, yea i know whats in them, but i dont agree with their interpretation.

you dont want to learn somethign, and then have to un learn and re learn it again.

Hmmm.... Yeah, I've heard this before... Would it be best to figure out where I'm going first? I'm sure I could get school specific advice on what to read once I decide...

Thoughts?

[northwood]

you willl read a lot during 1L. if you were going to do anything, i would suggest reading some books on to how to take law school exams, and start doing job research in the area you want. For exams, you ahve to tailor the subject to the professor and somtimes they dont teach everything that is in the supplements, or they teach them differently. Remember who your audience is, and professors love to hear themselves in your exams. MY K prof told us that supplements are good, but his office hours are better, and that if a lot of people have issues with a particular area, going ot his office will help him identify that as a weak area, so he can re visit the main idea in a later class ( or the next class) He also siad that its pretty easy to determine who memorized a supplement, as the terminology and defintions are different than his, and that sometimes he creates exam questions that resemble hypos in supplements but have one or 2 key phrases that are altered subtly, but significantly that if you just go oh hey i rmemeber this one,a nd vord vomit what you wrote, you will be totally in the wrong direction.

first determine where you are going, then enjoy pre top-law-schools.com. after the first month or so, you will understand. ( nad for the life of me, i hated being told that, as i thought it was too cliche, but its really right)