Northwestern V NYU v Columbia

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Pick a school

Columbia 25K/Year
56
67%
NYU 25K/Year
7
8%
Northwestern 50K/Year
20
24%
 
Total votes: 83

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BrightLine
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Northwestern V NYU v Columbia

Postby BrightLine » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:59 am

There have been many similar threads I know, but I would appreciate responses anyway.

    Interested in Big Law

    From New York and strongly prefer to work there but I am not attached

    No significant connections

    I am "debt averse" in the sense that I prefer not have debt, but really, who is pro debt

    Minimial undergrad debt



Northwestern has offered a 1 year defferred full ride, NYU and CLS have each offered 25K per year (not defferred).

bdubs
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Re: Northwestern V NYU v Columbia

Postby bdubs » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:03 pm

Columbia is really your best option, unless you are very debt averse.

It will give you the best shot at the top NYC biglaw firms and keep you in the city for three years. It will also have less expensive housing options than NYU and has more legal and lay prestige.
Last edited by bdubs on Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

c_dubya_s
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Re: Northwestern V NYU v Columbia

Postby c_dubya_s » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:04 pm

What are your feelings about deferring? The full ride is tempting, but I would still probably go to Columbia for NYC/BigLaw connections.

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BrightLine
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Re: Northwestern V NYU v Columbia

Postby BrightLine » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:07 pm

c_dubya_s wrote:What are your feelings about deferring? The full ride is tempting, but I would still probably go to Columbia for NYC/BigLaw connections.



Prefer not to do it. But If I do, I have an option that would cover the Northwestern living expenses. So it really would be ZERO debt

bdubs
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Re: Northwestern V NYU v Columbia

Postby bdubs » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:20 pm

BrightLine wrote:
c_dubya_s wrote:What are your feelings about deferring? The full ride is tempting, but I would still probably go to Columbia for NYC/BigLaw connections.



Prefer not to do it. But If I do, I have an option that would cover the Northwestern living expenses. So it really would be ZERO debt


The question is really what is the opportunity cost of forgoing a $160k salary in 3 years. Depends on how much you would make and spend in the next year, and also a slightly smaller probability that you get that salary at NU.

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BrightLine
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Re: Northwestern V NYU v Columbia

Postby BrightLine » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:21 pm

Thank you for the votes, I had all but decided on CLS, this solidified it for me.

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bk1
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Re: Northwestern V NYU v Columbia

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:23 pm

NU and it isn't even close.

Being NU class of 2015 with 0 debt is far better than being CLS class of 2014 with 125-150k debt.

09042014
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Re: Northwestern V NYU v Columbia

Postby 09042014 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:26 pm

bk1 wrote:NU and it isn't even close.

Being NU class of 2015 with 0 debt is far better than being CLS class of 2014 with 125-150k debt.


+1.

CLS isn't worth 75K more.

And to the person who said 160K/year in three years, that's not quite how it works. Most people only get a couple years in big law before you are booted.

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thecilent
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Re: Northwestern V NYU v Columbia

Postby thecilent » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:30 pm

bk1 wrote:NU and it isn't even close.

Being NU class of 2015 with 0 debt is far better than being CLS class of 2014 with 125-150k debt.


I'd prob take cls/nyu. Then again, I know 100% I want to be in the city. But don't say it's not even close.

sarahlawg
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Re: Northwestern V NYU v Columbia

Postby sarahlawg » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:31 pm

this poll is interesting. I'm debating about 20k debt at NU (don't have to defer) vs about 80k debt at Chicago. I wonder if it's leaning so heavily because when you look at 25k vs 50k it doesn't seem like much... The only reason I would choose Columbia over NU in your shoes is because of the deferring, which I wouldn't want to do.

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bk1
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Re: Northwestern V NYU v Columbia

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:32 pm

thecilent wrote:I'd prob take cls/nyu. Then again, I know 100% I want to be in the city. But don't say it's not even close.


You act like NU has a serious disadvantage placing in NYC and I really don't think that's the case.

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thecilent
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Re: Northwestern V NYU v Columbia

Postby thecilent » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:33 pm

bk1 wrote:
thecilent wrote:I'd prob take cls/nyu. Then again, I know 100% I want to be in the city. But don't say it's not even close.


You act like NU has a serious disadvantage placing in NYC and I really don't think that's the case.

I know it's much, much easier to get nyc coming from cls/nyu. Also I wouldn't want to defer, so that plays a part, too

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ArchRoark
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Re: Northwestern V NYU v Columbia

Postby ArchRoark » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:34 pm

Desert Fox wrote:And to the person who said 160K/year in three years, that's not quite how it works. Most people only get a couple years in big law before you are booted.


Sorry to derail the thread, but how do people manage their sticker level debt after they leave biglaw? Most LRAPs I have seen only cover positions that are started immediately after graduating or after a 1-year clerkship. I know you are able to lateral to in-house/prestigious gov/etc after biglaw WE, but I am curious to what the average level of compensation these positions provide.

I would do NU full-ride, but I am heavily debt averse. You really can't go wrong with any of your options. Given your situation I could see a good argument for any of the options.
Last edited by ArchRoark on Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bk1
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Re: Northwestern V NYU v Columbia

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:34 pm

thecilent wrote:I know it's much, much easier to get nyc coming from cls/nyu. Also I wouldn't want to defer, so that plays a part, too


I mean those are valid points, but we're talking about 125,000 dollars here.

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thecilent
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Re: Northwestern V NYU v Columbia

Postby thecilent » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:38 pm

bk1 wrote:
thecilent wrote:I know it's much, much easier to get nyc coming from cls/nyu. Also I wouldn't want to defer, so that plays a part, too


I mean those are valid points, but we're talking about 125,000 dollars here.

Yeah I'll agree that if OP doesn't mind moving to Chicago and having to understand that he might have to bid some spots on chicago market, then NU would be smart.

If not, cls/nyu

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bk1
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Re: Northwestern V NYU v Columbia

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:40 pm

thecilent wrote:Yeah I'll agree that if OP doesn't mind moving to Chicago and having to understand that he might have to bid some spots on chicago market, then NU would be smart.

If not, cls/nyu


Why wouldn't OP be able to put all his bids on NYC?

barry
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Re: Northwestern V NYU v Columbia

Postby barry » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:41 pm

NYC is the easiest market to land

GO to NU full ride it's not even close.....Seriously

edit: you should add the NU deferred full ride no COL in the poll b/c i think that is what is skewing the results

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thecilent
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Re: Northwestern V NYU v Columbia

Postby thecilent » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:43 pm

bk1 wrote:
thecilent wrote:Yeah I'll agree that if OP doesn't mind moving to Chicago and having to understand that he might have to bid some spots on chicago market, then NU would be smart.

If not, cls/nyu


Why wouldn't OP be able to put all his bids on NYC?

Well if you are in chicago for three years, you are going to want to put some bids there I would imagine. If for nothing else than it is much easier to schedule and attend callbacks if the market is close to you. Flying out to NYC for all those callback interviews will take a toll. I would think you would want a fallback closer to your school.. This is also an advantage for the schools in nyc.. a lot easier to schedule and go to interviews and stuff when it's only a subway ride away..

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bk1
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Re: Northwestern V NYU v Columbia

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:46 pm

barry wrote:edit: you should add the NU deferred full ride no COL in the poll b/c i think that is what is skewing the results


OP said that CoL would be covered.

BrightLine wrote: I have an option that would cover the Northwestern living expenses. So it really would be ZERO debt

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jtemp320
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Re: Northwestern V NYU v Columbia

Postby jtemp320 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:46 pm

I had the same choice minus the deferred at NU part (and I got less from NYU so it wasnt really in the picture). I picked CLS but I think it just depends on what you want- arguably taking the $ at Northwestern is a safer move (maybe even a more rational move). Still its personal choice - I don't think you can say CLS w/ half tuition is a bad option (unless the other options were something like HYS, Rubenstein etc.).

One point everyone seems to be glossing over is that if you don't have outside resources a 150k scholarship at NU means probably about 75-80k in debt (not 0) whereas a 75k grant at CLS means 150-160 in debt. True full rides where you have so little debt you can "strike out" and be okay or "walk away" are very rare.

Over the course of a successful career the extra 75k isnt hugely meaningful (you will make bigger investments - college for kids, a house etc.). If you are unsuccessful then you are pretty much screwed either way. It does seem to me if you end up in biglaw but don't last long, or get an LRAP eligible job but hate it, or end up in midlaw then that 75k difference will definitely be meaningful.

But CLS seems to have real advantages...

I don't think there is a wrong decision here. Thats what I decided after a lot of agonizing anyway, I hope I'm right.
Last edited by jtemp320 on Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bk1
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Re: Northwestern V NYU v Columbia

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:47 pm

thecilent wrote:Well if you are in chicago for three years, you are going to want to put some bids there I would imagine. If for nothing else than it is much easier to schedule and attend callbacks if the market is close to you. Flying out to NYC for all those callback interviews will take a toll. I would think you would want a fallback closer to your school.. This is also an advantage for the schools in nyc.. a lot easier to schedule and go to interviews and stuff when it's only a subway ride away..


I mean it's nice to not have to go far, but if OP really wants NYC I really don't see placing bids on anything on than NYC and definitely see OP going through the hassle because OP wants NYC.

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jtemp320
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Re: Northwestern V NYU v Columbia

Postby jtemp320 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:48 pm

bk1 wrote:
barry wrote:edit: you should add the NU deferred full ride no COL in the poll b/c i think that is what is skewing the results


OP said that CoL would be covered.

BrightLine wrote: I have an option that would cover the Northwestern living expenses. So it really would be ZERO debt


Reading comp fail...yeah in that case OP do what you want and don't let anyone on TLS tell you otherwise but its pretty hard to justify passing up truly ZERO debt at a T14...thats a hell of an option, one that I didn't have...

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thecilent
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Re: Northwestern V NYU v Columbia

Postby thecilent » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:52 pm

jtemp320 wrote:
bk1 wrote:
barry wrote:edit: you should add the NU deferred full ride no COL in the poll b/c i think that is what is skewing the results


OP said that CoL would be covered.

BrightLine wrote: I have an option that would cover the Northwestern living expenses. So it really would be ZERO debt


Reading comp fail...yeah in that case OP do what you want and don't let anyone on TLS tell you otherwise but its pretty hard to justify passing up truly ZERO debt at a T14...thats a hell of an option, one that I didn't have...

Yeah well lets not forget that the no debt thing is only bc he will be working for another year....

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jtemp320
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Re: Northwestern V NYU v Columbia

Postby jtemp320 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:57 pm

thecilent wrote:
jtemp320 wrote:
bk1 wrote:
barry wrote:edit: you should add the NU deferred full ride no COL in the poll b/c i think that is what is skewing the results


OP said that CoL would be covered.

BrightLine wrote: I have an option that would cover the Northwestern living expenses. So it really would be ZERO debt


Reading comp fail...yeah in that case OP do what you want and don't let anyone on TLS tell you otherwise but its pretty hard to justify passing up truly ZERO debt at a T14...thats a hell of an option, one that I didn't have...

Yeah well lets not forget that the no debt thing is only bc he will be working for another year....


I'm confused by this...

OP what exactly are your circumstances...are you a Chicago based ibanker (or something) who thinks you can save 75k in living expenses (COL for 3 years) by working one more year while deferred at NU? Or do you get outside support only if you stay in Chicago (would live with your parents or something?)...

If you really can save the full COL for three years of law school in one extra year at your job then giving up that job for law school anywhere is a gutsy move

09042014
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Re: Northwestern V NYU v Columbia

Postby 09042014 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:13 pm

ArchRoark wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:And to the person who said 160K/year in three years, that's not quite how it works. Most people only get a couple years in big law before you are booted.


Sorry to derail the thread, but how do people manage their sticker level debt after they leave biglaw? Most LRAPs I have seen only cover positions that are started immediately after graduating or after a 1-year clerkship. I know you are able to lateral to in-house/prestigious gov/etc after biglaw WE, but I am curious to what the average level of compensation these positions provide.

I would do NU full-ride, but I am heavily debt averse. You really can't go wrong with any of your options. Given your situation I could see a good argument for any of the options.


1) by paying down the debt faster than you have to while in big law

2) by getting a different fairly high paying job.

It's manageable but it's like BAM you'll be making 160K for the rest of your life no matter what. An awful lot of people got ITE pwned and laid off after a year of big law in 2008-2009.




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