Charlotte BigLaw vs. NYC BigLaw Forum

[Matteliszt]

Mattel, even 100K in Charlotte is a lot of money. That being said, there are nowhere near as many legal jobs available in Charlotte. However, there are nowhere near as many people competing for those same jobs. I think it would be interesting to see the percentage of people competing for Biglaw jobs in NY v. Charlotte.

Thank you Dre. Very helpful.

[RVP11]

Yeah, Charlotte's great. But good luck getting one of those BigLaw jobs there ITE. It would probably be a lot easier to get that $160k in NYC.

[ccs224]

I originally read this as Charlotte Bronte vs. NYC BigLaw and as much more excited.

You guys want to take it this direction? Charlotte Bronte was pretty sweet, I mean she was the eldest of the three Bronte sisters.

And really, Jane Eyre powned Wuthering Heights.

[Matteliszt]

Yeah, Charlotte's great. But good luck getting one of those BigLaw jobs there ITE

. It would probably be a lot easier to get that $160k in NYC.



Market is that much smaller?

[SimplyC26]

Yeah, Charlotte's great. But good luck getting one of those BigLaw jobs there ITE. It would probably be a lot easier to get that $160k in NYC.

Good point. My response is based on the assumption that an associate had landed two jobs with comparable salaries in these two respective cities. That said, someone in the 30th percentile range at a T14 should be able to land something pretty decent in a market like Charlotte.

[RVP11]

That said, someone in the 30th percentile range at a T14 should be able to land something pretty decent in a market like Charlotte.

30th percentile as in below median?

Someone with those grades shouldn't be relying on any one market in particular. And don't assume that just because it's a city in North Carolina that the firms there are not spoiled for choice with T14ers eager to come. It's not 2006 anymore.

[Kohinoor]

That said, someone in the 30th percentile range at a T14 should be able to land something pretty decent in a market like Charlotte.

30th percentile as in below median?

Someone with those grades shouldn't be relying on a[strike]ny one market in particular. And don't assume that just because it's a city in North Carolina that the[/strike]firm[strike]s there are not spoiled for choice with T14ers eager to come[/strike]. It's not 2006 anymore.

[RVP11]

Market is that much smaller?

I bet you could add up all the firm SA jobs paying $100k+ in the entire South and it wouldn't equal the number of $160k SA jobs in NYC. I don't have the time to research it, but it wouldn't surprise me if that's right.

[SimplyC26]

That said, someone in the 30th percentile range at a T14 should be able to land something pretty decent in a market like Charlotte.

30th percentile as in below median?

Someone with those grades shouldn't be relying on any one market in particular. And don't assume that just because it's a city in North Carolina that the firms there are not spoiled for choice with T14ers eager to come. It's not 2006 anymore.

lol I'm sorry (articulation fail). What I meant to say was in the top 30 percent. So I guess in the 70th percentile.

[RVP11]

That said, someone in the 30th percentile range at a T14 should be able to land something pretty decent in a market like Charlotte.

30th percentile as in below median?

Someone with those grades shouldn't be relying on any one market in particular. And don't assume that just because it's a city in North Carolina that the firms there are not spoiled for choice with T14ers eager to come. It's not 2006 anymore.

lol I'm sorry (articulation fail). What I meant to say was in the top 30 percent. So I guess in the 70th percentile.

Even at top 30% at a T14 you still might need to have some connection to Charlotte, to North Carolina, or to the region generally. And with so few big firms in the city there's a decent chance you could strike out. Again, with those grades it'd probably be a lot easier to get something in NYC.

[T5 Law Student]

I am a T5 rising 2L, just landed a job in Charlotte for next summer at major firm which I am taking over positions in NYC and Chicago.

The Charlotte legal market has recovered a great deal. For reference, most large area firms pay 145k, but 3 firms now pay 160k, one of which I will start at, which is in my view an unbeatable deal. The cultures seem better here and the base and bonus scales are identical, with most of the work being on national, holistically allocated clients, so you do not get the "less prestigious" or low profile deals.

Even at one of the more regional, 145k firms, opportunities are great, but the pay scale for raises is someone slower.

Having lived in NYC area before law school, it is a nightmare compared to Charlotte and the cost savings is almost too good to believe here. For those interested, top paying firms are Cadwalader W&T, Dechert, and Mayer Brown, all of which have pretty small offices. For those interested, good school and record obviously help but it's important to show strong narrative for NC connection.

[timbs4339]

IME, there are several reasons:

1) There are simply more job opportunities in NYC than anywhere else. The NYC megafirms at CLS EIP often bought 200 interviews and called back 1/3 of those people. Offices in even very large cities might buy 20 interviews and call back 2 people.
2) The firms in NYC are generally larger and have greater variety of work, especially on the corporate side. This is a double-edged sword- higher leverage and bigger deals means that juniors get slotted into doc review or diligence, whereas a smaller firm with less leverage might be more likely to give you whatever they feel you can handle. But law is still a highly prestige-driven profession populated by risk-averse people. It is seen as less risky to "keep the options open" with a larger firm and then lateral out to other areas around year 3.
3) For median students at top schools, firms in NYC are probably less selective than local firms. They also don't require ties.
4) NYC culture definitely plays a role. Most people understand that they'd get more for their buck in a better city, but are willing to take less to live in NYC. Part of this is assume you'll be working all the time anyway.

[dixiecupdrinking]

I am a T5 rising 2L, just landed a job in Charlotte for next summer at major firm which I am taking over positions in NYC and Chicago.

The Charlotte legal market has recovered a great deal. For reference, most large area firms pay 145k, but 3 firms now pay 160k, one of which I will start at, which is in my view an unbeatable deal. The cultures seem better here and the base and bonus scales are identical, with most of the work being on national, holistically allocated clients, so you do not get the "less prestigious" or low profile deals.

Even at one of the more regional, 145k firms, opportunities are great, but the pay scale for raises is someone slower.

Having lived in NYC area before law school, it is a nightmare compared to Charlotte and the cost savings is almost too good to believe here. For those interested, top paying firms are Cadwalader W&T, Dechert, and Mayer Brown, all of which have pretty small offices. For those interested, good school and record obviously help but it's important to show strong narrative for NC connection.

great post

[DebtMonkey]

Cost of living is a meaningful factor but debt load is also a meaningful factor. The repayments on $150k of debt are the same whether you live in NYC or a secondary market like Charlotte. You don't get a break because you live in a lower cost of living area. It's easier to repay very high debt loads with a higher salary and bonus structure. While a very few firms in Charlotte may pay $160 base, on average, living in Charlotte would require folks to talk longer to pay down their debt.

Plus, anecdotal evidence aside, people likely are skeptical that the work in Charlotte is -- and will be years into the future -- as sophisticated and well-compensated as that being done in NYC.

[baal hadad]

Cost of living is a meaningful factor but debt load is also a meaningful factor. The repayments on $150k of debt are the same whether you live in NYC or a secondary market like Charlotte. You don't get a break because you live in a lower cost of living area. It's easier to repay very high debt loads with a higher salary and bonus structure. While a very few firms in Charlotte may pay $160 base, on average, living in Charlotte would require folks to talk longer to pay down their debt.

Plus, anecdotal evidence aside, people likely are skeptical that the work in Charlotte is -- and will be years into the future -- as sophisticated and well-compensated as that being done in NYC.

The commas you will rearrange and binders you will create as a jr associate are much more sophisticated in NYC

[Nomo]

Charlotte seem to have been more willing to no offer entire classes or large chunks of their classes depending on firm needs (to the extent a class of less than 10 people can have a large chunk). If you added added up Charlotte firm offer rates for the past 5 years I think most would be around 70%. This isn't rare. Most regional firms and satellite offices do this. There is also the issue of compensation. I don't think all of the Charlotte firms give raises at the same rate as NY firms. A 5th year in NY might be making similar money to a new non-equity partner in Charlotte. And obviously Charlotte partners make far less than NY partners. So those are some downsides.