Chicago vs. Berkeley, desperate for advice

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Chicago vs. Berkeley

Chicago
21
68%
Berkeley
10
32%
 
Total votes: 31

mcabi
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Chicago vs. Berkeley, desperate for advice

Postby mcabi » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:43 am

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Last edited by mcabi on Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:21 am, edited 10 times in total.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Chicago vs. Berkeley, desperate for advice

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:48 am

Georgetown may be your best option based on your future plans. Your dreams of working in public interest & also working in biglaw suggest that you really have no idea what you want to do because essentially you are writing that you want to do everything. They only definite plans that you have are to attend law school far away from your boyfriend whom you intend to marry about 6 years from now. A reality check may be in order. Your boyfriend's dreams/fantasies are somewhat "pie in the sky" unrealistic, as well. After the first year of law school you should both be much more mature & realistic.

Rule11
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Re: Chicago vs. Berkeley, desperate for advice

Postby Rule11 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:02 am

Is UVA an option?

Also, is cost not an issue because someone else is paying, or because you just don't want to consider it right now? If the latter, that's a bad idea.

Chicago will give you a much better chance at a firm job (particularly in DC), which is what you will end up doing. Particularly if money is no object, you should do this. Don't go to Georgetown.

Rule11
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Re: Chicago vs. Berkeley, desperate for advice

Postby Rule11 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:03 am

CanadianWolf wrote:Georgetown may be your best option based on your future plans. Your dreams of working in public interest & also working in biglaw suggest that you really have no idea what you want to do because essentially you are writing that you want to do everything. They only definite plans that you have are to attend law school far away from your boyfriend whom you intend to marry about 6 years from now. A reality check may be in order. Your boyfriend's dreams/fantasies are somewhat "pie in the sky" unrealistic, as well. After the first year of law school you should both be much more mature & realistic.


Yeah, the boyfriend hasn't got a clue.

mcabi
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Re: Chicago vs. Berkeley, desperate for advice

Postby mcabi » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:08 am

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Last edited by mcabi on Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:21 am, edited 2 times in total.

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kwais
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Re: Chicago vs. Berkeley, desperate for advice

Postby kwais » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:10 am

Does anyone know if Berkeley's PI reputation is West Coast centered or does it also carry well to DC?

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OGR3
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Re: Chicago vs. Berkeley, desperate for advice

Postby OGR3 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:14 am

kwais wrote:Does anyone know if Berkeley's PI reputation is West Coast centered or does it also carry well to DC?


C.J. Cregg from The West Wing got a master's from Berkeley.

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Fresh
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Re: Chicago vs. Berkeley, desperate for advice

Postby Fresh » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:16 am

Poll Please
I would go to Chicago. Chicago <--> DC is much easier than Bay Area <--> DC. The stress of law school will be enough to hinder a relationship, and distance will only compound those problems; cross-country is a bad idea if this relationship is important to you.

Also, Chicago is making an earnest push to public interest. For example, they just came out with one of the best LRAPs (if not the best) and they are having incoming students sign a "pro-bono pledge" I think. I would talk to their admissions office for more details on their expanding public interest options.

edit: realistically you'll probably want to work at a firm (or clerk) immediately after law school - go to Chicago for this.

Also, it's weird that you got the WL at Georgetown but in @ Berk and Chi. Good luck!

HamDel
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Re: Chicago vs. Berkeley, desperate for advice

Postby HamDel » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:18 am

Either Chicago or Berkeley would be good. You would be crazy to go to Georgetown though, don't listen to that advice. Georgetown is fine, but they've been hit really hard by the economy and you will have a tough time getting a job coming out of there.

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kwais
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Re: Chicago vs. Berkeley, desperate for advice

Postby kwais » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:19 am

HamDel wrote:Either Chicago or Berkeley would be good. You would be crazy to go to Georgetown though, don't listen to that advice. Georgetown is fine, but they've been hit really hard by the economy and you will have a tough time getting a job coming out of there.


yikes, RC fail for everyone! Georgetown=not one of her choices

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Rotor
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Re: Chicago vs. Berkeley, desperate for advice

Postby Rotor » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:28 am

Rule11 wrote:Chicago will give you a much better chance at a firm job (particularly in DC), which is what you will end up doing. Particularly if money is no object, you should do this. Don't go to Georgetown.

Statistically, Chicago may have more who wind up in DC, howerver going to Berkeley will not impede you in going there. Everyone I know who wanted DC got DC--whether firm, govt or public interest. As for firms, I personally know people in my class going to Wilmer, Hogan & Lovells, Akin Gump, Jones Day, and (pretty sure) Crowell & Moring.

The question only you can answer is whether Boalt's advantages in those other areas (which I think are significant but likewise going to Chicago won't foreclose options) outweigh the advantage you might get for DC placement.

Edit to add: Making life choices for a boyfriend is not a great idea. Fiancé maybe; spouse OK. But until there is formal commitment by each of you, live your own life, achieve your own dreams, while keeping open to the relationship.

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: Chicago vs. Berkeley, desperate for advice

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:56 am

Rotor wrote:
Rule11 wrote:Chicago will give you a much better chance at a firm job (particularly in DC), which is what you will end up doing. Particularly if money is no object, you should do this. Don't go to Georgetown.

Statistically, Chicago may have more who wind up in DC, howerver going to Berkeley will not impede you in going there. Everyone I know who wanted DC got DC--whether firm, govt or public interest. As for firms, I personally know people in my class going to Wilmer, Hogan & Lovells, Akin Gump, Jones Day, and (pretty sure) Crowell & Moring.

The question only you can answer is whether Boalt's advantages in those other areas (which I think are significant but likewise going to Chicago won't foreclose options) outweigh the advantage you might get for DC placement.

Edit to add: Making life choices for a boyfriend is not a great idea. Fiancé maybe; spouse OK. But until there is formal commitment by each of you, live your own life, achieve your own dreams, while keeping open to the relationship.

Wait - are you suggesting that everyone who wanted a D.C. firm job from Boalt got one, or merely pointing out that people who may have wanted D.C. firm jobs were still able to get PI jobs in DC?

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paratactical
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Re: Chicago vs. Berkeley, desperate for advice

Postby paratactical » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:58 am

Go to whichever offers the most money and get a new boyfriend.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Chicago vs. Berkeley, desperate for advice

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:59 am

I suggested Georgetown as a wake-up call. I understand that it is not an option, but OP's only definite plan is to marry her boyfriend who will be attending Georgetown. They can grow together or grow apart was my point.

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Leira7905
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Re: Chicago vs. Berkeley, desperate for advice

Postby Leira7905 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:03 pm

paratactical wrote:Go to whichever offers the most money and get a new boyfriend.


+1. I'm sure your boyfriend is great and all, but you're not married yet! I don't think you should be basing your LS choices on what will work out best for your young relationship. Go where you think you'll be happiest, and let the chips fall where they may with the dude. :wink:

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Rotor
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Re: Chicago vs. Berkeley, desperate for advice

Postby Rotor » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:35 pm

FlightoftheEarls wrote:Wait - are you suggesting that everyone who wanted a D.C. firm job from Boalt got one, or merely pointing out that people who may have wanted D.C. firm jobs were still able to get PI jobs in DC?

sorry I was not clear. And admittedly this is anectotal since I don't know the job search history of every classmate. However, those I know who wanted DC firms got DC firms. Those I know who wanted Govt in DC got Govt in DC, etc.

I'm not trying to suggest that Boalt to DC > Chicago to DC, but I think Boalt's ABILITY to go east is seriously underestimated by TLS.

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: Chicago vs. Berkeley, desperate for advice

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:27 pm

Rotor wrote:
FlightoftheEarls wrote:Wait - are you suggesting that everyone who wanted a D.C. firm job from Boalt got one, or merely pointing out that people who may have wanted D.C. firm jobs were still able to get PI jobs in DC?

sorry I was not clear. And admittedly this is anectotal since I don't know the job search history of every classmate. However, those I know who wanted DC firms got DC firms. Those I know who wanted Govt in DC got Govt in DC, etc.

Yeah, that's what I was afraid you were suggesting. I think that it is an incredibly disingenuous statement of your school's placement ability to suggest to 0Ls that every person you know who wanted a DC firm was able to get one. There are enormous qualifications that should be attached to that statement, regardless of what school you go to (except Yale, and maybe Stanford). I would wager that the people you know who expressed a desire to go to a D.C. firm were all in the top 25% of the class and therefore expressed that interest because they knew it was possible. I doubt many people who were well below median were clamoring about their desire to work in D.C. (or at SullCrom in NYC, or to land a Kozinski clerkship), because nobody likes to openly state goals that they already know are unattainable.

Now, I don't want to suggest that's unique to Berkeley; I think it's the exact same situation at Chicago (and obviously at Michigan, for that matter). I just think the purpose of your post was to suggest to 0Ls that, as far as you have seen, Berkeley with a desire for a DC firm job = DC firm job; it doesn't, and I am kind of surprised by such an unqualified statement.

Rotor wrote:I'm not trying to suggest that Boalt to DC > Chicago to DC, but I think Boalt's ABILITY to go east is seriously underestimated by TLS.

This is an entirely different issue from what was said above, but I completely agree with you here.

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Ziva
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Re: Chicago vs. Berkeley, desperate for advice

Postby Ziva » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:59 pm

OP doesn't seem to be saying that her boyfriend will affect her decision either way. Her primary interest seems well placed in job placement. Telling her to break up with him = not constructive.

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Leira7905
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Re: Chicago vs. Berkeley, desperate for advice

Postby Leira7905 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:09 pm

Ziva wrote:OP doesn't seem to be saying that her boyfriend will affect her decision either way. Her primary interest seems well placed in job placement. Telling her to break up with him = not constructive.

OP states that she would prefer East Coast because of her boyfriend. I think bf should be a non-issue. That's just my opinion. not saying she should break up with him, just that removing that variable from her decision making could make her choice easier, and perhaps lead to a better decision.

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Ziva
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Re: Chicago vs. Berkeley, desperate for advice

Postby Ziva » Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:17 pm

mcabi wrote:Hello everyone! I've been a TLS lurker for a while, but this is my first time posting. Looking forward to getting some great answers from all of you :)

Okay, so I'm deciding between UChicago and UC Berkeley. First, money is not an issue. I'm only concerned with going to the school that will give me the best opportunities, regardless of cost. Right now, I'm pretty sure I want to do public interest. However, I want to keep an open mind. What I ultimately decide to do may change, but I am very passionate about social justice and helping others. I am interested in working with Latino/immigration issues, but I also know that this is somewhat narrow and would be open to doing other types of public interest work.

This may seem like I'm completely changing gears, but I also want to try an elite law firm job for the experience and to see what it's like, so I would like to go to the school that can also give me this option (by placing well in private law firms) in the off chance I decide to take the law firm route. That being said, I would like to go to the school that will allow me to be exposed to various areas of law through clinics, journals, broad course offerings etc., so that I can explore my interests and hone in on them while in law school.

As far as location, I am not absolutely opposed to living in California, but I would prefer to live in the east coast. My boyfriend, whom I would like to settle down with a couple of years after law school, will be attending Georgetown Law. He wants to do appellate advocacy and dreams with working in the U.S. Supreme Court or D.C. Circuit (one can dream). His career goals indicate that he should remain in the D.C. area. I, on the other hand, am much more flexible in terms of location and would try to get a job wherever he has the most opportunities. This is why I want to go to the school that is more national and also feeds well into the D.C. area.

I will end by mentioning that I have visited both schools. Chicago is very prestigious and reputable, which is really appealing, but not so strong on public interest. I believe that I may be more happy and have a better quality of life at Berkeley. I also believe that I will have more support at Berkeley because of the school's commitment to public interest and social justice. But I don't want to be near-sighted and choose Berkeley only because I would be happy there for three years. My priority is not where I will be comfortable or happy for three years, my priority is attending the law school that will give me the best options and opportunities for what I'm interested in and help me out in the long run.

Well that's about it. Sorry for such a long explanation, but I wanted to be as specific as possible to enable all of you to give me the best advice. Thank you so much for your help. I've been killing myself over these options for many days now and am desperate for some guidance.


OP seems willing to wait to be with her bf and attend the best law school for her at this time...but I would agree in general that bf/gfs don't belong in the law school decision process unless there is a serious commitment.

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Leira7905
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Re: Chicago vs. Berkeley, desperate for advice

Postby Leira7905 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:24 pm

Ziva wrote:
mcabi wrote:Hello everyone! I've been a TLS lurker for a while, but this is my first time posting. Looking forward to getting some great answers from all of you :)

Okay, so I'm deciding between UChicago and UC Berkeley. First, money is not an issue. I'm only concerned with going to the school that will give me the best opportunities, regardless of cost. Right now, I'm pretty sure I want to do public interest. However, I want to keep an open mind. What I ultimately decide to do may change, but I am very passionate about social justice and helping others. I am interested in working with Latino/immigration issues, but I also know that this is somewhat narrow and would be open to doing other types of public interest work.

This may seem like I'm completely changing gears, but I also want to try an elite law firm job for the experience and to see what it's like, so I would like to go to the school that can also give me this option (by placing well in private law firms) in the off chance I decide to take the law firm route. That being said, I would like to go to the school that will allow me to be exposed to various areas of law through clinics, journals, broad course offerings etc., so that I can explore my interests and hone in on them while in law school.

As far as location, I am not absolutely opposed to living in California, but I would prefer to live in the east coast. My boyfriend, whom I would like to settle down with a couple of years after law school, will be attending Georgetown Law. He wants to do appellate advocacy and dreams with working in the U.S. Supreme Court or D.C. Circuit (one can dream). His career goals indicate that he should remain in the D.C. area. I, on the other hand, am much more flexible in terms of location and would try to get a job wherever he has the most opportunities. This is why I want to go to the school that is more national and also feeds well into the D.C. area.

I will end by mentioning that I have visited both schools. Chicago is very prestigious and reputable, which is really appealing, but not so strong on public interest. I believe that I may be more happy and have a better quality of life at Berkeley. I also believe that I will have more support at Berkeley because of the school's commitment to public interest and social justice. But I don't want to be near-sighted and choose Berkeley only because I would be happy there for three years. My priority is not where I will be comfortable or happy for three years, my priority is attending the law school that will give me the best options and opportunities for what I'm interested in and help me out in the long run.

Well that's about it. Sorry for such a long explanation, but I wanted to be as specific as possible to enable all of you to give me the best advice. Thank you so much for your help. I've been killing myself over these options for many days now and am desperate for some guidance.


OP seems willing to wait to be with her bf and attend the best law school for her at this time...but I would agree in general that bf/gfs don't belong in the law school decision process unless there is a serious commitment.



That's some selective reading there, Ziva..... Are you OP's boyfriend????

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Ziva
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Re: Chicago vs. Berkeley, desperate for advice

Postby Ziva » Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:31 pm

That's some selective reading there, Ziva..... Are you OP's boyfriend????[/quote]

Not OP's bf, I just think that it's unnecessary for people to jump on her for having her bf as a post law school consideration when
1) she said she'd rather live on the east coast anyway
2) got into two great schools, both of which she likes for different reasons
3) wants to do PI, the center of which is in...DC! Where her bf is.

Don't mean to be argumentative. Just think that people should respect other's priorities even if they don't share them.




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